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Ski edge angle 88/89?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Hi All, 

 

I was recently embarrassed in the ski shop when I was buying a sharpening file for minor touch ups when I asked the ski shop owner what the difference was between an edge angle of 88 and 89 degrees.  His answer was that I didn't have enough experience to tell the difference anyway so not to worry about it.

 

So, clearly, i don't have that experience because otherwise I wouldn't be asking that question, but that was a little harsh i thought.  Anyway, can anyone please tell me what the difference is?  Also, how do I tell what angle they are currently at (besides breaking out my protractor...)?  Are different angles better for different types of skies or skiing?  For reference the ski in question is a Sultan Legend 94 at 178cm.

 

All I want to do is clean up the edges very slightly where I hit some rocks but I don't want to mess up the angle of the edge.

 

Thanks!

-ian.

post #2 of 22

Most skis comes from the factory with a 2 degree side bevel (88 degrees) and a 1 degree base (89)an exception is Atomic which has a 3 degree side 1 degree base.I believe dynaster is 2side 1 base.

Depeding how bad your edges are you may only need a good medium diamond stone in a adjustable side edge/base  bevel file holder run it tip to tail a couple of bases to knck down the burrs . Hold file work to really need it. I deburr my skis every day and wax with swix F4 till tune up time . If your going to get a stone grind you could go to .5degree base and maybe a 1.5 or 2 degree side and ski with that you can alway increase it to a.5 increase to sharpen the edges after they start to dull up. You will be surprised at how long you can maintain a tune

post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the reply powderkid.  I must try and get a diamond stone instead.  I want to start servicing my gear (but not destroying my skis).  Luckily i have a repaired ski on which I blew the edge on some nasty stones, so i'll practice on them first.

post #4 of 22

Ian

 

The more angle the sharper the ski feels but the quicker the edge dulls.  I personally have 88 degree side angle (others call 2 degree) but many have been urging 87 degrees.   A freshly tuned ski at 87 degrees should hold better than a freshly tuned ski at 88, etc...

 

When tuning your own skis there are a couple things to be aware of with this.  More angle means more likelihood of your files/stones hitting sidewall when tuning.  (ie. 88 more likely than 89, etc).  When the file/stone is contacting the sidewall it tends not to work very well against the edge itself.  Therefore tuning 89 degrees is often easier than 88 or 87 for that reason.  I use a sidewall remover when this occurs to tabke back the sidewall a bit.  Note also that some brands of skis this is more a problem than others.

 

Hope this helps

 

Mike

post #5 of 22



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikehoyt View Post

Ian

 

The more angle the sharper the ski feels but the quicker the edge dulls.  Old wives tale! Not true!

post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Davies View Post

Thanks for the reply powderkid.  I must try and get a diamond stone instead.  I want to start servicing my gear (but not destroying my skis).  Luckily i have a repaired ski on which I blew the edge on some nasty stones, so i'll practice on them first.



Luckily?

post #7 of 22

Several years ago I changed the side bevel on my Head iC180's from the factory 1 degree to 2.  It made a noticeable difference with edge hold, especially on mid-Atlantic hardpack and ice.  

post #8 of 22

Unless your supper newbie, just go with a 1 base and 2 side.

post #9 of 22

VailSnoPro gave a presentation at an ESA many years ago that pretty clearly demonstrated that 3 degree side and 1 degree base was an optimal starting point for most skiers. Those that want to adjust from there can experiment, but the extra degree actually buys you quite a bit in terms of edge hold (demonstrated by his geometry and diagrams!) and isn't an issue for durability on modern skis. I've been running all my skis at 1/3 since and appreciate the hold...

post #10 of 22

Steve for President!biggrin.gif No,  maybe ruler of the World!!!!yahoo.gifAlthough I would say to start at a .5 degree base bevel since you never want more then 1 degree and you can't decrease base edge bevel w/o a stone grind you are better off starting with less and increasing to .7 and then 1 to see if you liike .5 or.7

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post

VailSnoPro gave a presentation at an ESA many years ago that pretty clearly demonstrated that 3 degree side and 1 degree base was an optimal starting point for most skiers. Those that want to adjust from there can experiment, but the extra degree actually buys you quite a bit in terms of edge hold (demonstrated by his geometry and diagrams!) and isn't an issue for durability on modern skis. I've been running all my skis at 1/3 since and appreciate the hold...

post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post

VailSnoPro gave a presentation at an ESA many years ago that pretty clearly demonstrated that 3 degree side and 1 degree base was an optimal starting point for most skiers. Those that want to adjust from there can experiment, but the extra degree actually buys you quite a bit in terms of edge hold (demonstrated by his geometry and diagrams!) and isn't an issue for durability on modern skis. I've been running all my skis at 1/3 since and appreciate the hold...


 

Anywhere I can find a copy of VailSnoPro's presentation material that you mentioned? Love to read it.
 

post #12 of 22

Don't have VSP's but read this.

 

By Mike DeSantis
http://www.skimd.com/parameters.php

 

but read his bio first!

 

http://www.skimd.com/bio.php

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scavenger View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post

VailSnoPro gave a presentation at an ESA many years ago that pretty clearly demonstrated that 3 degree side and 1 degree base was an optimal starting point for most skiers. Those that want to adjust from there can experiment, but the extra degree actually buys you quite a bit in terms of edge hold (demonstrated by his geometry and diagrams!) and isn't an issue for durability on modern skis. I've been running all my skis at 1/3 since and appreciate the hold...


 

Anywhere I can find a copy of VailSnoPro's presentation material that you mentioned? Love to read it.
 

post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Don't have VSP's but read this.

 

By Mike DeSantis
http://www.skimd.com/parameters.php

 

but read his bio first!

 

http://www.skimd.com/bio.php

 


 



Many thanks.

post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post


VailSnoPro gave a presentation at an ESA many years ago that pretty clearly demonstrated that 3 degree side and 1 degree base was an optimal starting point for most skiers. Those that want to adjust from there can experiment, but the extra degree actually buys you quite a bit in terms of edge hold (demonstrated by his geometry and diagrams!) and isn't an issue for durability on modern skis. I've been running all my skis at 1/3 since and appreciate the hold...




 




Hi Steve (everyone),

You can find that presentation on the EpicSki Academy website here: A Different Angle on Ski Tuning

Click the image to download the powerpoint presentation.

Best regards,

Chris

 

post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Davies View Post

Hi All, 

 

I was recently embarrassed in the ski shop when I was buying a sharpening file for minor touch ups when I asked the ski shop owner what the difference was between an edge angle of 88 and 89 degrees.  His answer was that I didn't have enough experience to tell the difference anyway so not to worry about it.

 

So, clearly, i don't have that experience because otherwise I wouldn't be asking that question, but that was a little harsh i thought.  Anyway, can anyone please tell me what the difference is?  Also, how do I tell what angle they are currently at (besides breaking out my protractor...)?  Are different angles better for different types of skies or skiing?  For reference the ski in question is a Sultan Legend 94 at 178cm.

 

All I want to do is clean up the edges very slightly where I hit some rocks but I don't want to mess up the angle of the edge.

 

Thanks!

-ian.



Wow that person was a real ass!  You have way more balls than him for asking here.  Hat's off to you! 

 

I think you got you answers already, but I'll tell you a 1 base, and a 3 side will do you fine.  I do many rail riders who want a 2 degree base.  They carve them fine.  But if your not doing rails, and boxes don't do a 2 degree base!  Good luck to you!

post #16 of 22

^^ Yeah, it was a pretty unthoughtful thing for him to say.  If you were skiing on hardpack, you would definitely notice a difference, no matter how skilled you were or were not. 

Playing devil's advocate, he probably was thinking along the lines that if you are skiing in deep soft snow (where I would be skiing with a 94 mm wide ski), the the edge tune wouldn't make much difference.  Still you may as well use the same angle to touch it up as was used to tune it in the first place. It seems pretty unprofessional to suggest otherwise.

post #17 of 22

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Davies View Post

Hi All, 

 

I was recently embarrassed in the ski shop when I was buying a sharpening file for minor touch ups when I asked the ski shop owner what the difference was between an edge angle of 88 and 89 degrees.  His answer was that I didn't have enough experience to tell the difference anyway so not to worry about it.

 

So, clearly, i don't have that experience because otherwise I wouldn't be asking that question, but that was a little harsh i thought.  Anyway, can anyone please tell me what the difference is?  Also, how do I tell what angle they are currently at (besides breaking out my protractor...)?  Are different angles better for different types of skies or skiing?  For reference the ski in question is a Sultan Legend 94 at 178cm.

 

All I want to do is clean up the edges very slightly where I hit some rocks but I don't want to mess up the angle of the edge.

 

Thanks!

-ian.



Wow that person was a real ass!  You have way more balls than him for asking here.  Hat's off to you! 

 

I think you got you answers already, but I'll tell you a 1 base, and a 3 side will do you fine.  I do many rail riders who want a 2 degree base.  They carve them fine.  But if your not doing rails, and boxes don't do a 2 degree base!  Good luck to you!


Actually, IIRC, Toni Sears was playing with very high edge bevel angles (2-3 degrees?), and he can certainly arc them!

 

See? ...

 

89962e0b_md.jpg

post #18 of 22



Another sweet Barnes photo!  Yes, the arc of the skis can clearly be seen!


"Actually, IIRC, Toni Sears was playing with very high edge bevel angles (2-3 degrees?), and he can certainly arc them!"

 

See? ...

 

89962e0b_md.jpg

post #19 of 22
It was high base bevels at that time, right? I seem to recall hearing that a few years back.

Toni is currently skiing 0/7 on his slalom skis.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post

 


Actually, IIRC, Toni Sears was playing with very high edge bevel angles (2-3 degrees?), and he can certainly arc them!

 

See? ...

 

89962e0b_md.jpg



 

post #20 of 22

Help...is 0 a high base bevel and really a 7 side bevel? I wonder how they ski? Thanks for the help.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgeib View Post


It was high base bevels at that time, right? I seem to recall hearing that a few years back.

Toni is currently skiing 0/7 on his slalom skis.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post

 


Actually, IIRC, Toni Sears was playing with very high edge bevel angles (2-3 degrees?), and he can certainly arc them!

 

See? ...

 

89962e0b_md.jpg



 

post #21 of 22

high base bevels are damn sweet for off trail skiing. with enough side edge the ski will still GS turn groomers but will feel very slippery at the beginnering and ending of the turn.

post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post

Help...is 0 a high base bevel...
 




No, 0 or Flat is not a high base bevel.

This was in comparison to the 2-4 degree base bevel referenced in the past, which most would consider to be high base bevel angles.
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