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Back Country Basics. READ FIRST - Page 2

post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jondrums View Post

Two ESSENTIAL things are left out of this discussion:

 

1) Beacon Practice...

 

Um, second post.

 

Quote:

2) A Partner (who has beacon practiced)

 

All the gear and internet reading in the world won't save you if you don't have BOTH of these.   I consider these two to be the most important requirements for BC.   Everything else is just stuff to help make the experience more enjoyable.

 

I'd say good knowledge and experience relating to snowpack analysis is most important requirement, but that's just my take.  Better not to have to use the beacon IMO.  

post #32 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

 

Quote:

Extra Clothes: You will be hot when climbing and sweating is something you want to try and avoid  in cold weather environments.  Hypothermia can set in easily if you allow yourself to get wet from sweat. Dress in layers, so that you can regulate your body temperature by making adjustments as you climb and descend.  In addition, if you do end up spending the night out, those few extra layers will be of help in keeping you dry and warm.

 

Please differentiate between materials like cotton versus wicking materials like polypro and wool.

 

Headlamps also for if you simply can't get out or start before dark or a white out.

 

Make sure beacon and light has good, reliable batteries. Lithium or Eneloops are good options.

 

Voile or boat straps

 

Carabiner or two and some cord


I know why you would bring carabiners and cord but unless you have some knowledge of practical knots and such I feel like the equipment could be more of a liability than a help. Trying to rescue someone using simple over hand knots could end in even more tragedy.

post #33 of 45


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by jondrums View Post

Two ESSENTIAL things are left out of this discussion:

 

1) Beacon Practice...

 

Um, second post.

 

Quote:

2) A Partner (who has beacon practiced)

 

All the gear and internet reading in the world won't save you if you don't have BOTH of these.   I consider these two to be the most important requirements for BC.   Everything else is just stuff to help make the experience more enjoyable.

 

I'd say good knowledge and experience relating to snowpack analysis is most important requirement, but that's just my take.  Better not to have to use the beacon IMO.  

http://www.wildsnow.com/1028/two-myths-of-avalanche-survival-1-my-beacon-is-my-savior/

 

always a good read

post #34 of 45

Phones can interfere with beacons if you bring a phone it should be off until needed. I also keep jerky in my pack and duck tape on poles and shovel handle, a screwdriver, and skinwax sure can come in handy.

 

Many hate this but I prefer to be alone I have not been able to rely on partners lately. Don't mind rescuing myself but prefer to know that at the start. 

post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by teledance View Post

 I also keep jerky in my pack and duck tape on poles and shovel handle...


This. I always keep a decent bead of duct tape wrapped on both poles (do it pretty high up so it doesn't jack with your swing weight). I like to position them about a 1/3 of the way down the pole and it makes for a nice quasi grip for the uphill pole when traversing a steeper slope. Since I have started doing it I prolly use the tape about once every five outings or so, in bounds or in the back country. Most common uses: blister protection and patching the rip that the tree branch just put in your nice new pants.

 

Heh.

post #36 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teledance View Post

Phones can interfere with beacons if you bring a phone it should be off until needed. I also keep jerky in my pack and duck tape on poles and shovel handle, a screwdriver, and skinwax sure can come in handy.

 

Many hate this but I prefer to be alone I have not been able to rely on partners lately. Don't mind rescuing myself but prefer to know that at the start. 


I did not know about cells interfering with beacons thnx for the input.

 

Do you have any links or book suggestions for self rescue?

post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by teledance View Post

Phones can interfere with beacons if you bring a phone it should be off until needed. I also keep jerky in my pack and duck tape on poles and shovel handle, a screwdriver, and skinwax sure can come in handy.

 

Many hate this but I prefer to be alone I have not been able to rely on partners lately. Don't mind rescuing myself but prefer to know that at the start. 


I did not know about cells interfering with beacons thnx for the input.

 

Do you have any links or book suggestions for self rescue?


If you are buried there is no such thing as self rescue-don't kid yourself

 

post #38 of 45
Thread Starter 

Then what does this from the Colroado Avalanch INforamtion Center mean:  

On Saturday a rider was buried and self-rescued in a small avalanche in the backcountry west of Beaver Creek.

 

That's only one example. I have read multiple reports where self rescue is mentioned

 

post #39 of 45

lw210, No books on self rescue, I have taught tree climbing for a decade and have rock climbed for over 20. Have had to self rescue out of a snowwell after I was snowsnaked by a shrub and my buddies left me hanging upside down by one ski.  Thankfully the pack was on and after getting the multitool out was able to cut the offending limb 30 minutes later I was skiing with a strained knee, so great counting on buddies.

Best bet accept there are days you will have to just skip skiing due to the avy hazards.

post #40 of 45

Cord, biners, straps were suggested from a practical 'multi-use/gear first aid' perspective. There are zillions of uses including lashing a boot to a ski if a binding fails, rigging stuff to a pack if the capacity is exceeded, schlepping gear over stream crossings, etc, etc.....
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post


I know why you would bring carabiners and cord but unless you have some knowledge of practical knots and such I feel like the equipment could be more of a liability than a help. Trying to rescue someone using simple over hand knots could end in even more tragedy
post #41 of 45

Chances are it means they were buried in a way they were able to free themself (ie only partially buried, were able to free their arms or get to surface before snow consolidated, many possible scenarios).  If you are fully buried, you have a much less likely chance of self-rescuing, period, there shouldn't even be an argument on this.  I'm not saying it isn't possible (for example the two guys who self-rescued after both were fully buried for almost an hour in the Gore range and survived in large part due to their avalungs), but it's rare and you shouldn't be relying solely on your "self-rescue skills"... yes you should be prepared to react properly if you are caught in a slide, but that shouldn't be your only line of defense... having a good partner (keyword being "good") is only going to increase your odds of survival.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post

Then what does this from the Colroado Avalanch INforamtion Center mean:  

On Saturday a rider was buried and self-rescued in a small avalanche in the backcountry west of Beaver Creek.

 

That's only one example. I have read multiple reports where self rescue is mentioned

 

post #42 of 45

Personally I think the most important thing to bring is knowledge and a brain that knows how to use it.  The best way to avoid getting injured or killed in an avalanche is to not get into one in the first place. 

 

But yes, beacon practice is very important.  So are probing and digging skills. 

post #43 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tam View Post

Chances are it means they were buried in a way they were able to free themself (ie only partially buried, were able to free their arms or get to surface before snow consolidated, many possible scenarios).  If you are fully buried, you have a much less likely chance of self-rescuing, period, there shouldn't even be an argument on this.  I'm not saying it isn't possible (for example the two guys who self-rescued after both were fully buried for almost an hour in the Gore range and survived in large part due to their avalungs), but it's rare and you shouldn't be relying solely on your "self-rescue skills"... yes you should be prepared to react properly if you are caught in a slide, but that shouldn't be your only line of defense... having a good partner (keyword being "good") is only going to increase your odds of survival.

 

Quote:


 


I agree and don't see my self ever venturing out alone. I was just curious as to whether or not there were any specific things that could be done to help your self out. I am of the opinion that the more knowledge you have the more options you have and therefore the higher chance of survival you have. 

post #44 of 45

Had a friend get caught in a slide, he ended up with his head out but arms and legs trapped, now the bad news the slide had forced snow into his mouth and nose and even with his head out he was choking and dying. His ski partner who took him out and knew the area was there and was able to clear his airways and then dig him out. Happy Ending

 

When asked later he said he tried but the frozen iceball was to big and hard to bite apart.

post #45 of 45

TD, that reminded me of a scary moment in bounds this year. I double ejected in dense, wet snow and landed on my back (fortunately) and head under the snow stuck downhill. Fortunately I could see light and clear the snow to breath. If I ended up face down and head stuck, who knows. It reminded me of the snowboarder on a heli trip who got her head wedged under a rock at a stream crossing and died.

 

It doesn't necessarily require an avy to create a problem. With challenging snow conditions and terrain, even tree wells, there are plenty of other things that also need your attention.....and a partner close enough to help.

 

Another, on a cat ski trip, in bottomless powder, I also had a dual ejection in a forward fall. The snow was so deep and light that there was absolutely no platform to support my weight. It felt like I was drowning in deep snow trying to wade and keep the snow out of my airway. Fortunately, another skier was near and I could use his skis as a platform.

 

It is important to try and not panic and get the airway clear ASAP. If someone has to spend minutes versus seconds to help, it could be too late.

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