EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › best type of skis for instructor?!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

best type of skis for instructor?! - Page 2

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Proof View Post

 

Uncle Louie,

 

Thanks for adding some common sense to a very basic question.icon14.gif  This thread proves that common sense is not so common.


Thanks for the nod LP. 

 

I live about an hour from the Perfect North Ski area and sat through their orientation meeting last year when I was thinking about teaching there.  Their requirements didn't match my typical winter travel schedule so I decided against joining the school there.  Given that, I am able to provide some pretty accurate information to the OP which I hope helps.

post #32 of 46
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post

 

jobsoccar,

 

Well now that everybody has run off on their usual tangents, I'll try to help you.

 

Matthias had it almost 100% right at the beginning, but doesn't have the local knowledge of where you may be teaching.  (Are they still charging $179 for the uniform jacket ?)  You are going to be teaching mostly (if not exclusively) low level adults and children on some very flat terrain.  The school at Perfect North has several PSIA Examiners on staff and many certified instructors so you will probably never see a class above wedge christie (and even that is a stretch) .  If you have never taught before (anywhere) you will be mostly in clinics (one day a week there all season for first time instructors) and teaching 1st timers as that is how they operate there with their staff.

 

The hill is a 500 bump in the topography and is almost exclusively man made snow.  You'll be required to teach at least one night a week.  The conditions will range from really nice machine made groomed to solid ice and bottomless slush.  It there is a powder day (maybe once or twice yearly.......6 " maybe)  it would be some pretty wet heavy stuff and would hold up at night and turn to soggy potatoes during the day, but they usually groom it before it gets to that point.

 

To teach there, you need to be on a forgiving ski, relatively short (165 range would do it) so you can "run around on them and pick up beginners", and make slow controlled demo's easily. A slightly turned up tail would help, but I wouldn't go full twin tip.  You don't need it...........there is nothing soft enough to sink into while backing up.  You can take free runs (if you have time) on the gear you already have.  I wouldn't go over 85 underfoot if you are going to be mostly hanging at Perfect North.

 

If you end up going east you may need to upgrade your gear for your own personal skiing pleasure as by then your existing skis may need to be replaced.  Judgment call there.

If you head west there is no question you will need to consider some of the gear (and ideas) that others have posted about in this thread.  A good soft snow ski  and / or wider for skiing on your days off. 


Thank you so much, you've finially answered my question!!!
 

post #33 of 46

     Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri View Post
The only valid affirmation of one's skiing is a statement of skill from someone else, and the greater that skier's experience and knowledge, the more meaningful the comment. I'm not about to post up a lot of pictures and video, or talk about my ability, it's not how I roll. as always, really, peace man.


Since the thread has served its purpose and the OP is satisfied I thought we should finish off this "tangent" too.  I've skied with BWPA.  No matter what you might think of the videos and pics he posts of his skiing I have skied with him and he absolutely rips - anything on the mountain, top to bottom - and he gets the style points too.  Yes he's young and brash, but don't question the guy's skiing.

 

Personally I'd like to see everyone put up video and pics of their skiing.  I would think it would be beneficial to the members and this forum in general to have video evidence of skiing skills from the regulars around here.

post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

 

Personally I'd like to see everyone put up video and pics of their skiing.  I would think it would be beneficial to the members and this forum in general to have video evidence of skiing skills from the regulars around here.


susanbradmark_0003.jpg

 

Ok, next ...

 

 

post #35 of 46

 this is a ski forum. lots of people can ski, and none of us doubt that. but hardly anyone can claim any exclusive high terrain on that basis; there are just too many excellent skiers.

 

you have spoken for BW, so he's OK, got that, but question his skiing? that's like the fourth shove you're seeing. no one's picking on his skiing.

post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

 

Personally I'd like to see everyone put up video and pics of their skiing.  I would think it would be beneficial to the members and this forum in general to have video evidence of skiing skills from the regulars around here.


susanbradmark_0003.jpg

 

Ok, next ...

 

 

 

Love it.  Must be somewhere between 1988 - 1992?  I can play that game too - just have to fire up my scanner. wink.gif
 

post #37 of 46


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

Love it.  Must be somewhere between 1988 - 1992?  I can play that game too - just have to fire up my scanner. wink.gif
 


I wish ... probably not later than 1983. I think those were my orange Olins, which were 180s (I remember because I was so happy to get them because you weren't allowed to ski Outhouse with skis shorter than that). My next skis were red Heads, 190 or 195, and I think that was 1984ish. Those for sure aren't 190s, they don't even look 180. If so, that would make it about 1981. eek.gif  Or maybe I used to be 6'4". If I could see the sunglasses better, I'd know for sure. Although Philpug can probably tell from my poles ...

post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

     Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri View Post
The only valid affirmation of one's skiing is a statement of skill from someone else, and the greater that skier's experience and knowledge, the more meaningful the comment. I'm not about to post up a lot of pictures and video, or talk about my ability, it's not how I roll. as always, really, peace man.


Since the thread has served its purpose and the OP is satisfied I thought we should finish off this "tangent" too.  I've skied with BWPA.  No matter what you might think of the videos and pics he posts of his skiing I have skied with him and he absolutely rips - anything on the mountain, top to bottom - and he gets the style points too.  Yes he's young and brash, but don't question the guy's skiing.

 

Personally I'd like to see everyone put up video and pics of their skiing.  I would think it would be beneficial to the members and this forum in general to have video evidence of skiing skills from the regulars around here.


"top to bottom," really? "with style," wow! " anything," incredible...

 

post #39 of 46

^^^^ Davluri, I will agree with Noodler about BWPA, both from a video I watched, from his comments, and from the fact he's a Level III; he's patently good at what he does. I wish he would bother to use our language properly, and I may not share some of his definitions of what's worthwhile skiing, but hey, can't have everything...

 

That said, don't especially like the idea of video as necessary and sufficient for cred. First, not sure many of us are qualified (motion analysis anyone?) to judge a skier's strengths and weaknesses from a amateur video clip probably with ah, lousy production values (meaning grainy, shaky, skier is a dark shape far up the slope then whizzing by). So are we supposed to have professional crews shoot us for a few K, so our opinions can be respected here?

 

Second, a lot of the questions here are technical in nature, meaning (gasp) math and science. I'll take an intermediate engineer or doctor over most elite experts who were English majors.

 

Third, I gain a lot of information from reading what Level 6-8's have to say about skis or skiing. Teachers usually learn from their students. 

 

Fourth, doubt many of us here are as good as we think we are. Noodler included. Even BPWA could be ripped apart by a pro who teachers pros. So what's the line? If a guy slides every third left turn, does his review get a -3, but if he has good CM, he adds back +2 ? Personal critique never ends, guys. We already plenty (of non-visual) here, we have it in Washington, we have it at work, we have it in schools, where teachers have to worry more about national testing than teaching individual children. Do you really want to start a purity test here for someone's review of an all-mountain? 

post #40 of 46

OK, new tangent continues...

 

I didn't say anything about "scoring" videos or doing any kind of MA.  I just want to see how "you" ski (meaning everyone).  Amateur quality video/pics would be sufficient as long as the skier can be seen clearly.  Personally I have nothing to hide - plenty of fellow bears have skied with me.  I would hope that other Bears would be willing to post video/pics of themselves also - especially the most vocal ones in regard to their gear opinions and ski technique diatribes.

 

Seeing is believing.  I put much more stock in gear opinions and instructional skiing info from the people I've skied with.  I pretty much discount everyone else automatically.

 

If we could get a thread started where only video/pics of skiers can be posted and the mods would wipe out any critique/MA of the skiing then forum members might feel more inclined to posting into that thread and I believe the membership as a whole would benefit from gaining a better understanding of the skier behind the posts.

post #41 of 46

I never thought anyone was serious about getting everyone's picture up. what a concept. I can tell a lot from a couple photos, so for me it would be interesting.  And, as you said, it would be an indication if a person's viewpoints are supported by experience.  Basically, all that is somewhat in place currently. We have a few members who have posted pictures running gates: pretty clear where they are coming from.icon14.gif Other photos indicate various things.rolleyes.gif I'll always remember the cool shot of VA cruising powder on his Spatulas.cool.gif It's worth a thousand words. Not to mention the ritual he performs out in the meadow.

 

There is a problem of course: even looking at a clear picture, people will judge a person by the history of their mutual conflict, rather than the merits of the skiing in the picture.

 

No one's going to post in that thread, but people could work on their Albums a little, if they want to be vested by the authorities that be. icon14.gif

 

A mediocre skier in this context is a skier, within the category of expert, who is middling in that group. So don't worry that BW is not appreciated for his talent. It's just the norm where I roll, so it's hard to get all hot and bothered. 

post #42 of 46

Well, while we're disgressing, I used to teach on 207 Rossi 7XKs, and I just tried them again last week, and can't see how anyone could ski them, but lots of us did and were happy on them.

 

Now back to bushwacker's forum.

 

And I have a video of my Norwegian snow cat tearing through about 8" of new snow after some rodent...Does this count?

post #43 of 46

I teach in the NW region. Normally, we ski & teach on groomed to slush and thick powder, depending upon the level of class. I have been using 2 different ski: Rossi Classic 70's for that racing, hard snow coverage and the Rossi Avenger TI82 for softer coverage. The 70's are a 12 meter turn radius ski, while the 82's are a 17 meter ski. Now, I'm looking for a bit wider ski to handle deeper conditions. The 82 is not big enough, but good for about 90% of what I need. A great teaching ski.

 

My suggestion is that if you're in the East with harder snow, a narrower carving ski is preferable. No wider than 88mm. But out west, I think a wider ski is better, like 98, 112, etc. An 88mm would be the minimum, which Rossi makes with their Experience 88.

post #44 of 46

Last year was my first year as an instructor. Midwest area with hard pack and lots of kids groups.

I had to get skis because the area wanted all instructors on shaped skis and I had 188 K2 Merlins.

I bought a pair of 167 cm K2 high performance demo's from the ski shop and wound up on them all year. The kids spent almost as much time on the tops as I spent on the bottoms so they were the right choice. They were even good for all the instructor clinic sessions we did.

This year I got a 170 cm all mountain ski for working on my L1 and free skiing. I am also in the market for something between 130 and 140 cm for my teaching skis. The majority of instructors working with the kids programs use old short rental skis because it's easier to move around the teaching hill and demo the drills on shorter skis.

The skis your teaching on don't matter that much but the boots sure do. Spend the majority of your money on boots, boot fitting and foot beds.

post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post

Good grief, guys--how can a simple question like "what is a good instructor's ski?" turn into a boasting match about your own personal skiing?

Sure, a very skilled skier (which does not, unfortunately, describe a lot of instructors in the first place) can ski pretty much any condition on pretty much any ski. But that makes no difference as far as the original question, does it?

The answer to the question is simple. The optimal ski for teaching is the exact same ski, in the same condition, as your student is on. That guarantees the most relevance and the most accessibility of your demos to the student's needs and capabilities. It's the same reason you don't demonstrate your best, highest-speed ripping carved turns to show a beginner how to make a basic, low-speed turn. Effective demos need to be something the skier could reasonably aspire to, and should look pretty much like what their turns will look like when they get it "right."

That said, "optimal" isn't always possible, or practical. As an instructor, you can't always know where your next lesson is going to take you, or what level skiers you will be working with. Even when you do know--which, as Uncle Louie has described well, you probably will as a new instructor--you cannot know exactly what skis your students will show up on. So a good practical instructor ski is a good, middle-of-the-road ski that is not going to be too far from what you expect your students to be on. I cringe when I see an instructor "teaching" a group of beginners while riding on a pair of monstrously wide, long, reverse camber planks. Skis like that bear very little resemblance to what your students will be on, and your demos--no matter how skillful you may be--will hardly look like their performance. It is very unprofessional.

On the other hand, I often go to lineup with a pair of full race-stock slalom skis. Ironically, at 165cm and with deep sidecut, they are not that different in size or shape from a typical beginner's rental ski. But I can also take a high-level skier into the race course, or work with intermediate skiers on anything. If I have to take them into bumps, crud, or powder, it's my problem, not my students' problem, and I can handle them there just fine. Yes, if I know that I'm going to ski with a particular level student, or in a particular type of terrain, or if I know in advance what skis my students will be on, I'll try to match their skis as closely as I can.

But that still doesn't really answer the original question here, does it? I have an extensive selection of skis to choose from, so I can pick with specific purpose. When I'm teaching, I still choose with my students' needs in mind, as much as possible. That is not the situation the original poster has described, however.

Jobsoccer, to answer your question, I would recommend that you own two pairs of skis. One should be basic beginners' learning skis, similar to what most of your students will likely be on. They are not expensive, and you may well be able to buy a used pair from the rental shop. These are your "work skis," and they're ideally suited for what you'll be doing most of the time. They'll get used a lot, and they'll get skied over, walked on, banged up, nicked, chipped and generally abused. The other pair should be a good, all-around, versatile ski that you enjoy skiing on yourself, that you will keep well-tuned and ski for pleasure, but that you probably won't teach on until you teach something other than beginner lessons. That ski will depend on where you ski, and where your personal preferences lie. If you spend a lot of time in the park, you may want a twin-tip. If you lean toward carving turns or racing, it should be a narrower, curvier, high-performance ski. If you ski a lot of powder and off-piste, you'll probably prefer something a little wider and softer. The further you go to any extreme, of course, the more specialized and limited the ski becomes. But this is a ski for you, not your students, and if you can only pick one, pick the one you want. Enjoy its strengths and live with its limitations until you can supplement it with another pair.

Once you've taught for a while, you'll be able to make your own informed decisions about equipment much better. Enjoy!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes

As a man who works in academic science, this answer pleases me by far the most. It's all about controls and replication! 

post #46 of 46

Also by a guy who teaches instructors about teaching skiing: http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Encyclopedia-Skiing-Edition/dp/0966913159 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › best type of skis for instructor?!