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2012 Fischer Vacuum Ski Boot: A Game Changer - Page 42

post #1231 of 1290

Not specifically.  He mentioned a woman he was working with, he was punching her boot.  I said she sounded like a good candidate for a Vacume boot. He said she also  had hip and knee issues and an abducted boot would make things worse for her. He said Fischer is concerned that (inexperienced) fitters might put such skiers in their boots, and the the outcome would not be good.

Bottom line, as it has always been, it that the fitter is as important in the process as the boot, and these boots are not for everyone.

 

But if they do fit, it doesn't get much better!!!

post #1232 of 1290
I have only been skiing for 3 years now and wanted to purchase my own gear. I am 245pounds 6'4" and like to ski pretty hard. I keep reading about all these different boots but this fisher soma rc4 vacuum really caught attention. What bindings and skis (i need a good all around ski) do you guys recommend to purchase with the boots. Thanks ahead for your help. 😃
post #1233 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake1 View Post

I have only been skiing for 3 years now and wanted to purchase my own gear. I am 245pounds 6'4" and like to ski pretty hard. I keep reading about all these different boots but this fisher soma rc4 vacuum really caught attention. What bindings and skis (i need a good all around ski) do you guys recommend to purchase with the boots. Thanks ahead for your help. 😃

Different things.  First thing you need to "purchase" is a good bootfitter.  There is no way that after 3 years of skiing (in Texas) you know what you need.  Stop picking boots off the internet, and go to a professional.  I'm sure they can recommend a ski for you as well, but I'd get good boots and rent skis until you figure out what you like.  Given your experience there are plenty of other boots on the market besides the Vacs that could work for you.  Before you go to the store, read the FAQs on boots on this site.  Here is a tip for you- go to a shop that does shell customization.  Call and ask if they do it, if they have no clue what it is, find a different shop.  Hint 2: REI has no clue, and  any big box store won't have a clue either.  You may be better off finding that boot fitter on your next ski trip, but make an appointment for earlier in the trip so you can go back and get necessary boot work done.  Good luck. 

post #1234 of 1290

Alex,

 

You are right and that is exactly what i was thinking. Texas doesn't really have anybody i would trust to boot fit and i don't want to wait for  next time i head to CO or NM to buy boots (but i will get them fitted there). I am just ready to buy now because of the good prices on the Internet. At the same time making a decision from just looking on the Internet is really hard. What i was looking for is a bit that was stiff and easy to adjust/fit so i could have it next time i ski. The skis are also the same thing, I'm not getting them until i try a couple different styles. Thanks for the advise Alex.  

post #1235 of 1290

You are right and that is exactly what i was thinking. Texas doesn't really have anybody i would trust to boot fit and i don't want to wait for  next time i head to CO or NM to buy boots (but i will get them fitted there). I am just ready to buy now because of the good prices on the Internet. At the same time making a decision from just looking on the Internet is really hard. What i was looking for is a bit that was stiff and easy to adjust/fit so i could have it next time i ski. The skis are also the same thing, I'm not getting them until i try a couple different styles. Thanks for the advise Alex.  

 
post #1236 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Different things.  First thing you need to "purchase" is a good bootfitter.  There is no way that after 3 years of skiing (in Texas) you know what you need.  Stop picking boots off the internet, and go to a professional.  I'm sure they can recommend a ski for you as well, but I'd get good boots and rent skis until you figure out what you like.  Given your experience there are plenty of other boots on the market besides the Vacs that could work for you.  Before you go to the store, read the FAQs on boots on this site.  Here is a tip for you- go to a shop that does shell customization.  Call and ask if they do it, if they have no clue what it is, find a different shop.  Hint 2: REI has no clue, and  any big box store won't have a clue either.  You may be better off finding that boot fitter on your next ski trip, but make an appointment for earlier in the trip so you can go back and get necessary boot work done.  Good luck. 

 

Alex,

 

You are right and that is exactly what i was thinking. Texas doesn't really have anybody i would trust to boot fit and i don't want to wait for  next time i head to CO or NM to buy boots (but i will get them fitted there). I am just ready to buy now because of the good prices on the Internet. At the same time making a decision from just looking on the Internet is really hard. What i was looking for is a bit that was stiff and easy to adjust/fit so i could have it next time i ski. The skis are also the same thing, I'm not getting them until i try a couple different styles. Thanks for the advise Alex.  

post #1237 of 1290
Don't buy boots off the Internet. Plain and simple. You have been warned. A fitter can do only so much with the wrong shell and often nothing if the shell is really wrong. I bet the fitters have seen way too many smart asses trying to save a buck buying shells off the net and getting them fitted by a pro. A lot of them end up buying another boot within a year.

Oh yeah and the wrong Fischer shell could be worse than the wrong conventional shell. So it's not a panacea. I am not even sure anyone sells Vacs on the web.
post #1238 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Don't buy boots off the Internet. Plain and simple. You have been warned. A fitter can do only so much with the wrong shell and often nothing if the shell is really wrong. I bet the fitters have seen way too many smart asses trying to save a buck buying shells off the net and getting them fitted by a pro. A lot of them end up buying another boot within a year.

Oh yeah and the wrong Fischer shell could be worse than the wrong conventional shell. So it's not a panacea. I am not even sure anyone sells Vacs on the web.

110% correct. If you buy boots on the web, I can pretty much guarantee they will be too big. A fitter can usually fix too small, but too big is pretty much impossible to fix.
post #1239 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake1 View Post

 

Alex,

 

You are right and that is exactly what i was thinking. Texas doesn't really have anybody i would trust to boot fit and i don't want to wait for  next time i head to CO or NM to buy boots (but i will get them fitted there). I am just ready to buy now because of the good prices on the Internet. At the same time making a decision from just looking on the Internet is really hard. What i was looking for is a bit that was stiff and easy to adjust/fit so i could have it next time i ski. The skis are also the same thing, I'm not getting them until i try a couple different styles. Thanks for the advise Alex.  

Those "cheap" boots won't wind up being so cheap after paying a bootfitter to get them right.  The advantage of buying boots from a good bootfitter where you are skiing is that 1. they usually include most of the fitting in the price of the boot and in my experience, it is usually a multi visit process.  You get an initial fitting, ski the boot, go back and discuss what you like and don't like, tweak the boot and do it all over again.  Sometimes, this can take several visits.  If you buy the boots off the internet, you are going to pay (and should have to pay) each time the boots are tweaked.

 

post #1240 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake1 View Post
...and i don't want to wait for  next time i head to CO or NM to buy boots (but i will get them fitted there). I am just ready to buy now because of the good prices on the Internet.

It's painfully straightforward to buy boots at the beginning of a ski trip. Have one or two good fitters identified (we can help there if you specify where you will be going a bit in advance). Walk in and say, "Hi, I'm looking for new boots." They will ask you a few questions, check your feet in a few ways, and pull out some candidates. An experienced fitter can have you down to a simple this-one-or-that-one choice of two decently fitting boots within 20 minutes. They may suggest a custom insole, which is a good investment and changes the fit of the boot significantly.  If they don't, you can assume you have a fairly normal foot and don't need one. Pay your money. Odds are, he/she'll suggest you ski on them next day or two, then drop by for adjustment. Which you'd have to do either way, only this time, fitter is working with  boot they know, and are vested in, so prolly another 20 minutes. Maybe another tweak later in the week. Set. 

 

Now the economics: First, the idea that stores at the mountain charge vastly more than the internet for a particular good boot is a myth. I consistently pay within 10% of online warehouse prices, say $70-$80. Which is the price of your tweaks. In fact, last time around I paid less at a store than I could have online because the store was having an early season sale. Time before that, about the same price.

 

So if you're seeing really amazing prices, guess what? Some boots don't move, they were bad bets by the manufacturer, so they end up at online warehouses. They don't sell for a reason. Fitter I work with makes jokes about particular models that are slow movers because they don't fit most people, or flex weirdly, or have features that don't work (some "walk" models fit this category) or whatever; they'll end up on some unsuspecting internet tourists' feet. Great boots, like great skis, don't end up heavily discounted at the end of the season. Mediocre or unpopular boots do end up heavily discounted. So if you just go by lowest priced boot you see that's your foot length, rather than a particular model that everyone respects, then yep, the web has great deals. 

 

Second, when you buy at a store, all the tweaks are free, for as long as you want adjustments. In fact good fitters expect you to come back to dial things in. By contrast, if you bring in a boot, they'll charge you $50-$80. You will not get any discounts on stuff like an insole. More to the point, they won't stand behind the boot if you didn't buy it there. If it's just not gonna work, you're faced with another purchase. 

 

Finally, factor in the cost of your trip. Say 2K for a week at Vail, yes? Now calculate the price differential between those great online deals and a boot at a Vail shop: Say $150 max, prolly lot less. OK, so that savings at best is .075 of your trip. Now factor in on-slope performance and comfort. What are they worth? Have you spent any time in boots that don't fit right? After all, for that $150 savings you bought a pair of boots more or less blind, assuming that any boot out there can fit your feet close enough that the fitter can cure all remaining ills. Or you heard that XXX makes boots that fit a certain kind of foot. Good luck with that. If you're super lucky, your boots will in fact fit adequately enough that the fitter can adjust them. If you're average lucky, you'll have OK boots that pack out quickly and cause shin bang and sore ankle bones as you try to figure out why your skis feel so unpredictable. You'll own them one season and then churn them for new ones. If you're not so lucky, you'll discover the exquisite feel of a square peg being driven into a round hole. Suggest a really long lunch and two brews, then four 200 mg. ibuprofen. Cancel your dinner plans the few evenings cuz you and the fitter have serious work to do. If that doesn't do it, take Bluto's advice for the rest of the trip: Start drinking heavily. wink.gif

post #1241 of 1290
That sounds good. I'm not going to waste my time and money looking and buying boot from the net. I am buying them to fit perfect and to half ass it then have problems with them. I just got back from Vail last weekend and just wanted to buy some ski gear but I will wait and go to the store and purchase and get them fitter there. The ms for the help and advise. Put things into perspective. 😃
post #1242 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

Soma stance promotes knee angulation instead of stronger skeletal stacking for people that don't have a major abducted stance normally.  It's a weaker position to start with and not what I need for my knee tracking.

 


Will the soma tech help pronated, duck footed stance? I have visited a reputable boot fitter and he said it would. I have a problem standing on right foot LTE. I can ski single footed on it but I can't get very high angle. I don't know how to explain it well. Simply put, when I am on right foot LTE, my balance become aft. I am very satisfied with the work that has been done on my current boots but the boot fitter that worked on my boots does not carry Vacuum. I plan to get next year's boot if I can get improvement from soma tech.

post #1243 of 1290

Phil - did you ski it in the stock liner ? I'm thinking of getting a pair of the Rangers , but am concerned with some of the liner reviews , which is leading me to think about perhaps getting a Zip Fit . On the other hand , the 2013/2014 liner is supposed to be improved and would save me money . I'd really love to have your thoughts on my liner issue .           Much thanks .

post #1244 of 1290
So would it be safe to buy these boots without trying them over the internet? Like, I know that they'll fit over the instep etc, but will they mold out to make a good fit for smaller places? Thanks.
post #1245 of 1290

I would say no. The different models have different lasts, and just like any other boot, there is no way to tell if it is right for you without trying it on. Also, you would have to take them to a dealer to get molded, so you might as well buy from them in the first place. If you have read thru the Vacuum threads you will take away that if the boot fits your foot it can't get any better. If it doesn't fit your foot, no amount of molding or punching will make it fit correctly.

post #1246 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post

So would it be safe to buy these boots without trying them over the internet? Like, I know that they'll fit over the instep etc, but will they mold out to make a good fit for smaller places? Thanks.

I think its safe to say that its as important to get input from a boot fitter on this boot purchase as any other boot, not less. 

post #1247 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
 

I think its safe to say that its as important to get input from a boot fitter on this boot purchase as any other boot, not less. 

 

I would also add that you will have to pay a bootfitter to do the molding if you buy it over the internet, where as it is included in the price if you buy it from the store.  I've had my remolded 3 times for free and a buckle replaced for free over a two year period since I bought the boot from the shop.  That work would have likely cost me a bit over $100 if I bought the boots elsewhere and brought it to the shop for the the work.

post #1248 of 1290
N
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post

So would it be safe to buy these boots without trying them over the internet? Like, I know that they'll fit over the instep etc, but will they mold out to make a good fit for smaller places? Thanks.

No. You need to mold Fischers and it's something you just cannot do at home. And you won't believe the number of little tricks involved in getting it right. So, find a good fitter.
post #1249 of 1290

Now that this thread's active again, anyone have opinions on this year's Ranger Pro 13? Seems like a nice boot and it looks like the liner's gotten a solid upgrade. 

post #1250 of 1290

Who has it in PCMR?

post #1251 of 1290

^^^ If I was going in that direction here I'd use PC Ski Boot.  Brent & Chris are fairly renowned.

post #1252 of 1290
I'm not saying that I'd mold them myself...it's just that I don't have the money to spend on a 1000$ boot, and I could spend it on same boot for 300$, and I'm just wondering if a vacuum boot, which I know will fit pretty well due to people I've talked to, be able to mold out inconsistencies that keep it from being a really good fit?
sorry if it's stupid question.
post #1253 of 1290
I also am wondering about the new liner on the vacuum lineup. It looks to me like the have borrowed some materials from intuition and improved the liner over the toe box as well. Does anyone have any experience with these new liners?
post #1254 of 1290

I just got molded a few weeks ago. The new liners are fairly thin compared to my old RC4 boots. They are easy to get in and out of the boot and have a lace up  about 1/2 up the tongue. Not sure how warm they will be, but will find out in a few weeks. It seems that they will be comfortable with a snug fit because of the laces.

 

Re: molding yourself - unless you have the Fischer equipment you would be crazy to try it yourself. The equipment has specific contours for pressure on the plastic. Also it has a cooling system to speed up the process which takes about 6 minutes of standing in a proper stance. So if you are worried about money - don't buy the boot. The shop I went to was about $150 to mold. I didn't buy over the internet, just got a good deal.

post #1255 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post

I'm not saying that I'd mold them myself...it's just that I don't have the money to spend on a 1000$ boot, and I could spend it on same boot for 300$, and I'm just wondering if a vacuum boot, which I know will fit pretty well due to people I've talked to, be able to mold out inconsistencies that keep it from being a really good fit?
sorry if it's stupid question.

You will have a cost involved in molding the boots by anyone who has the proper machine to do it.  My guess is that you'll have anywhere from 100-300 in the fitting fees depending on what you need to have done. 

 

*just a guess on cost.  Check with a fitter who has the equipment. 

post #1256 of 1290

Everyone wants to re-event the wheel...Gas peddle, tape on Zeppa, cut this cut that, insert after market this and after market that. Bottom line is the oldest technology of all is the human foot. Its real easy to get a great deal on all the wrong stuff and then chase the rainbow forever. Find a boot fitter that actually understands the normal and abnormal function of the human foot and start the process from there. Everything gets easy then. When a foot is in its most efficient position you will be surprised how much better it is able to flex the boot and then in turn load the ski. The Fischer vacuum system is awesome when utilized properly by someone that actually understands all of the nuiances of the process. Also not all human feet want or need to be in a abducted stance/position which in turn can make the bootgasm impossible for some no matter what you do.

post #1257 of 1290

I just purchased a pair of '13-'14 Fischer RC4 Pro 130 Vacuum boots from Garrick Dardani, the owner of Steiner's Sports in Upstate NY.  Garrick is a certified Pedorthist and also is Master Fit Certified.  The fit process was very smooth and fast, and hopefully yielded good results as I haven't been out on the snow with them yet.  However, during living room skiing sessions, the boots feel great and have a nice, snug fit all over.  I will post again after I have skied in the boots.

post #1258 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by kauffee View Post
 

Now that this thread's active again, anyone have opinions on this year's Ranger Pro 13? Seems like a nice boot and it looks like the liner's gotten a solid upgrade. 

 

That's just a pair of regular RC4 130 (not pro) with a shock absorbing footboard and a different paint job. Sounds like something for big mountain guys. 

post #1259 of 1290

I would like to reply generally to this discussion, now that it is active again.  To those of you who have already made your purchase, I wish you well.  My experience with the vacuum boots has been ongoing pain and misery. I will be in Solomons again this year. 

 

The advertising on my Soma Vacuum hybrid 12+ boots was that it would fit a foot from 98 to 108 mm.  That's a range of almost 4/10 of an inch!  That's insane, and that was certainly not my experience.  My left foot is 105 mm. in the forefoot, and my right 104mm.  I went through two pairs of boots last winter.  The first pair was defective in the upper shell of the left boot and was replaced after 22 days.  Up to that time, I couldn't buy a good turn, even though I teach skiing.  The fit never stabalized and I was in constant pain in my left forefoot because the molded boot was simply too narrow.  My feet froze because of the constriction and the WCPOS liner. 

 

The second pair of boots was immediately the best skiing pair of boots I have ever had - positive, direct, subtle, sensitive.  A mind vehicle. The molding of the upper shell to the shape of my calf and lower leg, along with the fit over my instep made this boot work as  of one piece.  I give credit where credit is due.

 

But that was not to last.  Molding them at a lower pressure did not end the pain in my left forefoot, I developed 3 hotspots on my left foot that kept growing.  I was in agony, and took the second pair to a certified pedorthist who does a lot of high level bootwork. He punched them out a considerable amount - the hammer tap test with my naked foot in the boot without the liner showed skin contact to boot wall around most of my forefoot and 4 of the 5 toes. (Guess how much room there was for the liner).  The right boot was nearly as close as the left in fit. 

 

I finished the season in the modified boots.  But the sensitivity and responsiveness I so enjoyed with the boots went away with the mods.  The top of the left boot oilcanned and developed a crack near the front at the top.  The shell lost structural integrity and would spread when I flexed deeply.  And the feeling of the two boots was markedly different in stiffness.

 

I considered asking Fischer for a third pair for this season, but my fitter told me that I would have the same problems and fitting mod needs with a new pair because the boot simply will not mold to fit my foot - it is too wide.  He worked on 6 other pairs last winter, 3 of them went back to the factory.  Aftermarket liners no solution, as there isn't room for them either.  So I gave up on them.

 

Based on my experience and conversations with others (including a former dealer with lots of experience with the vacuum boots), I believe that Fischer has considerable oversold whom this boot will fit well.  Within a narrow range, this will be superb skiing boot for those whose foot is that match. For anyone with a wider foot, I say beware.  These boots bit me in the ass, and I think they have caused the shops problems too.  Both the buyer and the shops got to be the crash test dummies for Fischer.

 

Surfdog 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me start by saying that the difference between perfection and misery at this level of fitting is as thin as a piece of paper.  Last fall I purchased a pair of the Soma Vacuum Hybrid 12+ boots and had them molded at a fairly high pressure, as I teach skiing and wanted a performance fit.  The left boot was defective and would never stabalize (the upper shell kept spreading

post #1260 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post

I'm not saying that I'd mold them myself...it's just that I don't have the money to spend on a 1000$ boot, and I could spend it on same boot for 300$, and I'm just wondering if a vacuum boot, which I know will fit pretty well due to people I've talked to, be able to mold out inconsistencies that keep it from being a really good fit?
sorry if it's stupid question.

I don't think this is how it works...  Fischers need a skilled fitter with a proper machine, and they are known to develop problems sometimes, so a good fitter and a warranty is probably a must.  You may not be saving much by buying them from the internet after everything is said and done.  

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