LINE skis>>I am disappointed with the quality....

So how do you really feel? 

Strange.  I've had a pair of Line skis (Skogen Sprang Pro 176cm) for ~7 years or so, and they are still looking pretty good considering the rocks and trees they have seen.  Does anyone know if they changed manufacturing locations?  Mine say Made In Canada. 

In fact, the only part that has failed is the decorative clear acryllic on the left rear binding (right where you push with your pole to pop the binding off, model is Look Pivot 10) cracked and fell off, but the only problem that creates is you can't actually read the DIN setting for the rear, you have to match turn for turn with the right one and measure how far up the slot the DIN indicator is with a ruler or something.  Granted these skis just don't grip like  the Atomics I picked up in December that replaced these as my go-to ski, but I haven't really had a problem with quality.

Line is a fairly new, fairly low priced, fairly majorly outsourced, piece of crap ski. you got what you paid for and should have thought about buyi ng something from a major ski company instead before you bought from Line. I strongly dislike new ski companies that outsource all their production,  and consider them totally inferior. your experience just bears that out. Line has had issues from the very first ski they made. why do people support these companies? un-f'ing, believable.  shop with your intelligence and your conscience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

   

Line is a fairly new, fairly low priced, fairly majorly outsourced, piece of crap ski. you got what you paid for and should have thought about buyi ng something from a major ski company instead before you bought from Line. I strongly dislike new ski companies that outsource all their production,  and consider them totally inferior. your experience just bears that out. Line has had issues from the very first ski they made. why do people support these companies? un-f'ing, believable.  shop with your intelligence and your conscience.

Line is owned by K2.  They are made in China.

Volkl is owned by, well, Volkl.  They are made in China as well.

I see your point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indus 

Strange.  I've had a pair of Line skis (Skogen Sprang Pro 176cm) for ~7 years or so, and they are still looking pretty good considering the rocks and trees they have seen.  Does anyone know if they changed manufacturing locations?  Mine say Made In Canada. 

Line originally contracted with Karhu to make their skis.  Like everyone else they decided to move their manufacturing to China.  The first year batch out of China was a disaster with many skis not salable forcing Line to go under.  K2 bought what was left of the brand.

Yeah Line has hardly ever been known as a quality product.  They build cheap throw away skis for park rats and always have.  For Park Rats that beat up equipment, that's ok.  For somebody that wants a pair to look nice and last a long time, not so much.  Their very first skis, the 1260 and Ostness Dragon, had bad problems with the top sheet chipping, and edges falling out.  The Skogens, at least during the first gen, still had the edges falling out, although the top sheet was ok since it was capped.  I think they solved the edge problem in subsequent years.  The only Lines I've known anybody to ski in recent years are, ironically, both Chronics and Masterminds, and they do usually look beat up as you describe.  However, judging from comments on here, people think very highly of the Prophet series, though I don't know anybody personally that skis them that can vouch they don't fall apart.  I looked at some Sir Francis Bacons and EP Pro's in a store recently.  They looked like nice skis, but somehow still look slightly inferior to everything else out there.  I couldn't pinpoint why, probably just skepticism about them because of all the previous models I've seen destroyed.

Volkl is owned by K2. Some product is made in China, some in various former Red Curtain countries, and some still in Germany.

Honestly, I also wonder about the China reference. Great product can be built there. Junk can be built there. The fact that it is China is not relevant.  Is this just an opportunity for China bashing?

fwiw, K2 Sports has some pretty impressive test/QA facilities.

FWIW....my Italian built Harts are leaps and bounds better quality than my Chinese built Harts. 

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Originally Posted by FujativeOCR 

FWIW....my Italian built Harts are leaps and bounds better quality than my Chinese built Harts. 

Which has nothing to do with anything. Really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindrift 

Quote:

Originally Posted by FujativeOCR 

FWIW....my Italian built Harts are leaps and bounds better quality than my Chinese built Harts. 

Which has nothing to do with anything. Really.

That's why I said FWIW.  And since we're discussing Chinese quality, it has something to do with this thread.

Manufacturers in China can deliver great quality. And they can deliver junk. There is no such thing as "Chinese quality". It is that simple. Honestly. People who try to claim otherwise are usually either not very informed or have a political agenda or both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindrift 

Manufacturers in China can deliver great quality. And they can deliver junk. There is no such thing as "Chinese quality". It is that simple. Honestly. People who try to claim otherwise are usually either not very informed or have a political agenda or both.

So where's the reputation come from?

volkl has earned no respect from me with Gotama and Katana, so yeah, it makes sense they have many models made in china. they are the pieces of sh&% out there that say engineered in Germany, or don't say anything at all, in all respects.  I have no f'ing agenda beyond skiing on nice skis.

so, yeah, name one great chinese ski. Line is made in China. How could that not be relevant to this thread.

Spin, is there a shred of objectivity in your support for anything longer than it is wide? If you say everything is awesome, what meaning can that have? If I say everything is crap, what meaning does that have, I get it.

Best and strongest DH bikes I've ever owned were made in China, by Pacific ( the wal-mart $100 bike brand).

They can do  great work, but are told not to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FujativeOCR 

So where's the reputation come from?

 

We are heading out of the realm of discussing skis & Line in particular. But the short answer is that the reputation comes largely from a combination of politics, ignorance and fear. Again - to be clear, there is no one generalization that applies. But for examples of top notch product, take a look at an iPhone... Or if you want, go to Beijing or Shanghai and take a close look at a GM car made in China. You will be amazed. 

The mere fact that China is being mentioned in this thread is sad - and a distraction from any possible real issues related to skis. 

so, so, so sad. crap! I should care precisely why?? it's not that hard to talk about the skis.....though not worth  the time. take a look at a baby crib that strangles babies or a baby monitor that burns them alive in their sleep, or a package of dog food that kills your pet, or painted wooden trains coated with lead, skis that won't hold a binding or have cheap top sheet design, that delaminate, or crack into pieces. not relevant what they could do with ski production, as much as what they do...I don't see why I shouldn't do what ever I can to hurt their industry with the truth; they have it coming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian 

Line is owned by K2.  They are made in China.

 

Volkl is owned by, well, Volkl.  They are made in China as well.

 

I see your point.

Volkl is owned by K2. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spindrift 

Quote:

Originally Posted by FujativeOCR 

So where's the reputation come from?

 

We are heading out of the realm of discussing skis & Line in particular. But the short answer is that the reputation comes largely from a combination of politics, ignorance and fear. Again - to be clear, there is no one generalization that applies. But for examples of top notch product, take a look at an iPhone... Or if you want, go to Beijing or Shanghai and take a close look at a GM car made in China. You will be amazed. 

 

The mere fact that China is being mentioned in this thread is sad - and a distraction from any possible real issues related to skis. 

iPhone is made in China?  No wonder the dang thing doesn't work half the time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by solamentej 

Hello to all in the forum.....just purchased 2 pairs of LINE skis...

 

Line Mastermind...for my kid

Line Chronics..as a "fun" skis for dad...for the EAST

 

even though they feel "nice and easy" under the foot....the QUALITY>>>

well...just read here my letter to LINE SKIS ( attached below):

 

 

 Hello to ALL @ LINE skis

 

Just wanted to let you know that I have purchased 2 pairs of LINE skis from 2 different online US dealers recently...and I am very disappointed with the quality of your product ??!!

 

I have purchased LINE mastermind 157 for my kid and LINE Chronic twin tips for some "fun" skiing in the East...as both pairs are not wide enough for the West...

Anyway...to make the story short...we like the handling of the skis..BUT the quality of the product, ESPECIALLY the top sheet of the skis is the WORST from all the skis we have ever had...and we did try many skis...Atomic X models, Atomic GS Race models, Head supershapes, Head junior race, Head Xenons, Volkl Wall, Dynastar Contacts, Head i-chip 1400>>>FROM ALL OF THESE SKIS..YOUR TOP SHEET AND SIDE WALL QUALITY IS THE WORST>>>just after 3 trips to the hills/mountains>>>your skis look worse than my 3 year old HEAD's or Dynastar's ????!!!!!!!

 

Just wonder...do you have any quality control in place over the product with your name on it..which leaves those Chinese factories...and arriving here in North America.....it's a shame, I have to say, since the skis feel good under the foot...BUT WILL NOT EVEN last ONE SEASON>>>

I will not be able to recommend LINE skis to anybody..and I might go even one step further, and warn all the ski enthusiast on their forums about my "encounters" with the LINE product..

 

Please, do something about the quality of your skis...I might not get any help or much enjoyment from LINE skis..but hopefully...future customers will be happier and will come back to you..BUT I will have to look for a new pair of skis very soon...and those will have to be skis with NO “ LINE” name, deep chips and scratches on their top sheets !!!!

 

With regards,

 Disappointed customer

 James C.

 

  

It's not that the topsheets chip when you ski them, it's that you can't ski, and the topsheets prove it.

There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. And your typical Davluri drivel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FujativeOCR 

Yeah Line has hardly ever been known as a quality product.  They build cheap throw away skis for park rats and always have.  For Park Rats that beat up equipment, that's ok.  For somebody that wants a pair to look nice and last a long time, not so much.  Their very first skis, the 1260 and Ostness Dragon, had bad problems with the top sheet chipping, and edges falling out.  The Skogens, at least during the first gen, still had the edges falling out, although the top sheet was ok since it was capped.  I think they solved the edge problem in subsequent years.  The only Lines I've known anybody to ski in recent years are, ironically, both Chronics and Masterminds, and they do usually look beat up as you describe.  However, judging from comments on here, people think very highly of the Prophet series, though I don't know anybody personally that skis them that can vouch they don't fall apart.  I looked at some Sir Francis Bacons and EP Pro's in a store recently.  They looked like nice skis, but somehow still look slightly inferior to everything else out there.  I couldn't pinpoint why, probably just skepticism about them because of all the previous models I've seen destroyed.

How old are your examples? 8 years?

Let me get this straight.  The OP is all in a lather because his top sheets look like crap.  So much so that he won't ski the skis anymore?  Nothing was said about any quality that counts like delamination, edges coming off, base material blistering, etc.  Maybe I'm just an old geezer that doesn't give a damn about looks, but if the ski works, ski it and quit yer bitchin'.   If it doesn't, let us know what is wrong with it.  

I've skied the last 4 winters with P-100's and the SFB (last year's model, pre-rocker). I've had thrills and spills, as well as some successful rock hunting, and the damage I've seen is nothing I would consider unreasonable.

For example, both skis have a couple of gashes on the top sheets. But, this is not at all unexpected given the crashes (and sharpened edges) that caused them. And, despite the number of rocks I've hit, I've yet to get a proper core shot or blown edge; nothing has made it all the way through the base or has done significant damage to the edges.

I'm not saying they're indestructible; but they've held up well for me and I really like how they ski.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FujativeOCR 

So where's the reputation come from?

It's pretty simple if you stop and think about it.

Companies only move their manufacturing to China in order to save money, because they want to make as much profit as possible. As part of the move, the companies tell the new factories to make the goods as cheaply as possible, setting minimum materials and manufacturing standards and maximum cost limits. The factories simply manufacture the products according to the standards they are given.

So, it all comes down to the companies and the standards they lay out for their products. Some companies set higher standards, but unfortunately many do not because they are greedy. But, instead of blaming the greedy companies that set low standards, consumers blame the Chinese factories for following the standards they are given.

Your logic is off  - all companies have profit motives are are trying to minimize cost/maximize sales.  We have all seen shoddy products made in every country.

The problem with much Chinese manufacturing is that the factory is a separately operated Chinese company that has its own profit goals.  This is partially caused by laws in China that require business to be owned by the Chinese and severely limiting foreign business from opening and running a factory.  So lets say K2 goes to a factory in China, provides a ski mold, and orders 100K pairs at a particular price based on certain materials, K2 may lack the oversight with that factory to prevent additional cost cutting  (such as substandard materials and finishings).  There are fabulous products made in China, but there is also a culture acceptance (even admiration) of success through tricking others.  Obviously, if the resulting product is substandard, the ski company may move to another Chinese factory, but in the meanwhile, a year of inventory is lost and someone in China has pocketed a lot of profit.

hey, hey, hey ec. did Line not start life on this planet as a company by having to recall their entire production. real solid. you bet. probably awesome for you, ec, so they serve a purpose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

hey, hey, hey ec. did Line not start life on this planet as a company by having to recall their entire production. real solid. you bet. probably awesome for you, ec, so they serve a purpose.

How long ago was that again? At least bring up something relevant to today other than chipped topsheets because people can't ski. BTW I don't know how it can be awesome for me. I don't even ski Line's. I'm on some shitty ski's from a crappy idie company that hasn't recieved awesome reviews of performance, build quality, and finish.

A top sheet decoration your worried about?  Who cares what the top looks like.  If it's a good ski, why worry.  You seem too concerned with fashion.  I know some folks with those Line skis, and they all seem to like them.  Good luck to you.