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Fore-Aft Balance - Head Icon 80 tt pros 170 Impact

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

Hi. I have recently purchased a set of Head Icon 80 tt pros at 170 length rather than 165 for all-round performance and was suggested that in order to correct fore-aft balance on these skis, seems to be to simply move the boot center point forward 1.5 cm using the railflex binding settings and make turn-in more dynamic and slalom orientated.

 

Anyone have any experience in moving the Head Power 11 railflex bindings forwards and describe the change in ski behaviour doing this mod?

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

post #2 of 13

Hi Steve,

I would be very cautious about moving the bindings forward from the mark; some people obviously think the mark is where the boot centre should be or the mark wouldn't be there.  That being said, moving them forward will make it easier to initiate turns, but do you really need to do that?  You know you will loose something in the process.

 

post #3 of 13

Hi Steve. I recently enjoyed a Harold Harb PMTS Camp and several of the instructors used the Head Icon TT 80 skis. They recommended moving the boot center forward by 1.5cm for owners having a challenge with fore-aft balance. The really nice option is it only takes a minute to adjust the bindings slopeside without tools to try the difference. If you do not like the change it only takes a minute to return them to the factory mark. I have really enjoyed moving my bindings forward 1.5cm on my Atomic GS Race skis but like the factory mark on my Dynastar Cross Tis.

post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Hi Steve,

I would be very cautious about moving the bindings forward from the mark; some people obviously think the mark is where the boot centre should be or the mark wouldn't be there.  That being said, moving them forward will make it easier to initiate turns, but do you really need to do that?  You know you will loose something in the process.

Binding postition mark is not scientific at all. It's determined by testers. Diff. manufacturers come up with diff postions. It's much more willy-nilly than you would think.

See at least two articles here for real world testing of binding postion, and the different preferences from manufacturers:

From Lou's Performance Center:

http://www.lous.ca/techarticles.html



 

post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMD View Post

Hi Steve. I recently enjoyed a Harold Harb PMTS Camp and several of the instructors used the Head Icon TT 80 skis. They recommended moving the boot center forward by 1.5cm for owners having a challenge with fore-aft balance. The really nice option is it only takes a minute to adjust the bindings slopeside without tools to try the difference. If you do not like the change it only takes a minute to return them to the factory mark. I have really enjoyed moving my bindings forward 1.5cm on my Atomic GS Race skis but like the factory mark on my Dynastar Cross Tis.

If the bindings can be easily adjusted without tools or re-drilling, then by all means go for it.

 

If the correct position is 1.5 cm above the factory mark, then why hasn't head put the mark in the correct position.  Don't they know anything about skis?
 

post #6 of 13

The mark on the ski represents the highest point on the skis camber which should theoretically also be the point about which  the skis will turn if left to their own.  That is it.  You "theorectically" want your COM above this point when in your "neutral" ski stance.  Problem is, we are all built slightly different (women tend to carry more weight in their hips then men, men carry more weight in their chest and shoulders) and all have slightly different boot set ups (ramp angles vary/ forward lean)), as a result our COM does vary front to back by a few centimeters from person to person....hence why some people like things a little more forward, others more back....but ultimatley they are likley adjusting their bindings down below...to get their COM above where it shoud be...over that mark.

 

As others have said, on a railflex binding, no reason not to play with it.  If you are "hippy" go forward, slim hips and average build, likely best on the mark, lots of ramp angle and forward lean on the boots, go back.....just put your boots on, and stand sideways looking at a mirror, estimate where you COM is, and put that over the ski mark, bindings might go ahead, stay netural or in some cases go back.

post #7 of 13

Thanks for explaining that Skidude.  Well said.

post #8 of 13


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

If the bindings can be easily adjusted without tools or re-drilling, then by all means go for it.

 

If the correct position is 1.5 cm above the factory mark, then why hasn't head put the mark in the correct position.  Don't they know anything about skis?
 

 

The 1.5cm figure comes from the tyrolia/head railflex bindings used last year which had a +/- 1.5cm quick adjustment option.  This year's tyrolia/head power rail bindings are adjustable in smaller increments w/o drilling.
 

post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevett View Post

was suggested that in order to correct fore-aft balance on these skis, seems to be to simply move the boot center point forward 1.5 cm using the railflex binding settings and make turn-in more dynamic and slalom orientated.

 

Steve


Steve,

 

Could you put in a few more words describing why you  believe the issue is "fore-aft" balance? Your technique can contribute to the issue. Riding lifts and looking at persons going downhill, I believe many stand too straight with hands held low resulting in placing weight on the heels.  Do you try to keep your boots under your hips with weight balanced in your boot?

 

The Tyrolia mounting instructions indicate that moving ahead permits easier turning, leaving them aft provides for added stability at speed, so there is some  trade off. As others have stated, move the bindings ahead and see what it does to your skiing.

post #10 of 13

The nice thing about RF is that you can play around with the mount line almost endlessly. You can make it  2 cm, for instance, by changing the BSL lines underneath that you use to attach the toe and heel pieces 5 mm, then moving the whole unit ahead by one hole, eg, 15 mm. Try it. It's not like you'll self-immolate if you're wrong. 

 

BTW, 1.5 forward or so may well end up at your BOF, which many prefer for skinny skis anyway. Do a search for the several long threads on how to calculate BOF, why it's popular for some. 

post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 

Hi. Instructors have previously indicated my balance is actually quite good, but I was interested in making the ski turn-in more more sharply, as previous rental skis have often not turned as quickly as I would like.

 

I admit it makes sense leaving them standard until I get more time on the skis and going from there (maybe try 1.5cm forward if need be)  - feedback has suggested fore-aft balance is particularly sensitive on these skis and I want to ensure turn-in is snappy.

 

Thanks, Steve

post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

If the bindings can be easily adjusted without tools or re-drilling, then by all means go for it.

 

If the correct position is 1.5 cm above the factory mark, then why hasn't head put the mark in the correct position.  Don't they know anything about skis?
 

Well I guess we could ask this about everything? Like boots. Of course, there no one agrees about much it seems.The upshot is, don't take the marks as some scientific line in the sand that shouldn't be crossed. It's more like a Saturday Night Live line in the sand..

 

post #13 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevett View Post

Hi. Instructors have previously indicated my balance is actually quite good, but I was interested in making the ski turn-in more more sharply, as previous rental skis have often not turned as quickly as I would like.

 

I admit it makes sense leaving them standard until I get more time on the skis and going from there (maybe try 1.5cm forward if need be)  - feedback has suggested fore-aft balance is particularly sensitive on these skis and I want to ensure turn-in is snappy.

 

Thanks, Steve

 

Then move the bindings forward...but if it is too far forward, then your exits will be "blah".

 

Better to get snappy entries with improved technqiue....



 

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