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2012 Fischer Vacuum Ski Boot: A Game Changer - Page 3

post #61 of 1290

Sounds like a very interesting development.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolo View Post

The machine makes the process idiot proof, according to the rep.

Hammers aren't idiot proof...smile.gif but it does sound like a good attempt.

As for the time involved, I don't get the comment that it's too much. If you've ever had many hours spent fitting your boots, this is almost instantaneous.

 

I guess the biggest question is what are the other angles involved? To what degree will they place the foot toe out? , and what is the ramp angle?

How much instep room can they compensate for? - If you've got a low one, will it fill the space, and if you've got a high one, will it compensate?

What's done to give toe room? Is there enough big toe space? 



Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

-

It is ;) Most of WC guys are on this boots since Zagreb races. These are boots of Julien Cousineau from Zagreb SL race (6th of Jan. 2011). I know all this might not mean much, and they can be just repainted old style boots, but on the other side, Palander still had old boots in Zagreb, while in Schladming, he was with these ones already. So maybe it's not just paint job ;)

 

spo_skiing_20110106nw_12765.jpg

 


Primoz, i know it is your profession but still got to hand it to you for the quality of this photo.  To get close up detail quality like that during a slalom run is superb! icon14.gif

 

Awesome photo Primoz!

 Note the instep buckle is on the second position, Booster strap appears to be in use.
 

post #62 of 1290

Quote:

Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by shoal007 View Post

I am stolked. Time to get ride of my atomic semi-race plugs. This sounds like the answer! I am sure some bootfitters are shivering, there goes all possibility of return income for boot fitting. I'm all up for this. 



Probably not. All the attendees were top level bootfitters and they are all for it. The reason I think is twofold. One......the income from the higher priced boots will offset lost income from follow up fitting charges (which are mostly free anyway). Two........many established bootfitters are so busy doing fixit work that we run the risk of not being able to service the customer that comes in (without appointment) wanting to buy something. The time saved is worth more than the income lost.

 

I'm sure there will be growing pains.

 

SJ


Thanks SJ, Starthaus, Nolo and anyone else who has added more good intel.

 

Can't imagine that a Pro bootfitter would be anything but jealous, if their shop doesn't have the system available. The objective of better 'fit' for many hard-to-fit skiers is what they're all looking for; and anything which moves towards that end has to be a tool you won't want to be without.

Can it all be accomplished the 'old-fashioned' way? possibly, but with a lot more work and effort. Though, getting a tighter shell fit might be the differentiation.

Starting with a boot which might now be 95% good, rather than 75%, is a HUGE advantage.

I expect that after some experience with the system, fitters will find ways to 'fine tune' along the way, to further improve the end result fit; and eliminate further tiresome fit sessions.

My Fischer boots have barely 30 days on them; and I just can;t imagine myself paying full boat for ski equipment.

I'm never an 'early-adopter' in almost anything...

BUT

I will line up for the first pair of 110 flex Fischers I can get next season.

I don't have a lot of good years left in this tired sack of Protoplasm, so I'm not gonna wait around for the nth degree of improvement.

 

BTW, have no Fischer stock, don;t work for them, never have...

along with many other brands, I've never been disappointed by Fischer stuff - always did what they claim it would.

just extremely fortuitous that I already have significant hill time on their stuff.

 

 

post #63 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceDude View Post

Are these named after a tennis racquet?  I just googled "Fischer Vacuum" and pretty much everything was about tennis.

 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/100806/will-ski-design-follow-the-same-trend-as-tennis-racquets-did#post_1301287

 

Post #3: "What's funnier to me is how tennis tech funnels down to skiing a few years later and everyone gets hot and bothered as if it were innovation all along for skis. You want to know what materials will be hot in two or three years? Go check out Tennis Magazine ads..."

 

I don't know much about all this, but it seems to me that it's easier (cheaper) to try the new stuff out in racquets than it is in skis and boots. Head used Liquidmetal in its racquets 2 years before its skis. http://www.liquidmetal.com/news/dsp.press.020905.asp

 

 

sorry for hijack ...

 

post #64 of 1290

Didn't Fischer used the name Vacuum on it's race skis in the 1980s?

post #65 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

Didn't Fischer used the name Vacuum on it's race skis in the 1980s?


Probably ... they were using on tennis racquets back then.

post #66 of 1290



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

Didn't Fischer used the name Vacuum on it's race skis in the 1980s?


Probably ... they were using on tennis racquet's back then.



 If you've know this and other things for so long, why didn't you bring this one over to skiing?

  .... Oh!  You would have made to much money.    ...Ok!

post #67 of 1290


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skimalibu View Post



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

Didn't Fischer used the name Vacuum on it's race skis in the 1980s?


Probably ... they were using on tennis racquet's back then.



 If you've know this and other things for so long, why didn't you bring this one over to skiing?

  .... Oh!  You would have made to much money.    ...Ok!

 

This is very disturbing, I did not put an apostrophe in racquets in my post, but it was quoted that way?? (I did leave out a word, but damn.)

 

So, Head's latest tennis stuff is Microgel and Youtek. Youtek is that d3o stuff that has already been used in impact clothing, I guess it will come into skis next? Dunno. But you heard it here first. Or maybe you didn't.
 

post #68 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

Didn't Fischer used the name Vacuum on it's race skis in the 1980s?


I've always thought "Vacuum" started life as Fischerspeak for "torsion box construction"
post #69 of 1290

Isn't the vacuum line only combined with Soma?

post #70 of 1290

Fischer have a promo video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=114_y7rTcsE

post #71 of 1290
My question:


How many moulding cycles can one shell take?
post #72 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post

My question:


How many moulding cycles can one shell take?


The OP said "This process can be done up to five times to refit the boot."

post #73 of 1290

This is wonderful, if it truly works. I fall into the extremely-difficult-to-fit camp. I have a slightly inward curving foot due to being born with a few short ligaments (even after surgery at 6 months old). I also have pretty big ankle bones. Boot-fitting has always historically taken several hours and several trips with multiple punchings in many different areas - probably 5+ hours total. I have been using my current boots for 7 years now, avoiding the dreaded fitting process. The soles are beat to hell, the liners packed out, but they still fit pretty well.

 

I was planning on buying new boots next year. These are coming just in time. I would have been so disappointed if these came out a year later. For someone like me with a curved foot, a shell that molds to your foot sounds 1000x better than trying to get things punched out just right in many different places - and especially so, since it sounds like it can 'suck' in the shell where my foot curves away. I'm now actually excited to buy boots next year, as opposed to being deathly afraid of it - lets hope it works! I'll definitely report back on the success from the 'hard-to-fit' camp.

post #74 of 1290

Hey guys, 

 

New to Epic.Very interested in the boot. I found this on youtube. It is appears to the be the vacuum fit process video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=114_y7rTcsE

 

chris

post #75 of 1290

Sounds awesome especially if it can reduce volume in the right places, or conversely start

with low volume and expand.  Any thoughts on weight-

equal, less than, greater than status quo?

post #76 of 1290


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdc View Post

Fischer have a promo video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=114_y7rTcsE



80* for 10 minutes....then I was right, these things will lose their form if kept too warm.   Leave boots in car on a sunny day, come back to a puddle of palstic.

post #77 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdc View Post

Fischer have a promo video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=114_y7rTcsE



80* for 10 minutes....then I was right, these things will lose their form if kept too warm.   Leave boots in car on a sunny day, come back to a puddle of palstic.

 


I think that's 80C...176F.  Not sure why you'd have your ski boots in any situation that would involve 176F temps in your car!

 

Looks very interesting, especially as I'm trying to break in a pair of Lange RS 130s now, complete with tears.

post #78 of 1290

Still think there is a better way to fit a boot flawlessly, something along the lines of using a similar technology to what is now used for making bone settings resin casts....at least then it wont lose its shape no matter the temperature and will be super pliable until activated.

post #79 of 1290


Well if that is the case then thats different.   Temps in  a car can reach 200* so they say

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebeer View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdc View Post

Fischer have a promo video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=114_y7rTcsE



80* for 10 minutes....then I was right, these things will lose their form if kept too warm.   Leave boots in car on a sunny day, come back to a puddle of palstic.

 


I think that's 80C...176F.  Not sure why you'd have your ski boots in any situation that would involve 176F temps in your car!

 

Looks very interesting, especially as I'm trying to break in a pair of Lange RS 130s now, complete with tears.

post #80 of 1290

  


Edited by comprex - 4/19/11 at 5:29pm
post #81 of 1290

 

Quote:
Assuming a constant pressure in the air bladder around the shell, won't these thickest areas of shell & metal around the most problematic bony protrusions of the foot be most resistant to shaping?

 

Yes they will. However; bootfitters have been dealing with this sort of thing in liner molding for years and similar principles will apply. Pre-padding of the foot in problem areas will increase outward pressure (hence expansion) of the shell. Greater pressure in the molding process will also increase the compression in areas that need it. Balancing some pre-padding plus some high molding pressures can make the ankle area mold just fine.

 

On delivery, availability, pricing and other related questions.....there are no firm answers yet. We expect to have full delivery in mid September however some discussions w/Fischers race dept director has led us to believe that we may be involved in testing and protocol development (to some extent or another) sooner than that. It all remains to be seen but my best guess is that most of the Starthaus employees will be lining up for these boots. FYI....that is saying something.

 

SJ

post #82 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post

Still think there is a better way to fit a boot flawlessly, something along the lines of using a similar technology to what is now used for making bone settings resin casts....at least then it wont lose its shape no matter the temperature and will be super pliable until activated.



Let us know when you come up with said better way. BTW.....I'd suggest that you have you patents in order before you spillz da beanz. I'll be waiting with interest.

 

SJ

post #83 of 1290



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie-Rich View Post

Still think there is a better way to fit a boot flawlessly, something along the lines of using a similar technology to what is now used for making bone settings resin casts....at least then it wont lose its shape no matter the temperature and will be super pliable until activated.



Let us know when you come up with said better way. BTW.....I'd suggest that you have you patents in order before you spillz da beanz. I'll be waiting with interest.

 

SJ



RR,  I really can't see a better way right now but, I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.  I have questions on the foam liners life expectancy and I think you RR brought up a question on shrinkage of the foam over time.

 

 Other than those two questions.......

 

I'd say I'm In . Starthaus please put me down for a pair. I hope all goes well with the install of the machine............ That is getting to be quite the shop.

 

post #84 of 1290

I've got to say that the fitting technology doesn't seem inaccessible to me.  The oven looks very similar to the one in which my Intuitions and Zipfits were cooked.  The two wraps used in the molding process don't look terribly complex either.

 

Of course, I've never used them, so that's based only on the video.

post #85 of 1290


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

 

... Balancing some pre-padding plus some high molding pressures can make the ankle area mold just fine.

 

... We expect to have full delivery in mid September however some discussions w/Fischers race dept director has led us to believe that we may be involved in testing and protocol development (to some extent or another) sooner than that....

 

SJ


haven't been to Tahoe in years...

but I wouldn;t mind makin the trip and visitin with some old friends.

keep us updated on when boots finally come out of the marketing 'oven'  - 110 flex or thereabouts...

...been a crashtestdummy plenty times in the past... wink.gif

post #86 of 1290

There is nothing in this concept that is unobtainium technology except possibly the plastic itself and even then......only because of patents. However, the execution and usage of all these factors together will probably give Fischer a two year head start at the minimum. Salomon is the closest but their stuff is well behind the curve when compared to this process and their boots at the moment are less than competitive when compared to the Langes and Tecnicas.

 

SJ

post #87 of 1290

What is the difference between the Pro version and the regular version as both come in a 130 flex?

post #88 of 1290

The last width.  I believe that the Pro is a 96 or 98mm last, and the regular is 100mm.

 

Jims, I don't think that you answered my question of whether these could work with Zipfits.

post #89 of 1290

Wow, Jim and Jim, these boots do sound like a real deal.  I am due for new boots next year, and I think SJ and I knew what we were shooting for; these look like they throw these plans right out of the window...  The only concern is getting enough of the shells to satisfy the demand.  Sign me up for early next year...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post

+ a couple of things to sierrajim's comments.

 

fischer has developed the plastics with a major supplier. they have also entered into an agreement for long term exclusivity.

 

total time invested in the concept about 5 years. some of that spent on the materials, some of it spent on the method and the vacuum device.

 

why is this concept so special?

 

for the first time in the history of ski boot production, a retail shop can completely customize the shell shape, forward lean, cuff alignment, and sole canting in 30 minutes start to finish. most importantly is that it works, and that it is amazingly close to idiot proof. there has been foam injected, silicone injected, hot wax injected, poured 2 part foam, cork/oil flow, all forms of heat moldable eva foam, etc, etc, etc. in all cases, all of that stuff has fallen short of consumer expectations. this new process is going to finally work like none of these other concepts have.

 

sierrajim's comments are spot on. he watched the entire indoor process while i got my fischer soma vacuum pro 130 fit. this one is a 95mm lasted race model.

 

my foot is about 100 mm wide at the forefoot, medium girth, with a selection of bone spurs and bumps developed over the past 49 years of my life.

after getting the boot done by 2 of fischers finest, i skied pain free, and in perfect balance, my first day out on these boots. i can say without fear of contradiction, that has never taken place in my life.

 

this morning when i got up to winter park, i had to try these boots. because i was scheduled to test skis for the day, i brought up my trusty dobe's just in case either the fit or the stance set-up did not work in the fischer. if things did not feel stellar, i would switch to my old boots so i could complete the testing. from the first run everything was perfect. i tested skis all day until they shut down the lift. i have never been able to have this kind of instant result with any other boot in all the years i have done as a boot tester. most importantly as i sit here typing, my feet feel great.

 

at some point we will post the video of the process taking place at the s.i.a. show in denver.

 

jim

post #90 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post
from the first run everything was perfect. i tested skis all day until they shut down the lift. i have never been able to have this kind of instant result with any other boot in all the years i have done as a boot tester. most importantly as i sit here typing, my feet feel great.

 

What happens when the liner starts it's initial packing out before it settles into it's longer-term shape? Seems that you would lose some of the nice fit once that happens, no?

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