best type of skis for instructor?!

 

for 4 year olds or 16 year olds? powder lessons, or more beginner intermediate. I'm not the instructor, but I'm guessing that information will be useful. 

1) Something that can go backwards is helpful.  Doesn't have to be a full twin-tip, but a bit of up-turn at the tail helps.

 

2) Unless you're a very high-level instructor/guide, or at a big Western resort with a lot of in-bounds ungroomed terrain, you're probably going to spend most of your teaching time on groomed, fairly tame trails.  (Of course, unless you have another pair of skis in a locker at the lodge, you may want something you can also freeski on between lessons.)

 

3) You need to be able to demo skills at all levels, from beginner wedge turns up to dynamic parallel.  If you take exams you may have to do all sorts of crazy drills (again, mostly on groomed snow or frontside bumps).  You probably don't want over-specialized skis.

 

Most carving/technical skis, or "all-mountain" skis with a frontside bias, will work great.  If you want a wider ski to freeski on, a 50/50 all-mountain or even a midfat in the high 80s-low 90s could also work.

 

I'm currently on a Fischer Progressor 9+.

mid fat twin are great all purpose tools. Carve, skids, ski backwards elect they can truly do it all.

 

BTW you guys should try some low end demos on some 'fun shapes" sometime. Me and Epic think that our wedge turns on out katanas are the easiest wedge turn we ever make.

 

I teach/coach everything on a 98mm skis with rocker, but then again I know I have the skills to make it work nearly everywhere. When someone really wants to really rip steep hardpack I go and grab my cambered boards.

I used to think it mattered. I just teach on whatever these days. I taught all day on Kastle MX88s today. S7s yesterday. MX98s tomorrow. I often teach on slaloms too.

^^^^ Interesting  comment. Do you make a choice on a given day based on conditions, or what you haven't skied in a while, or what level you're teaching or none of the above? 

All of the above. I mean I don't want to be on the totally wrong ski, but a ski is a ski and while demos on an S7 might look different from a Head RD SL, they can all be made to show what you want.

I'm far from being an instructor but the feedback I have gotten from some instructors is that a mid-fat carving ski is the way to go.   Can do it all, and if you have something like the old Monster iM88s by Head, you can even run gates with them.

2011 Volkl Bridge 171

Out here I see a lot of (serious) instructors on the Volkl Kendo this year, considered a very high priced model 'cause you won't find it on sale. When the lesson is over, ya' gotta' rock, right? 

 

and hey, you guys are role models! 

 

Remember that in the words of one instructor I know, "Oh, I use these because the rep came by and gave us a nice deal." Which is why different resorts tend to have clusters of the same skis on staff. That said, I notice that the skis I see most on lower level instructors are Extremes, various vintage skulls and scary clowns, and Walls, eg twins. The skis I see most on higher level are Tigersharks, Contact 11/Ltds, Fury's, and old K2's in the 78-84 range. Eg, work skis that are comfortable doing most anything, especially lower speed work, on harder groomed with bumps and ice. Everyone breaks out Bridges, Mojo 94's, or Seths or S6's if it snows. Haven't seen any $$$ skis on instructors, but don't ski Stowe much.  Obviously a totally different scene out west.

 

 

OP, if I were you, I'd first concentrate on finding out about the exam, practicing, ask instructors where you ski what they like for teaching low levels. I'd be less concerned about what you may want in a year or two, since you say that'll be somewhere else, but who knows where?

that 'cause you bring out the Katanas on soft snow, fresh groomed snow, med deep snow.?? I can truly say that I make my easiest turns on my Sixth Sense Huge, due to the fact they come out on the best days.
 

yeah, Squaw has a lot of pros, patrol and instructors, on K2s, (or did for a few years a while back) as they are the most aggressive promoters and get the deals out to the guys. now I see far more variety for some reason.

 

 

there were days last year when I had those out to teach only because I was skiing trees between lessons. the runs I was teaching on were near bullet proof.  camber makes no sense in low end turns even if they are round.

 

seriously you can demo nearly anything on anything. skill is skill no matter what your on.

 

as for what skis The Volkl Bridge is alot better than most people is giving it credit for. If you cant carve them its because you cant carve. I could easily Pass any PSIA exam on it, as could anyone who should pass. Remember they are looking for movement patterns and not what skis your are on. also imagine the joy of doing pivot slips in variable conditions on them ;).

 

 

It's been described a bit here this year. It's the same sandwich construction as the Mantra, wood core, 2 layers of aluminum, dampening, but it's around 85mm waist instead of Mantra's 97mm waist. Stiffness is similar. I haven't skied it unfortunately so have to ask someone else for the first person review.  Same quality as Mantra, made in Germany, not just "engineered" in Germany like Gotama etc.

 

If a skier can't make a slow turn on a cambered ski, that skier has serious issues. Conversely, ski a full rockered ski (exclusively) for years and you won't have a clue how to make a turn. camber makes no sense...? I'm not sure what you're saying: "that making turns with a cambered ski is too difficult,"?  If this is not what you are saying, then forget it, but it is hard to understand your point. low end turns? they are round? skill is skill (then why so much resistance to turning a cambered ski?), low end demo? work nearly everywhere? and so forth. The next generation coming along, racers excepted, will not be able to make a good turn, period. And they could care less. Fine. Therefore, the decline of that skill is already in full swing.  Except for powder lessons, no instructor should be out there on new fun shapes, IMO, thus the suggestions for conventional skis in this thread. I think if you showed up to teach a lesson on 98mm rockered skis, real full rocker, on packed snow, I'd ask you if you were also able to turn a cambered ski, or what?  I'd ask if you were here to joke around on those skis or teach.        

I wish that was still true. Those days seem to be pretty much over.

You are too awesome for lessons anyway though, aren't you? Just as an example, Thursday we had a small powder day, so of course I brought out the fun-shapes. With the schedule I had, it was an exercise in frustration, but I went to afternoon lineup hoping to take out the powder failures ("I'm a good skier, but I can't ski in this damn powder") and straighten them out. Instead I got an older woman who used to race at Stowe in the '50's. I did the mental math... whoa, don't want her to break a hip or anything. She was on some new Blizzard carving skis and wanted to know how to use them. I was on my ridiculous clown-shoes S7s. Rather than laugh and point, she watched and listened and learned how to use her new skis. Was it the best possible teaching tool for that situation? Absolutely not, but conversely of what you think, if you can't make a good turn on rockered skis, you are doing it wrong.

 

 

 

 

you talk a huge game with NOTHING to back it up with.

 

THe deal is skill is skill, I can make whats on my feet work better for me and show anything I need to show , 100 percent of the time. this is medicore photo but this is eastern hardpack on rockered skis, they work because the skier on them knows exactly what to do. People keep saying you cant ski powder unless your on skinny boards, I say you cant carve unlesss you can do it on fat skis. Its all about perspective.

 

 

plus you know exactly how many days I have had to demo turns like above in lessons this year? 2 days coaching a program of weekend kids who are level 8-9. Either the people arent good enough for arcing GS turns, or they have no interest.

 

BTW with all this talk of what good turns are, where are some good turns from you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

'bush, you are a legend in your own mind 

Rossi,

Bush may talk a big talk, but give him credit where credit is due; he has posted his skiing numerous times for all to see, along with other skiing he considers exemplary.

 

Just think how frustrating it must be for him; he can only imagine how poorly we ski, no matter how sure he is that we ski like crap, while we can see exactly how poorly he skis and where he sets the bar.

Epic, my friends and I share insights into each other's skiing, in an informal positive way. you are correct, lessons are not necessary.

 

just for the record, I think the S7 is an awesome ski, and covers quite a range. I'm not anti rocker or anti instructor. I'm anti pushing one's ideology on me.  I'm anti learning to ski a new way with a short learning period and skipping the basics of edge control, angulation, stance etc.

 

Don't embarrass yourself posting up carving pictures on 15 degree (max) slopes. It is meaningless. And don't challenge me, we're not able to ski together which is where competition can be fun, not here.

The only valid affirmation of one's skiing is a statement of skill from someone else, and the greater that skier's experience and knowledge, the more meaningful the comment. I'm not about to post up a lot of pictures and video, or talk about my ability, it's not how I roll. as always, really, peace man.

 

Ghost, thanks for the moment of levity, sometimes the less said (about oneself) the better.

 

jobsoccar,

 

Well now that everybody has run off on their usual tangents, I'll try to help you.

 

Matthias had it almost 100% right at the beginning, but doesn't have the local knowledge of where you may be teaching.  (Are they still charging $179 for the uniform jacket ?)  You are going to be teaching mostly (if not exclusively) low level adults and children on some very flat terrain.  The school at Perfect North has several PSIA Examiners on staff and many certified instructors so you will probably never see a class above wedge christie (and even that is a stretch) .  If you have never taught before (anywhere) you will be mostly in clinics (one day a week there all season for first time instructors) and teaching 1st timers as that is how they operate there with their staff.

 

The hill is a 500 bump in the topography and is almost exclusively man made snow.  You'll be required to teach at least one night a week.  The conditions will range from really nice machine made groomed to solid ice and bottomless slush.  It there is a powder day (maybe once or twice yearly.......6 " maybe)  it would be some pretty wet heavy stuff and would hold up at night and turn to soggy potatoes during the day, but they usually groom it before it gets to that point.

 

To teach there, you need to be on a forgiving ski, relatively short (165 range would do it) so you can "run around on them and pick up beginners", and make slow controlled demo's easily. A slightly turned up tail would help, but I wouldn't go full twin tip.  You don't need it...........there is nothing soft enough to sink into while backing up.  You can take free runs (if you have time) on the gear you already have.  I wouldn't go over 85 underfoot if you are going to be mostly hanging at Perfect North.

 

If you end up going east you may need to upgrade your gear for your own personal skiing pleasure as by then your existing skis may need to be replaced.  Judgment call there.

If you head west there is no question you will need to consider some of the gear (and ideas) that others have posted about in this thread.  A good soft snow ski  and / or wider for skiing on your days off. 

 

yep, mister when he comes to stowe, he doenst ski with me.

skiing on rockered skis doesnt affect you edge control, angulation, or stance, explain to me how it does? the is no learning to ski a "new way". why dont you mister non instructor explain to me what this new way of skiing is your talking about?  Read my other post about how lame it is to smear turns just because your on a rockered skis.

 

why dont you explain to me what edge control is?

 

how about stance? what should it be? do we just stand there? do we keep moving?

 

angulation? when and where should we use it? what part of the turn? how does it happen?

 

you or ghost would lose every ounce of creditability the minute one of you guys posted videos of you skiing, or someone skied with you. the biggest difference between me and you 2 is this. The more people I ski with off the site the more credible I am, the more people you guys ski with the less credible you are .

 

the only thing I am 'pushing" here is that no skis can buy someone a turn and if you cant show demos on a pair of rockered skis you cant ski.

 

 

Something versatile. I'm on Progressor 8's.

and quite the contrary, I've never heard anyone say that you could ski, except you of course.which really stings the credibility factor, now that you mention it.

 

and I'm just saying, why teach on skis that are not the most appropriate for the situation, which is the subject of the thread: best type of skis for instructor (adjusted, probably for conditions and level).

 

you keep indirectly bringing up my favorite idea: the video challenge, something I have supported for years. both post up. the forum votes. some wager is passed back and forth. all in fun. For just a taste,

 

how about a picture? Got bergschram? got 50 degrees? I really like the two puffs of snow, one from the last turn and one this turn, in the air at the same moment.  that is very cool and is the fun part of the shot.  so, what ya' got?

 

a low end turn: a turn that you buy, but don't pay very much

Good grief, guys--how can a simple question like "what is a good instructor's ski?" turn into a boasting match about your own personal skiing?

Sure, a very skilled skier (which does not, unfortunately, describe a lot of instructors in the first place) can ski pretty much any condition on pretty much any ski. But that makes no difference as far as the original question, does it?

The answer to the question is simple. The optimal ski for teaching is the exact same ski, in the same condition, as your student is on. That guarantees the most relevance and the most accessibility of your demos to the student's needs and capabilities. It's the same reason you don't demonstrate your best, highest-speed ripping carved turns to show a beginner how to make a basic, low-speed turn. Effective demos need to be something the skier could reasonably aspire to, and should look pretty much like what their turns will look like when they get it "right."

That said, "optimal" isn't always possible, or practical. As an instructor, you can't always know where your next lesson is going to take you, or what level skiers you will be working with. Even when you do know--which, as Uncle Louie has described well, you probably will as a new instructor--you cannot know exactly what skis your students will show up on. So a good practical instructor ski is a good, middle-of-the-road ski that is not going to be too far from what you expect your students to be on. I cringe when I see an instructor "teaching" a group of beginners while riding on a pair of monstrously wide, long, reverse camber planks. Skis like that bear very little resemblance to what your students will be on, and your demos--no matter how skillful you may be--will hardly look like their performance. It is very unprofessional.

On the other hand, I often go to lineup with a pair of full race-stock slalom skis. Ironically, at 165cm and with deep sidecut, they are not that different in size or shape from a typical beginner's rental ski. But I can also take a high-level skier into the race course, or work with intermediate skiers on anything. If I have to take them into bumps, crud, or powder, it's my problem, not my students' problem, and I can handle them there just fine. Yes, if I know that I'm going to ski with a particular level student, or in a particular type of terrain, or if I know in advance what skis my students will be on, I'll try to match their skis as closely as I can.

But that still doesn't really answer the original question here, does it? I have an extensive selection of skis to choose from, so I can pick with specific purpose. When I'm teaching, I still choose with my students' needs in mind, as much as possible. That is not the situation the original poster has described, however.

Jobsoccer, to answer your question, I would recommend that you own two pairs of skis. One should be basic beginners' learning skis, similar to what most of your students will likely be on. They are not expensive, and you may well be able to buy a used pair from the rental shop. These are your "work skis," and they're ideally suited for what you'll be doing most of the time. They'll get used a lot, and they'll get skied over, walked on, banged up, nicked, chipped and generally abused. The other pair should be a good, all-around, versatile ski that you enjoy skiing on yourself, that you will keep well-tuned and ski for pleasure, but that you probably won't teach on until you teach something other than beginner lessons. That ski will depend on where you ski, and where your personal preferences lie. If you spend a lot of time in the park, you may want a twin-tip. If you lean toward carving turns or racing, it should be a narrower, curvier, high-performance ski. If you ski a lot of powder and off-piste, you'll probably prefer something a little wider and softer. The further you go to any extreme, of course, the more specialized and limited the ski becomes. But this is a ski for you, not your students, and if you can only pick one, pick the one you want. Enjoy its strengths and live with its limitations until you can supplement it with another pair.

Once you've taught for a while, you'll be able to make your own informed decisions about equipment much better. Enjoy!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes

 

Uncle Louie,

 

Thanks for adding some common sense to a very basic question.  This thread proves that common sense is not so common.