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Need help finding a midfat powder ski...

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

Ok, here's the deal.

 

I'm 30 years old, 6'1", 220 lbs, ski about 50 days a year.  I live in Colorado, and normally ski the smaller areas (Monarch, Loveland, A-Basin, and this year have a pass to Sunlight as the girlfriend lives in Glenwood Springs).

 

Current quiver:

2007 K2 Recons 178 cm (78 waist) for hard snow days- Great on hard snow, decent in powder, SUCK in crud (the crud constantly pushes the ski around.

 

2003 Atomic Sugar Daddies 183 cm (99 waist, have hostage plate)- Great pow ski, great on crud, Good on all but the hardest snow. I ski these unless I know there is no soft snow to be found.  Problem is, I am running out of edge to grind, and will soon need to retire these, so I need a replacement.

 

I am an advanced/expert skier, capable on skiing anything in bounds in Colorado, but commonly choose not to ski the truly nasty stuff unless I like the snow.

 

I prefer STEEP powder runs (Highlands Bowl, The Heathen/East Ride at Sunlight, etc.).  I can appreciate mogul runs, but a knee injury from 10 years ago means that I can't do more than 2-3 mogul runs in a day without knee pain cutting the day short.

 

The girlfriend, as well as several other ski friends, are all developing skiers, so my typical day is split between skiing groomers, me coaxing gf onto some tougher stuff to develop her skills, and me splitting off and hitting some of the more adventurous runs while they ski the easy stuff back to the lift. This means that I need a ski that will be acceptable on hard snow.

 

The Daddies are in my opinion a stiff ski, and I have come to really appreciate it.  They take a bit more effort to turn, but reward with a confidence inspring grip and control.  They are NOT a finesse ski, but a ski that wants to hit in hard and hold a turn. They make moguls fun, because the stiffness makes the ski very easy to pop and self-unweight when you drive it over the top of the mogul.  Likewise, they hold a line extremely well in heavy crud- very confidence inspiring.

 

For a replacement, I am interested in a ski with some rocker, perhaps a rocker tip rather than full, with some underfoot camber. I want to keep around 95-105mm, but am interested in over 105 if the ski still have decent hard snow manners. I am not interested in smaller than 95. I do not need a ski that is as stiff as the Daddies, but I think my preference is towards the stiff end.

 

Also, I want to be able to score a flat ski in the $400 range, so am looking for either 2009-2010 models or waiting till the beginning of next season.

 

What should I be looking at? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #2 of 27

Except for the price there are three skis that should fit your requirements nicely; the Rossi S7, the Volkl Katana and the Salomon Shogun (widest to narrowest).  I've owned/own all three and they all have the traits you are looking for.  Unfortunately none of those will be available anywhere close to your price range (unless used).  Elan is making great skies and makes a ski similar to the Katana; it is the Olympus Mon.  Because Elan doesn't have the high profile of some of the other brands you might be able to score one of those after the season, but even that I think is less than 50/50 (but keep an eye on dawgcatching.com).  My understanding is that due to the economy many manufacturers scaled back production this year and last.  Wish I could be more help.

post #3 of 27

I'll add a couple skis to the non-price range category - DPS Wailer 112RP and ON3P Wrenegade.  You may have a decent chance of finding these skis used on TGR for close to your price range.  One of these skis will be mine next year...

post #4 of 27

I've been skiing the S3 this year and find it a really fun ski. Handles steeps, hard snow, and bumps well.

 

Skied Whistler in 6 inches of heavier snow and they floated quite well. The S7's are obviously going to be much better in the deeper stuff, but is not gong to perform as well on the harder snow. As said above, I doubt you'll be able to find these skis in your price range.

 

The older goat (pre-rocker) was a great all around ski and handles the hard snow fine. Maybe find a used pair?

post #5 of 27

Gee......you don't want much..........biggrin.gif

 

There was not very much in the 100-105mm range from 09-10 that had rocker, tip or otherwise. The SD was exceptional on hard snow for it's width and it's era. I doubt that most of the more recent skis will hold up to that example. As long as you are willing to accept some compromise there The K2 Sidestash or Hardside, Atomic Coax, Dynastar Legend Pro, Nordica Enforcer and Line P-100 are possible finds with some having rocker and some not. However, TMK most of these skis have been sold out for some time in the good sizes so you may not have too much luck there. Of current skis, the Blizzard Argos comes to mind in the width range and edge grip you are looking at but I suspect you won't have much luck with your $400 budget. If last season was an indication, the better models and sizes may be well gone by early summer again. I'd suggest that you up your budget by ~~ $125 and buy in March when the first sales go off. You will probably pay more but if you wait for the $400 bell to sound, you may well come up dry or have to settle for a less desirable choice.

 

SJ

post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 

Atomic Coax sounds in line with what I am looking for.

 

Anody know anything about the Atomic Access?  They look promising...

 

Rossi S6 vs. the S3?

post #7 of 27

Not exactly what you're looking for, but i just picked up some new 2009 K2 Coombas from Evo Gear. Outlet special. $435 with bindings. Was about $300 w/o bindings. I have not yet skied them in powder, but they are 102 mm under foot and supposed to be pretty good in pow. Not the newest tech like the S7, but I am old and will settle for tried and true tech rather than a new trick, which being old, I probably couldn't learn anyway. Just my 2 cents.    

post #8 of 27

$ becomes your problem.  Also recommend the older Goats if you can find used.  I have 08-09 model 183 and love them.  Also have S7 and don't particularly like on hard pack.  Tip rocker would be a good way to go but $ may be a problem in your range.  Check the web, E bay, TGR, here etc.

post #9 of 27

It sounds like you've described the Salomon Shogun perfectly.  101mm.  Tip Rocker.  And it looks cool.  Shop around to find one for $400.

post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 
The shogun looks neat, but is it really a $400 range ski? A quick glance online, and I don't see it for under $540.

Still, thanks for the heads up. I wouldn't normally consider a salmon.
post #11 of 27

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maui Steve View Post

Not exactly what you're looking for, but i just picked up some new 2009 K2 Coombas from Evo Gear. Outlet special. $435 with bindings. Was about $300 w/o bindings. I have not yet skied them in powder, but they are 102 mm under foot and supposed to be pretty good in pow. Not the newest tech like the S7, but I am old and will settle for tried and true tech rather than a new trick, which being old, I probably couldn't learn anyway. Just my 2 cents.    


Hey Steve -- that's what I have!  I like them a lot.  I had a great day on them 2 weeks ago at Wolf Creek skiing the "oh, nobody found this" powder.  I'm not sure how much the OP would like them, though. They don't seem all that stiff (which is fine with me).

Maybe we can ski together again someday.

 

Which size did you get?

 

On the other hand, with a good tune the Coomba is very good on hardpack and moguls, so maybe the OP would like it after all...
 

 

 

post #12 of 27

I've only skied them one day, and just on hard pack, but really liked them. I got 181's. feels right so far.Agree that not very stiff, which is fine for what i intend to use them for.  Looking forward to using them on some utah powder. My son Nick did end up going to U of utah so I have some more excuses to head that way. Let me know if you're ever headed to Utah as it wouldn't take much for me to make an impromptu trip.

post #13 of 27

May be off on this, but under the impression that the Shogun is a fairly light ski of moderate flex. Definitely true for older Goats, owned several. And neither the S3 or the S7 (own latter) are what I'd choose for a one ski quiver when OP uses terms like hardpack, edge grip, stiff ski several times. We all have skis we love, but let's pay attention to what the guy is saying.

 

Agree with SJ about Coax and Enforcer (take a hard look at this one, great on hardpack for a 98), would add that there are plenty of older LPR's around that fit the bill except for rocker. Once in a while you'll see a Head Mojo 94 pop up, also appropriate except for rocker. Blizzard Atlas will be cheap soon, great mixed conditions ski for bigger guys. (And although SJ has a chip implanted in his parietal to prevent him from typing the words "Mantra" and "good" in the same sentence, it's a versatile, stiff crud buster/light pow ski that handles hardpack better than your SD, and taper makes it great in tight places.)

 

But for all of these, deal is this: If you keep a ski for a while (and sounds as if you do), then it's worth investing more than $400 in it, even if that means you have to wait. For $550-$650 you can get something nice in March or April. Just my .02

post #14 of 27

you have to forget the money limit, or forget everything else. don't buy used if you're a committed skier; skis get used up. don't buy cheap either; stay out of restaurants for a while and you'll have the dough.

 

sounds like you have described the Shogun. just buy it. I've ridden it and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. In two years, it has become very popular in Tahoe. lively, energetic, light, nimble, solid too. and well made.

 

IMO, skip the Gotama; just so you know: everyone doesn't like them. I don't, for one. my friends don't. Lots of people don't, though around here you might have the impression that it has universal acceptance. In fact, it has a lot of detractors for a lot of different reasons. it should not be known as a go to ski, like the Mantra through the years, or maybe the Shogun just starting its reign.

post #15 of 27
Save up and buy the K2 Sidestash. It's extremely versatile at 107 underfoot, and can even be fun on harder snow
post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the advice.  I was able to flex a Shogun and Coax in the shop after skiing today, both are pretty similar in stiffness to my Daddies, and I like the dimensions

 

I like how the Katanas feel as well, now I just have to start looking

 

I understand what people are saying about goats (and Volkls in general) not having universal acceptance- my younger brother, who lives in Snowmass and is far and away a better skier than I am, hates them along with pretty much any stiff ski.  He likes flopping around on Obsethed and Hellbents, and looks amazing doing it, but, I've got more leg strength than him (just not the endurance) and my style seems to lend towards stiffer ski that I can drive rather than finesse.

 

Again, this has been a HUGE help to get an idea of what I should be looking at.  Because my current skis still have some life, I'll keep skiing them (had a great day on them today) while looking for the deal.

 

Again, thanks. The shogun is the one I am most interested in, and that was not even on my radar before this thread. 

post #17 of 27
Thread Starter 

Anybody have experience with the Volkl Katana?

 

Local si shop has a set of new 2009's for a good price. 

 

They are 176 cm, which is a tad short of what I normally ski. Would these ski longer or shorter?

post #18 of 27

I have friends who really like the ski. however, even in that strong ski, 176 for you seems too short.

post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 

Yeah, the size is what made me walk away from it, but before totally giving up, I figured I'd get a second opinion.

 

I liked that the salesguy told me "Nobody really skis on stuff bigger than this anymore."  hmm...

post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post

Anybody have experience with the Volkl Katana?

 

Local si shop has a set of new 2009's for a good price. 

 

They are 176 cm, which is a tad short of what I normally ski. Would these ski longer or shorter?


you should be on a 190cm Katana...

 

With that said if you can find a pair that doesnt have the powder channel its a rocking ski. Stiffer than the old SD with maybe a slightly softer tail but much easier to handle because its sidewall and rockered.

 

Better at everything than the SD except for the GS turns on hardsnow. Even better in tighter turns on hardpack because there is nothing to catch in the tip and tail.

 

The standout IMO around 100 are these

 

Blizzard Argos 187cm

Line P100  186cm

 

some of the wider skis worth looking at are

 

Line P115

Volkl Katana

Elan Olympus Mons

 

 

post #21 of 27

a friend asked me to route out the powder channel on the '09 (?) model I think. she wanted the tail to push around more easily I think. may have bought it long. what would be the effect of turning it into a true swallow-tail, just wondering. sorry for the hijack; hope it doesn't take things away from your search, but since BW mentioned an effect of the powder channel, I was interested in what effect people think it has.

post #22 of 27
Thread Starter 

Why do people remove the powder channel?

 

And what is it supposed to do?

post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

a friend asked me to route out the powder channel on the '09 (?) model I think. she wanted the tail to push around more easily I think. may have bought it long. what would be the effect of turning it into a true swallow-tail, just wondering. sorry for the hijack; hope it doesn't take things away from your search, but since BW mentioned an effect of the powder channel, I was interested in what effect people think it has.


He's not saying to remove the powder channel, he's saying to look for one that never had it as that is indicative of it being the newer reverse-cambered model.

post #24 of 27

just wondering if anyone has taken out the lucite fill piece, beside myself, making a swallowtail somewhat like the Sanouk, but smaller. the lucite insert cracks, chips, splits.

post #25 of 27


 

Quote:
snip...

With that said if you can find a pair that doesnt have the powder channel its a rocking ski. Stiffer than the old SD with maybe a slightly softer tail but much easier to handle because its sidewall and rockered.

 


 

Question for someone skiing the Katana.
Why would the Katana having a sidewall make it easier to handle?  Didn't the Katana with the channel have sidewall construction? Is it therefore a rockin', easy-to-handle ski also? I think the Katana with the channel was considered a tough and burly ski. The OP did say that he didn't mind if a ski was a little hard to turn because the performance gain was grip and control in his experience, so he may not equate easy with rockin'. just sayin'.

 

anac: someone would remove the powder channel to make a swallowtail, which was originally designed to make pushing the tail around easier while retaining the maximum amount of edge. I haven't had a chance to ask how it worked as we've had no powder.

 

post #26 of 27

The idea behind swallow tails isn't to "make them easier to push around".  The idea is to allow the tail to sink faster than the tip in deep snow thus providing additional forebody lift.

post #27 of 27


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post


 

Quote:
snip...

With that said if you can find a pair that doesnt have the powder channel its a rocking ski. Stiffer than the old SD with maybe a slightly softer tail but much easier to handle because its sidewall and rockered.

 


 

Question for someone skiing the Katana.
Why would the Katana having a sidewall make it easier to handle?  Didn't the Katana with the channel have sidewall construction? Is it therefore a rockin', easy-to-handle ski also? I think the Katana with the channel was considered a tough and burly ski. The OP did say that he didn't mind if a ski was a little hard to turn because the performance gain was grip and control in his experience, so he may not equate easy with rockin'. just sayin'.

 

anac: someone would remove the powder channel to make a swallowtail, which was originally designed to make pushing the tail around easier while retaining the maximum amount of edge. I haven't had a chance to ask how it worked as we've had no powder.

 

 

the thing is the Sd had one of the stiffest tails and was just overly edgy on hardpack when you actually had to steer a ski. I was 160lb and had issue with the ski, id be the first to admit it.  the new katana nearly matches it in stability on hardsnow  while being better at everything else. The katana sidewalls make 'feeling" the edge for lack of a better term easier than a cap ski like the SD.  In fact Id go so far to say that the SD was the vaguiest feeling ski I have ever skied on. You had no idea what the edges were doing. My snoop daddy pre sidewall had the same crappy on snow feel. Since my Snoop daddy I havent and will not buy a capped ski. Not to mention how bad the edges on the atomic cap ski held up to rock hits. Every single pair of Atomic C(R)ap skis I have ever owned died to having an edge ripped out by rocks that other skis never had a problem with.

 

 

 

The powder channel has no real affect, the skis with the Powder channel skied conventional. the new one with the full continuous low rise rocker is simply one of the easiest rocker designs to get use to, and is highly effective at bull dozing rougher snow or doing short turns in tree. The best thing about the new Katana is it skis very much like a normal ski, except that it doesnt at the same time. 

 


 

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