Supershape Speed or AC30?

#1

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11/1/09 at 8:47am

sanigene
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Hello,

I'm looking at Head Supershape Speed or Vockl AC30's - both are 2009 models - and need some opinions. I am 5'8" and 140 lbs, athletic, probably a level 7/8 and ski on the east coast. Good performance on hard man made and ice is essential. I'm looking at a 170. Thoughts?

sani

#2

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11/1/09 at 10:05am

MojoMan
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Totally different skis. Supershape speed is a step below a GS and won't give you any versatility. AC30 is an 80mm all-mountain ski for all types of conditions. Either ski in a 170 is probably too long for you given your weight, unless you ski very aggressively and very fast.

Since you say you ski mostly and hardpack and ice, I would go for the speed, but somethig tells me you should look at something else. Try the Dynastar contact 10. You can probably find good deals on this ski from prior seasons. Good grip on ice and more versatile than the Speed. Contact 10 in 165 length would be a very good match for you.

#3

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11/1/09 at 11:29am

MikeC
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I'd agree that the SS Speed may be too much ski. I'd also consider the Fischer Progressor 8+ in 165. I have the 170 and love them, but I'm 6' and 185. Also considered the Contact 10 when I got the Fischer. It's supposed to be a great ski as well.

Mike

#4

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11/1/09 at 2:32pm

sanigene
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoMan

Totally different skis. Supershape speed is a step below a GS and won't give you any versatility. AC30 is an 80mm all-mountain ski for all types of conditions. Either ski in a 170 is probably too long for you given your weight, unless you ski very aggressively and very fast.

Since you say you ski mostly and hardpack and ice, I would go for the speed, but somethig tells me you should look at something else. Try the Dynastar contact 10. You can probably find good deals on this ski from prior seasons. Good grip on ice and more versatile than the Speed. Contact 10 in 165 length would be a very good match for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeC

I'd agree that the SS Speed may be too much ski. I'd also consider the Fischer Progressor 8+ in 165. I have the 170 and love them, but I'm 6' and 185. Also considered the Contact 10 when I got the Fischer. It's supposed to be a great ski as well.

Mike

Thank you both for the info...those were the skis the salesman tried to sell me, he said both were all mountain....so I'm a little surprised to find out the SS is more of a on-piste semi race ski. Anyway, I will look into the Contact and Progressor 8.

About size...I agree that 170 may be a little long but I feel that 163 will be a little short. I tend to ski fast...but I don't think I would call it very fast...

sani

#5

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11/1/09 at 2:45pm

MojoMan
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Salesmen.

Danger Danger !!

Don't ever take any advice from a sporting goods salesmen when buying skis. Do research ahead of time and know what you are looking for when it comes to buying skis. You can really get some very very bad advice, as was the case here.

#6

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11/1/09 at 3:55pm

Philpug
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoMan

Totally different skis. Supershape speed is a step below a GS and won't give you any versatility. AC30 is an 80mm all-mountain ski for all types of conditions. Either ski in a 170 is probably too long for you given your weight, unless you ski very aggressively and very fast.

Since you say you ski mostly and hardpack and ice, I would go for the speed, but somethig tells me you should look at something else. Try the Dynastar contact 10. You can probably find good deals on this ski from prior seasons. Good grip on ice and more versatile than the Speed. Contact 10 in 165 length would be a very good match for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoMan

Salesmen.

Danger Danger !!

Don't ever take any advice from a sporting goods salesmen when buying skis. Do research ahead of time and know what you are looking for when it comes to buying skis. You can really get some very very bad advice, as was the case here.

Like you giving the wrong information? 09 AC30 is 76mm not 80mm like the '10 model.

Click. Point. Chute.

#7

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11/1/09 at 4:08pm

MojoMan
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Yes, beware of me too.

I still wouldn't take any advice from a ski salesmen in a sporting goods store. Then again, I wouldn't buy anything in a sporting goods store anyways. You can get it much cheaper online.

There are lots of deals on the Contact 10 and Progressor 8 that can be found online--these are much more inline with the guy's level and desires.

#8

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11/1/09 at 4:40pm

Philpug
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Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoMan

Yes, beware of me too.

I still wouldn't take any advice from a ski salesmen in a sporting goods store. Then again, I wouldn't buy anything in a sporting goods store anyways. You can get it much cheaper online.

There are lots of deals on the Contact 10 and Progressor 8 that can be found online--these are much more inline with the guy's level and desires.

Distribution in Canada (and other countries) is different than in the US, thats is why he is seeing "better" Volkls & Heads there. And there are indeed qualified salespeople in some of these shops. To make blanket statements none are to be trusted is like saying everything you read on the internet is accurate. We found how that works

. Who knows...maybe is is shopping at one of those stores that has a great internet business and their prices and knowledge is very good.

Click. Point. Chute.

#9

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11/1/09 at 4:55pm

mmpotash
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I have the AC30's in 170cm. I'm 5'-9" 155 lbs and an advanced skier, mostly off piste. These skis are great for hardpack and bumps, but if I were you I would go with the shorter size. They require good technique and precise edging, but reward you with a solid feel with speed. In crud they aren't as much fun and in powder OK but not the best. I rented some Armada ARV's in Park City one day with about 12"-16" crud and really had fun with them, but on the groomers they were stable but slow. For hard pack I would take the AC30's. So for me they are perfect for a 2 ski quiver.

#10

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11/1/09 at 5:04pm

MojoMan
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If you know what you already want, the internet is a good place to find deals. If you don't know what you want, it's best to research any advice you receive before before jumping the gun in a shop or on the net. Buying the wrong ski can be a very costly mistake. Trust your own research ahead of opinions and advice. Use opinions and advice as a preliminary guide to what to look at. If at all possible, demo the ski before you buy, regardless of the reviews or opinions you read. You won't know how they handle for you until they are under your feet.

#11

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11/2/09 at 5:59am

sanigene
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mmpotash

I have the AC30's in 170cm. I'm 5'-9" 155 lbs and an advanced skier, mostly off piste. These skis are great for hardpack and bumps, but if I were you I would go with the shorter size. They require good technique and precise edging, but reward you with a solid feel with speed. In crud they aren't as much fun and in powder OK but not the best. I rented some Armada ARV's in Park City one day with about 12"-16" crud and really had fun with them, but on the groomers they were stable but slow. For hard pack I would take the AC30's. So for me they are perfect for a 2 ski quiver.

Thanks for the info! Do you have a problem turning the 170 or would you go shorter based on the type of skiing you do? Little chance of me skiing any pow, so that is not a consideration for me. On piste carving, a little glades (snow permitting)and bump skiing is my m.o. Speed is a necessity.

Oh yeah, I'm looking for a one ski quiv!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoMan

If you know what you already want, the internet is a good place to find deals. If you don't know what you want, it's best to research any advice you receive before before jumping the gun in a shop or on the net. Buying the wrong ski can be a very costly mistake. Trust your own research ahead of opinions and advice. Use opinions and advice as a preliminary guide to what to look at. If at all possible, demo the ski before you buy, regardless of the reviews or opinions you read. You won't know how they handle for you until they are under your feet.

Thanks MM. No hard feelings here, I am taking all the advice and info I can get from all sources becuase I have been out of skiing for a few years and the technologies have changed significantly. I will filter out the BS as required :-)

sani

#12

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11/2/09 at 4:53pm

coolhand
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Note to MojoMan. Be careful making blanket statements about anything. Your statement about trusting salesmen in the sporting goods store is really off base and plain wrong.

I have been a retailer for a long time. I work very hard to test skis every year at the trade fair. We test several brands both men's and women's, from hard snow skis through fatties. We have a very consistent test strategy. We have a damn good idea about how the models we sell ski. We also ski as many brands as we can, so that we can get true "apples to apples" comparisons. Many posters here only ski a few models, before they give their "expert" opinions. I tune hundreds of skis everyyear and custom fit just as many boots. I find, that the internet for the most part, is the source of more mis-information about skis and equipment than any other single thing.

Any retailer worth his salt will work with the customer if the skis or boots that were purchased don't work out. I guarentee all of my sales. That's just the way it is. If I didn't, I wouldn't be in business. Most long tenured ski shops are still is business because they do it that way.

The ski business is not a terribly profitable business, most specialty retailers I know do it because they love skiing, not because they are getting rich. Your attitude toward ski retailers, is disappointing and unfair.

#13

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11/2/09 at 7:07pm

Snowfan
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coolhand, Instead of defending yourself, and stating your disappointment in MojoMan for his unfairness...Wake up and smell the coffee. There are many, many worthless retailers with worthless employees masquerading as 'experts'.

We DEEPLY appreciate any retailer with a brick and mortar store who truly educates him or herself and staff about equipment, trends and techniques throughout the ski industry, as with any good gig, it takes commitment. Well done sir.

It would better serve you not to ignore the meat of this thread. Care to know how many skiers have been sold OVERSIZE ski boots by crummy retailers? Thought so.

The point is not that you have been a crummy retailer, far from it. It's that you ignore the truth that MojoMans words represent. Doesn't matter if he overstated it or not, in your opinion, mine or anyone elses. What he wrote needs to be recognized, identified and dealt with by the entire ski equipment industry, or they will continue to see skier numbers fall.

5 of the 6 ski shops I have dealings with in Amarillo and Taos stink. Staffed by total idiots who care nothing about what this customer seeks.

"For me skiing has always been about what I feel as opposed to what I think..." Hilary Lindh

"A setback is just a setup for a comeback" Errol Kerr

#14

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11/2/09 at 7:15pm

Snowfan
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sanigene, sorry about the hijack.

170 is not a little long for you, in most skis anyway. I encourage you to demo before you buy, that way you will end up with exactly what you want, rather than hoping something works that you have never skied before. Several of the skis mentioned sound good for you, to me anyway.

"For me skiing has always been about what I feel as opposed to what I think..." Hilary Lindh

"A setback is just a setup for a comeback" Errol Kerr

#15

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11/2/09 at 7:19pm

Ghost
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The supershape name is such a good seller that Head decided to name several skis by the same name.
The SuperShape, the SuperShape Speed, and the SuperShape Magnum are three different skis.

I think it would be worth your 20 bucks to sign up for the reviews at expertskier.com .

You will have to compromise between an uber-stiff ski that's very good at high speeds and a ski that's a bit easier to bend in the moguls. The trouble with the bendy skis is they don't have the ice grip your asking for.

If you really like to ski fast, you probably shouldn't get a ski with a small turn radius, (the longer the better when it comes to high speeds imho)

#16

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11/2/09 at 7:23pm

Philpug
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Location: NTS, PA
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowfan

sanigene, sorry about the hijack.

170 is not a little long for you, in most skis anyway. I encourage you to demo before you buy, that way you will end up with exactly what you want, rather than hoping something works that you have never skied before. Several of the skis mentioned sound good for you, to me anyway.

It will be nearly impossible for him to demo last years model. One of the "costs" for getting a lower price is you are limited in your ability to demo it.

Click. Point. Chute.

#17

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11/2/09 at 7:36pm

MojoMan
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Post Count: 522

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolhand

Note to MojoMan. Be careful making blanket statements about anything. Your statement about trusting salesmen in the sporting goods store is really off base and plain wrong.

I have been a retailer for a long time. I work very hard to test skis every year at the trade fair. We test several brands both men's and women's, from hard snow skis through fatties. We have a very consistent test strategy. We have a damn good idea about how the models we sell ski. We also ski as many brands as we can, so that we can get true "apples to apples" comparisons. Many posters here only ski a few models, before they give their "expert" opinions. I tune hundreds of skis everyyear and custom fit just as many boots. I find, that the internet for the most part, is the source of more mis-information about skis and equipment than any other single thing.

Any retailer worth his salt will work with the customer if the skis or boots that were purchased don't work out. I guarentee all of my sales. That's just the way it is. If I didn't, I wouldn't be in business. Most long tenured ski shops are still is business because they do it that way.

The ski business is not a terribly profitable business, most specialty retailers I know do it because they love skiing, not because they are getting rich. Your attitude toward ski retailers, is disappointing and unfair.

No offense but I stick by my opinion. Just going by my personal experience. There are a good number of very good brick and mortar stores with experienced staff -- many seem to show up here at this site. Unfortunately, it is my experience that this is the exception, rather than the rule. If you really want to make sure you are getting what you need and want, you need to either find and visit one of the good shops or do your own research and know what you want before visiting an unknown retailer. Unfortunately, the average skier does not know a good shop from a bad shop.

The OP is just an example. Apparently, he asked for an all-mountain ski and someone advised him that a semi-GS ski was something to seriously consider. This is not unusual and you are likely to find this type of scenario quite frequently if you were to randomly pick a ski shop and hang around for a while. Many shops are just pushing gear. I have seen a shop in the Midwest try to push off a K2 Pontoon on a guy who was standing there checking it out. He stated it was a great ski for " ripping the hardpack around here real fast, and it will handle freshies out West, too." You here a lot of insane stuff in ski shops.

#18

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11/2/09 at 8:42pm

Richie-Rich
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Location: Strong Island, NY
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I can say the the SS speed feels like an all out race ski that sits smack in the middle of a GS and a SL ski (a little more damp than my RD skis, but I think its due to the binding interface which incorporates some soft rubber). Having all three I can ride them all on the same day. That being said the SSS is a fun ski if you ski fast and hard on or off a race course.

#19

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11/3/09 at 8:03am

coolhand
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Sanigene, sorry for the hijack.

To offer my two cents to your questions. Some osther good choices to consider for the type of ski you seek are: Volkl AC30, Maybe even a Volkl Tigershark 10, Head Peak 78 (or last year's Monster 78 - essentially same ski), Head Supershape Magnum, Fischer Progressor 8+ or even Progressor 9+, Last season's Fischer Cool Heat is also a good bet, Nordica's Superspeed series, and Rossignol's Classic CX70 or CX80. There are probably some good deals out there on some of these.

Length issues, a 165cm would be great if you like shorter radius, slalom type turns, and a 170cm for something with more of a variety of turn shapes.

MojoMan, I agree that some retailers, especially some of the big box guys, can be pretty pathetic. All I was saying, is be careful about blanket statements. There are several retailers,
many are regulars on epicski, are knowledgable and legitimate.

#20

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11/4/09 at 9:14am

sanigene
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Post Count: 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolhand

Sanigene, sorry for the hijack.

To offer my two cents to your questions. Some osther good choices to consider for the type of ski you seek are: Volkl AC30, Maybe even a Volkl Tigershark 10, Head Peak 78 (or last year's Monster 78 - essentially same ski), Head Supershape Magnum, Fischer Progressor 8+ or even Progressor 9+, Last season's Fischer Cool Heat is also a good bet, Nordica's Superspeed series, and Rossignol's Classic CX70 or CX80. There are probably some good deals out there on some of these.

Length issues, a 165cm would be great if you like shorter radius, slalom type turns, and a 170cm for something with more of a variety of turn shapes.

I'm strongly considering the Dynastar Contact 10 (2008) in a 165 length. Good deals online and the reviews are great in terms of what I like to do. Carve, piste, ice & hard pack. The next size up I think is a 173 and I'm a little worried it would be clumsy for me at 5'8" and 140 (wet).

Progressor 8 is also tempting, I have a long history with Fischer skis...but the price point is a little higher and I'm on a budget having just moved my family 1900 miles...

sani

PS - no worries on the highjack but I was a little surprised that my thread turned into a flame bait.....that was not my intention! all the info here was good stuff, broad generalization or not.

#21

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11/4/09 at 9:27am

MojoMan
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I have the Contact 10 in 172. I am 6'2" 190 lbs. For me, it has been a very nice inbounds ski -- easy to ski, no-suprise type ski that I can cruise on and step it up without it folding at higher speeds. It handles mid-day chop and crud quite well. I typically use it the second half of the day when I am tired and just want to relax and cruise. My experience has been that it has great edge grip on Eastern ice -- almost equal to my Fischer RX8 in terms of edgegrip.

165 sounds like it would be an appropriate length for your stats.

#22

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11/4/09 at 12:25pm

sanigene
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Post Count: 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MojoMan

I have the Contact 10 in 172. I am 6'2" 190 lbs. For me, it has been a very nice inbounds ski -- easy to ski, no-suprise type ski that I can cruise on and step it up without it folding at higher speeds. It handles mid-day chop and crud quite well. I typically use it the second half of the day when I am tired and just want to relax and cruise. My experience has been that it has great edge grip on Eastern ice -- almost equal to my Fischer RX8 in terms of edgegrip.

165 sounds like it would be an appropriate length for your stats.

It was actually your original post that turned me on to the Contact 10. I did quite a bit of research [as you suggested in a later post ;-)] and have a comfortable feeling that its the right ski. Of course, if the ski ends up being dog poo I'll blame you.

sani

#23

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11/4/09 at 3:33pm

MojoMan
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Too bad you can't try the skis first but these are decent skis that have been around for a while that seem to get mostly positive comments from users. I don't think it would be a ski that will give you any surprises -- it's got some high-end but won't beat you up and you don't always have to be on top of it. I found it to have a very large sweet spot. For me, it has been a fun ski for inbounds stuff and definately would be a ski someone can grow with. It's also a ski that's easy to find good deals on.

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