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Armada JJ

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 

So after trying the Prophet 100's and getting a hooky feeling at high speeds I became concerned when looking at the JJ's. They have even more sidecut than the prohet's so would these skis hook and have to be on edge at all times at high speeds or does the rocker stop the hooking from happening? 

post #2 of 18

You're comparing apples to oranges with ski designs. That being said I don't now how anyone can see the P100 as a "hooky" ski. I found it very stable

post #3 of 18

.

It could definitely be hooky. It is 35mm from the waist to tip, where many skis are 30 or even 25mm. most new skis have to be on edge at all times, or they swim and wander, but not all. icon14.gif

post #4 of 18

 

I am pretty sure any hookiness can normally be eliminated with some de tuning of the tips and tails. Carry a gummy stone with you and start de tuning an inch at a time from the tip and tail and see what you think. I have some new skis with sharp edges that hooked up a bit when I was last on them. I will be doing the above when I am out on them next week.
post #5 of 18

You have asked this question twice in here and twice at TGR. 

 

Like I wrote on TGR I think that the Armada JJ is more unstable than the Prophets when straightlining and doing big GS turns. The JJ, like all 5 point skis, get a very short running length on hard snow and this equals less stability. They are different skis, but none of them are particularly hooky. Regardless I think your problem is something else.

post #6 of 18

What gzon said.  You're equating a published tight turn radius with a deep sidecut, but that's not the case on a fun shape (5-point design) ski.  The reason for the short turn radius is the very short running length when in 2D conditions, but that's not what these skis were designed to excel in.

 

Your posts on here and on TGR make me realize that you need to either do more soul searching to figure out what you really want out of these skis or get on more demos of different types of skis.

post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2 ski View Post

 

I am pretty sure any hookiness can normally be eliminated with some de tuning of the tips and tails. Carry a gummy stone with you and start de tuning an inch at a time from the tip and tail and see what you think. I have some new skis with sharp edges that hooked up a bit when I was last on them. I will be doing the above when I am out on them next week.


Maybe that's why prophets never felt hooky. I'm a fan of an aggresive detune

post #8 of 18

The JJ has a triple sidecut, not to mention substantial tip and tail rocker.  It is the "anti-carving" ski, so do not expect it to be well behaved on hardpack.  You can probably safely assume that any ski designed to go backwards in powder is going to have personality defects on hardpack, regardless of how it is tuned or detuned.

post #9 of 18

I found the JJ to be a lot of fun on firm groomers.  It carves just fine.  The 185 that I demoed felt like a 160 ish wide slalom ski.  The ends are very soft, but the center is stiff and it felt solid when skied from the center.  I ski the 188 S7 almost everyday and it is similar.  I liked the JJ better on the groomers the day I demoed them back to back.  I would like to ski the JJ in the conditions it was designed for.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

The JJ has a triple sidecut, not to mention substantial tip and tail rocker.  It is the "anti-carving" ski, so do not expect it to be well behaved on hardpack.  You can probably safely assume that any ski designed to go backwards in powder is going to have personality defects on hardpack, regardless of how it is tuned or detuned.

post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

The JJ has a triple sidecut, not to mention substantial tip and tail rocker.  It is the "anti-carving" ski, so do not expect it to be well behaved on hardpack.  You can probably safely assume that any ski designed to go backwards in powder is going to have personality defects on hardpack, regardless of how it is tuned or detuned.



Uh, no? Anti carving ski would be a pontoon or something.

 

It skies like a fatter SL ski on hard pack.

post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by karpiel View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

The JJ has a triple sidecut, not to mention substantial tip and tail rocker.  It is the "anti-carving" ski, so do not expect it to be well behaved on hardpack.  You can probably safely assume that any ski designed to go backwards in powder is going to have personality defects on hardpack, regardless of how it is tuned or detuned.



Uh, no? Anti carving ski would be a pontoon or something.

 

It skies like a fatter SL ski on hard pac
 

Pardon my inartful choice of words, but the JJ have a cambered section that is less than 100 cm. So the 174 JJ has a 12 meter turn radius built into about 85 cm of usable carving area, and the OP is worried that it might have a "hooky feeling at high speeds." I would say his concern is justified.

 

A lot of people on this forum talk about using 115 mm waisted rockered boards for their everyday skis, and I think the concept of carving is starting to lose perspective.  When half of the running length of your ski is flapping at high speed on hardpack, it is hard for me to call it an acceptable carving ski.  Yeah, it'll get you to the lift, but it is pretty much built to do that as an afterthought.

post #12 of 18


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by karpiel View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by mudfoot View Post

The JJ has a triple sidecut, not to mention substantial tip and tail rocker.  It is the "anti-carving" ski, so do not expect it to be well behaved on hardpack.  You can probably safely assume that any ski designed to go backwards in powder is going to have personality defects on hardpack, regardless of how it is tuned or detuned.



Uh, no? Anti carving ski would be a pontoon or something.

 

It skies like a fatter SL ski on hard pac
 

Pardon my inartful choice of words, but the JJ have a cambered section that is less than 100 cm. So the 174 JJ has a 12 meter turn radius built into about 85 cm of usable carving area, and the OP is worried that it might have a "hooky feeling at high speeds." I would say his concern is justified.

 

A lot of people on this forum talk about using 115 mm waisted rockered boards for their everyday skis, and I think the concept of carving is starting to lose perspective.  When half of the running length of your ski is flapping at high speed on hardpack, it is hard for me to call it an acceptable carving ski.  Yeah, it'll get you to the lift, but it is pretty much built to do that as an afterthought.

 

 

Just curious, have you skied JJ's? You can lay them over almost as easily as a "carving" ski, drive them and shoot out of turns. The hard pack performance isn't an afterthought, it's a feature of the ski.

 

 

 

post #13 of 18

Karpiel:

 

I have a buddy who has been skiing them since they came out, but admittedly I've only tried them for a few of runs.  They are fantastic in soft snow, but they have reverse sidecut in the front and back of the ski, which made them feel like kids skis on hardpack to me.  When you say "lay them over almost as easily as a carving ski," you are talking about coming off of the fat part of the JJ in front of and behind the cambered section, both of which are over 130 mm wide, at which point it is a long way back to the other edge of the ski.  As you pointed out, they carve better than a completely reverse sidecut Pontoon, but they still have two reverse sidecut sections that I thought made them very squirrely at speed on hard snow.  I believe that you can "shoot out of turns" on them, because they do not let you finish a carved turn.  There is just not that much edge with sidecut going in the right direction.

 

I am not knocking the JJ.  It is a very cool ski, and I came very close to buying a pair myself, but the cambered sidecut section is so deep and short that IMO they are way too twitchy to enjoy hardpack.  Perhaps you and Tetonpwdrjunkie are a much better skiers than I am, but I found it tedious to have to pay so much attention on the groomers to make them behave.

 

MF

post #14 of 18

I have a pair of 185 JJs I bought last fall and love them on soft snow and soft crud.  No hooking that I can see.  Too long for me, BTW - I am 5'9", a good but not expert skier, 175 lb.  Great on the powder, though.  I am planning to sell them and get some shorter ones.  I would recommend them to anyone for pow - they really just take over and handle it for you.

post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyeomans1 View Post

I have a pair of 185 JJs I bought last fall and love them on soft snow and soft crud.  No hooking that I can see.  Too long for me, BTW - I am 5'9", a good but not expert skier, 175 lb.  Great on the powder, though.  I am planning to sell them and get some shorter ones.  I would recommend them to anyone for pow - they really just take over and handle it for you.



They really aren't to long for you.

post #16 of 18

OK, I guess it is just skill. Maybe a need a bit of instruction on how to ski on them.  I am up at Squaw now, supposed to get some snow tomorrow and Friday, but I of course was not expecting it and did not bring them.  I am a decent level 7/8, but have very little experience on powder skis.

post #17 of 18

The same person who says Alta is flat says Prophet 100s are hooky?roflmao.gif

 

post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by karpiel View Post
Just curious, have you skied JJ's? You can lay them over almost as easily as a "carving" ski, drive them and shoot out of turns. The hard pack performance isn't an afterthought, it's a feature of the ski.


I think Mudfoot is speaking more to a degraded definition of "carving." If you're decent, you can carve any ski. Period. You can drive any ski, if you mean forward pressure the tips. But if the JJ is anything like my S7's, I don't think "shoot out of turns" is how I'd describe it, and  "almost as easily" covers a lot of ground. Increasing numbers of folks here haven't made a serious, hip-dragging carved turn on a serious, eg, race-ish, carver since Monica started smoking cigars...

 

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