junior / kids skis

#1

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10/25/09 at 11:33am

Rocor
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Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Post Count: 7

Hi All,

I have a couple of questions regarding skis for my kids, two boys, 8 and 10. They are both very skillful freeride skiers and will ski pretty much anything the hills have to offer. Up until now, we have had them on a variety of Head Mojo's which have worked well. Problem we're having is trying to find new gear for the 10 yr old. I'd like to move him to true junior performance equipment but having some trouble due to his size-weight and ski stores not really listening/understanding his ability. He is ~ 4'-6", 63lbs with a 22.5 boot size. Last year his was on 117. I'm reluctant to move him to 125's with a big boost in ski performance. I think he'd be more comfortable on 120's plus the 8 year old can use them next year - they are close in height.

So, we are looking for ski - bindings reccomendations for a freerider of above description. k2 bad seeds? dynastar mythic's?

Any thought?

#2

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10/25/09 at 10:21pm

chanwmr
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Location: Central Upstate New York
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Where do you guys ski? How fat of a freeski are you looking for?

#3

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10/26/09 at 12:08pm

Rocor
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Joined: October 2009
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Post Count: 7

western canada / us. usually soft, sometimes deep. for the most part he skis with me, off piste. he is quite techincal, not one to just bomb it. he likes drops, jumps, playing in terrain parks and is a pretty good bump skier.

I'm not sure on width,?

Yesterday, I picked up a used pair of K2 fugatives with Marker M2? 119 cm, they were a petty good deal and I can return for full in store credit if they are not liked. they are quite wide, about 80 under foot, but I'm a little concerned about how stiff they are.

#4

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10/26/09 at 12:21pm

quant2325
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I have the same problem with my 8-year old who is already on double diamonds. The Bad Seed is a good choice, and the softer 50/50 Indy (or whatever they call it this year) is OK too.

The bigger issue is boots. He needs a decent boot, not too soft and not a man's stiffmess either.

#5

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10/26/09 at 2:02pm

TheDad
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Joined: May 2009
Location: Bay Area & Tahoe
Post Count: 348

I have twins who were nine last year. The taller one (~4'6" and 70 pounds last season) skied 139 Bad Seeds, and the shorter one (~4'3" and 62 pounds) skied the 129 Fujative Jr. Incidentally, I believe they are the same ski -- the Fujative Jr was the 2006-07 model, rebranded the Bad Seed for 2007-08 -- based on identical dimensions and hand flexing.

#6

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10/26/09 at 6:14pm

Rocor
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Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Post Count: 7

wow, 139's for a 4.5 footer, did he have any trouble with them?......I might be over thinking this.....he probably just said "kwel", strapped them on and proceeded to tear it up.

I believe you are correct, the guy at the store told me the same, the Fuja became the Bad Seed, that and with the return option I figured I couldn't lose for $125

quant2325: I know what your saying about the boots. last year I think I worked out that until 23+ size, there just isn't much performance out there.

I may still consider another pair as the 8 yr old could probably handle the fuja's as well.

Thanks for the input guys

#7

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10/26/09 at 6:29pm

TheDad
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Location: Bay Area & Tahoe
Post Count: 348

He had no problem. Remember that, although these are K2 and therefore measure actual linear length rather than following the base of the ski, these are still twin tips.

There are actually some pretty decent junior boots these days. My kids have mainly ridden Nordica GP TJs and Lange Comp Teams for the past couple of years. A flex in the 40-60 range usually works well. Some options:
http://www.rei.com/product/790725
http://www.rei.com/product/790702
http://www.rei.com/product/758671
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Tecnica-Agent-65-Jr-Ski-Boot-Kids/TEC0015M.html
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/TEC0030/Tecnica-Agent-65-Jr-Ski-Boot-Kids.html
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Lange-Comp-50-Team-Boot-Kids/DYN0214M.html
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Lange-Comp-60-Team-Boot-Kids/DYN0249M.html

#8

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10/26/09 at 9:15pm

Rocor
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Joined: October 2009
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Post Count: 7

Good info on the boots. I think I need to find a ski store that takes kids performance skiing more seriously. Seems most around here are too quick with the "he'll be fine with that" response or they are flat out race oriented. thanks

#9

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10/26/09 at 10:01pm

chanwmr
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Location: Central Upstate New York
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocor

Good info on the boots.

Just to add, like the Lange Comp, any of the jr race boot might work. Technica, Rossi and Head (amongst others) all have similar products. Also, there are mid-end freestyle boots to be found. Nordica used to make a Beast Jr. I don't know if that is still in product. But, there are others as well.

When it comes down to it, I don't think it's stiffness you are looking for but rather snugness for fit. Believe me, no matter how skillful your 8 and 10yo are, you don't want stiff boots for them. So, "race" or nice quality freestyle boots with 3 to 4 buckles will work well.

BTW, I also picked up a pair of Fujative for my 10 yo daughter. I hope they will work well for her. The mid-fat will give her enough float in the few powder days that we have. I have heard that they are quite able on eastern groomers too.

#10

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10/29/09 at 7:23pm

quant2325
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Post Count: 46

Last year my 8-year old skied the Atomic IJ4, which had the perfect stiffness for him. I'm looking for someone with the newer Atomic version of this boot. The Lange is a great choice as a jr. race boot. The new "park" boots for kids seem really soft.

#11

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10/29/09 at 8:16pm

hobieboy
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Joined: March 2007
Post Count: 98

I also just got new boots/skis for my 9 1/2 years old daughter who will be starting with the I2 program this year.

She's 4'-4" and 62lbs. The local shop said same thing as what Chanwmr suggested - they don't need very stiff boots and should make sure they are snug instead. We ended up with Lange Team 7 which has a 50 flex (she can easily flex them fully in the store) to "balance" with the longer/stiffer skis that I came across & got for her (Elan RCX).

#12

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10/31/09 at 6:37am

quant2325
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A "50" flex is soft but the boots are laterally stiffer than the average kid boot. That is probably what she needs. My kid needs a slightly stiffer boot because he has strong legs from martial arts. Little kids on shaped skis who are "advanced" don't have to pressure the tips that hard to arc a turn...but they do need lateral stiffness to ski well. Little kids don't want a stiff forward flex for junior racing because the boots will be hard to ski in powder and bumps. Kids want to have fun.

#13

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10/31/09 at 6:37am

quant2325
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A "50" flex is soft but the boots are laterally stiffer than the average kid boot. That is probably what she needs. My kid needs a slightly stiffer boot because he has strong legs from martial arts. Little kids on shaped skis who are "advanced" don't have to pressure the tips that hard to arc a turn...but they do need lateral stiffness to ski well. Little kids don't want a stiff forward flex for junior racing because the boots will be hard to ski in powder and bumps. Kids want to have fun.

#14

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10/31/09 at 6:59am

Ski the East
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Location: Albany, NY
Post Count: 164

Sierra Jim has previously recommended the lange comp 60/70 series as good 4 buckle kids boots that tend to fit kids narrow feet (not a race boot). I took his recommendation and they have worked for my son (8yo 55lbs, skis double blacks only when conditions are ideal).

Regarding wider TT skis for kids, when i asked on this forum, several people recommened the volkl mantra jr. and the line invader jr. So you can consider those models too.

STE

#15

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10/31/09 at 7:29pm

chanwmr
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Location: Central Upstate New York
Post Count: 1,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski the East

the lange comp 60/70 series as good 4 buckle kids boots that tend to fit kids narrow feet (not a race boot).

FWIW, the Lange Comp 60 are classified as "race" boots even though it can be used for freeskiing. The 70s is even more so and it's definitely a 5-buckle boot with a high cuff not suitable for anyone too young/small.

For a smaller size skier, one has to be careful with the 60 series for anything under 20 mondo (I forgot the exact cut off). They tend to run stiffer than the larger sizes due to the difference in construction. Even though they are all Comp 60, the smaller version has 4 buckles and the larger ones have 5. And, in the small version, the top second buckle bottoms out on the second buckle from the bottom not allowing additional flex if needed. It was definitely true for this particular version, which is a couple generation old now->
http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Lange-Comp-60-Team-Blue-Ski-Boot-Kids-1_W0QQitemZ400081304371QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d26b43b33

If you want a much softer version of the Lange, look into the Rossi JR1 or its successor.
http://www.skis.com/race-ski-boots/c454/rossignol-race-1-junior-race-ski-boots-p82497.html?productid=82497

The Langes and Rossis are the same boots and came out of the same molds. They even have the same liners. The only differences are the logo, the color (yellow vs. blue) and the stiffness of the plastic.

FYI, my 13yo has been skiing and racing on Lange "race" boots since she was 7 (probably the 5th or 6th pair). I also bought her a JR1 but she skied in them only once or twice thinking that they are too soft and prefers the Langes. My younger 10yo however has a smaller and lighter body prefers the softer flex and has been using boots that have a softer fore/aft flex (started with a switch from the Lange Comp 60 to the Rossi CompJ3 based on a reputable boot fitter at Stowe/Smuggs). If that trend continues, she will be using the hardly used JR1 in a year or so.

#16

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10/31/09 at 10:12pm

Ski the East
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Location: Albany, NY
Post Count: 164

Chanwmr, I stand corrected.

I tried to find the original SJ recommendation, but I'm having a hard time locating it (the advanced search feature does not appear to limit itself to posts submitted by the poster you name). However, I do not think the recommendation was in response to a request for a recommendation of a Jr. race boot.

I also checked my son's Comp 60 boots and I can see how the boot's forward flex could be limited by the lower of the two upper buckles bumping into the upper of the two lower buckles. I'm considering replacing them with the Comp 50, which only has one upper buckle. Thanks for letting me know about this.

STE

#17

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10/31/09 at 10:41pm

SierraJim
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Location: Tahoe
Post Count: 3,105

Hooooooboy..........................some basics.

There are two general categories of Jr boots in these sizes.

"Play boots and "Performance boots".

Whether a boot in the second category is a race boot or not is a function of what color it is. Companies that are into racing will make say a 60 flex boot in the race color (Tecnica Diablo Race Jr. f'rinstance) and they will make the same boot in the "freeride" color (Tecnica Agent Jr. f'rinstance) They are the same boot. However, they will be lower volume and somewhat stiffer than the same companies "play" boot (Tecnica RJ Super f'rinstance)

I'm sure that Chanwmr meant that the Lange Jr boots are 3 buckle (not 4) in the 50 flex up to a certain size and then they turn into 4 buckle (not 5). At some point, those boots just morph into a 4 buckle 60 flex boot. None of the Lange/Rossi/Nordica/Tecnica Jr boots are 5 buckle in any size,flex or color.

A 55 lb kid might be OK in a 50 or a 60 flex. No way to know until he/she puts 'em on and flexes them. A strong kid will flex forward until they get resistance from the cuff and will push right through and bend the boot (desirable) a weaker kid might be in the same boot but when they hit the resistance, they stop. This can be mitigated somewhat by grinding the lower buckle strap so that the lower strap does not bottom out on the instep as soon.

SJ

www.starthaus.com (Check out SH ski deals #2 in the special deals forum)

#18

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11/1/09 at 9:14pm

chanwmr
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Post Count: 1,208

OK. I misspoke (it never happened before

).
What I meant when I said 5 buckles was 4+power strap with the Comp 60.

As for Lange Comp 60 vs. Rossi JR1, they were indeed the same boots both categorized as "race" boots with different plastics. I think that still holds true with their latest equivalent models.

#19

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11/2/09 at 12:45pm

Cantley
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Post Count: 13

My 9-year old son is joining the I2 Program this year. He fits a mondo 23 and will be wearing Nordica Dobermann Team 60 boots. He is 142 cm tall and weighs about 74 lbs. He wore the team 40 last year, this seems to be a good progression.

#20

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11/2/09 at 1:15pm

MattL
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Location: Central PA
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My 8 year old is 4'3" and 50ish lbs. He will be on the K2 Juvy 119 cm and Lange Comp 50 this year.

Harrisburg PA Web Design & Internet Marketing

#21

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11/3/09 at 8:55am

quant2325
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The Juvy is a park and pipe ski, isn't it? Can you carve a turn with it?

#22

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11/3/09 at 9:05am

TheDad
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Location: Bay Area & Tahoe
Post Count: 348

Quote:

Originally Posted by quant2325

The Juvy is a park and pipe ski, isn't it? Can you carve a turn with it?

The Juvy was the kids' equivalent of the Public Enemy. It's a great all-mountain twin. One of my sons skied his 119s for two seasons (ages 6 & 7) and went from venturing into black terrain to skiing anything and anywhere, with great form.

#23

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11/3/09 at 9:26am

MattL
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Location: Central PA
Post Count: 1,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by quant2325

The Juvy is a park and pipe ski, isn't it? Can you carve a turn with it?

Same dims as the Indy but wood core instead of foam so it's stiffer.

Harrisburg PA Web Design & Internet Marketing

#24

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11/3/09 at 9:33am

chanwmr
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Location: Central Upstate New York
Post Count: 1,208

Quote:

Originally Posted by quant2325

The Juvy is a park and pipe ski, isn't it? Can you carve a turn with it?

Any ski in this size range for this age can handle all terrains. The terrain "specific-ness" only means it's better for something than for others.

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