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Bumps on base NOT under binding

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
While ironing wax, I noticed 3 bumps on my base, in an elongated triangle formation. They look like grey rings around dark dots when wet. These bumps are about 6 inches from the front of the binding, ruling out the posibility of binding screws. The skis are 3YO Dynastar Contact, and I have the base flattened when I got them. I do my own edge maintenance but rarely touch the base. It has been three weeks since I last waxed.
 
Any idea what might have cause this? My thought is that I might have scrapped off too much ptex around the bumps causing the uneven surface the last time I waxed? I didn't think that was possible until I got my daughter a pair of used skis this year and while hot-scrapping it, it felt like I could scrap off all the ptex if I kept going, judging by the amount of black gunk coming off. The iron was not too hot, and definitely not smoking.
 
I have sanded the bumps down this time, followed by steel brush for structure and rewaxed. Is that a good enough fix? Or would I have to worry about something more structural?
 
Thanks in advance.
post #2 of 21

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post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 

Here are some post-wax, post-brush shots... I am shocked as I found more bumps on both the Dynastar. Also tuned and waxed my wife's pair and they came out fine... Time for a stone ground?

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post #4 of 21

what iron did you use to wax the ski?

 

Looks like you got the ski too hot.

post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

what iron did you use to wax the ski?

 

Looks like you got the ski too hot.



Maplus Ski & Snowboard iron 

265x265px-LS-KZ05000_up.gif

 

set at 130, (it goes up to 160). Like I mentioned earlier, never experienced any smoking, and I haven't changed the settings in 2 years. But today I used the cold wax alone (-15°C to -5°C), usually, I usually do a mix of cold and warm (-5°C to 0°C) wax (both Maplus Universal Solid).

 

 

 

post #6 of 21

All of our Dominator Wax says MAX. Temp. 120 C./250 F I use a TOKO digital iron

 

 At 130 C if you left the iron in one place too long or conitnually moved it over & over the same area you may have overheated the base. Also your iron could have malfuntioned or is running warmer then the knob says.  Since you have no real way of knowing what the actual temperature is. But that sure as hell looks like the plastic bubbled from heat!

 

Race Place has the T14 1200 wat digital TOKO for $119.95. Seems like a pretty good price.

 

http://www.the-raceplace.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=3078Z

post #7 of 21

+1 on the iron/base got too hot.  Those look like bubbles that formed from the contact cement or resin under the p-tex getting too hot. 

post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

+1 on the iron/base got too hot.  Those look like bubbles that formed from the contact cement or resin under the p-tex getting too hot. 



Yes.

BTW, this^ type of damage is /far/ more likely if the bases are thin, i.e. if those 3-year-old Contacts have been systematically ground (read: several times) or maniacally ground (read: a gorilla, once).
post #9 of 21

Those skis need replacing, but you might be able to heat up the afflicted area with a heat gun then clamp a board over it to flatten it back out some.

post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thank you all for your input. The base has never been stone ground since the factory ground. I am willing to accept heat being the cause. But is there a fix? flattening by scraping off/sanding?...a full on stone ground? Or crgildart's board clamping is the only option? I am going to try that all the same and report back. Thanks again

post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Those skis need replacing, but you might be able to heat up the afflicted area with a heat gun then clamp a board over it to flatten it back out some.



It works. A little heat, 2 pieces of flat plywood, and several clamps. I don't know how permanent the fix is and will watch out when I rewax it. (I am now scared to think about waxing!) Thanks crgidart

post #12 of 21

Bummer skid. Hopefully your fix holds up, but it may not be permanent. I doubt your skis are destroyed, but I'm sure the confidence is reduced considerably.

 

FWIW, I've used the same iron for years with zero problems. If the wax wasn't smoking, it's hard to conclusively say the heat was too excessive versus some defect or something (or additive somethings) that happened previously that contributed to a failure.

 

If the bubbles reappear, some successful fixes include:

-slice the bubbles in the middle to see if in fact there is air between the base material and core. Inject with epoxy (syringe). Using a heat gun to encourage the epoxy to flow underneath for full contact. Clamp flat and let cure. Grind or plane flat and restructure, wax and go skiing.

-cut out the base section and epoxy/clamp new base material. Remove excess epoxy, grind/plane, wax and go skiing.

post #13 of 21
Thread Starter 

The culprit appears to be the glue/epoxy/bonding agent. How it comes apart is a puzzle.

 

Thanks for assuring me that the skis are not DEAD. I will keep your 2 suggestions in mind, even though the second sound like building a new pair of skis from scratch. 

 

Alpinord, can you help me to understand better, when you said:

-slice the bubbles in the middle to see if in fact there is air between the base material and core. Inject with epoxy (syringe). Using a heat gun to encourage the epoxy to flow underneath for full contact. Clamp flat and let cure. Grind or plane flat and restructure, wax and go skiing.

Do you mean: cut through the ptex with xacto (or similar) , release trapped air, inject epoxy (any specific kind?), apply heat, clamp, wait, flatten, restructure, then all is well? Would the added epoxy increase the volume and causing a uneven bulge?

 

Love 'em Contacts and not really looking to replace them for a while yet.

 

One question: If I am to avoid heating the base again, is there anything I can do to prep and maintain the base - heatless cleaning, heatless chemical wax?

 

Thanks

post #14 of 21

Yes, use a sharp blade like an Xacto. You don't need tons of epoxy. Heating it thins it and the air pressure of the heat gun helps it flow to the nooks and crannies under the base material. You will not know if there somehow got water something between base material and core without removing it, but you may be fine. Any change in thickness will be removed with a grind, planing or scraping.

 

A patch allows you to remove the compromised section, inspect, clean, prep and reinstall a new section. If the above approach doesn't work, this could be Plan B.

 

Light base cleaners and liquid or paste waxes are options, but less durable unless you use a high melt liquid wax like Briko-Maplus. Adding heat increases durability, however and you can try using a lower temperature.

 

I tried using an infrared thermometer to measure iron temperatures, but the reflective iron base does not return accurate temps. Adding some other material that conducts and is darker is on my to do list to see if I can get accurate readings. A plate thermometer is probably the best way to accurately measure temperatures however. The infrared thermometer can measure your ski base temps however behind the iron.

post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the clarification. It makes perfect sense. I am ready to go ahead with that if the simpler clamp fix doesn't hold. I intend to proceed with normal waxing with minimum temperature set on my iron.

post #16 of 21

I suppose one possibility of a source or component of a problem like this could be that if binding screws were not sealed, over time, water could find a way to migrate into the ski.

 

Please report back and good luck.

post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 

Waxed using so low a temperature (100°F), the wax barely melt, it took about 5 seconds for the wax to drip when pressed against the iron. Avoided heat around the affected area. One ski turned out fine, the bump has disappeared while the other showed visible signs, though not as bad as the photo above. My conclusion is that the fix is temporary. It troubles me to think how heat sensitive it has become.

 

Terry, I am going to do a more permanent fix as you suggested in summer. One thought came to mind, what about if I drill/poke a small hole through instead of cutting a slit. It will probably make injecting epoxy easier. Though I will have to do many tests to find out how thick the ptex layer is. The skis came with factory plate/system binding.

post #18 of 21

If the bumps/bubbles start coming back, you may want to deal with it sooner. Cutting 'X' s may be helpful to get the epoxy into the 'corners'.

 

Maybe you should just try fixing one and see how it goes and make adjustments to the process for the next ones (ie, patching). It may go much faster and easier than you think. This is all low tech. I'd try it without second guessing just to see if I could get the problem resolved and out of my head.

post #19 of 21

Listen to Alpinord.  He knows whereof he speaks on this.

post #20 of 21
Thread Starter 

Will do it if the bumps reappear, at least then I know where and how deep to cut. Will probably need to find someone who does snow ground right after. Thanks for the info.

post #21 of 21

A little flat filing, scraping or skiving may be all that you need to even out the repair sections.

 

Check out the tuning tip post video on the soldering iron base repair and the steps after the soldering/welding.

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