Atomic Bindings, those plates, flex, etc...

#1

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10/20/09 at 6:39am

JayPowHound
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I just got a pair of Volkl Ledge's that need to get mounted. Ideally I'd like to put a pair of the schitzo's on them so I can transition from true center to a more reasonable mounting position. (The ski is symmetrical, and a real twin... so I think true center may be fun although I'm not much of a park guy) Since the schitzo's aren't in the budget I was considering using an old pair of Atomic 614's that I have, which are similarly adjustable but I'm wondering if the plates that they mount onto will afffect the flex of the ski in a negative way? Is there any other reason I wouldn't want to use them for a fun, buttery park ski?? Should I just get some p12's for them and decide on one mount point, or will the 614's be good?

#2

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10/20/09 at 6:43am

Philpug
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How about some railflexes? Lighter and easier to work with. Plus you can get extra rails for different skis, so you can move one pair of bindings from ski to ski.

Click. Point. Chute.

#3

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10/20/09 at 1:20pm

JayPowHound
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug

How about some railflexes? Lighter and easier to work with. Plus you can get extra rails for different skis, so you can move one pair of bindings from ski to ski.

Yea... the thing is, the 614's are sitting in my basement, and the railflexes cost $. Do you suggest them because you think there would be an issue with the Atomics? If so, what do you think it would be? I know they're not the most popular binding around, but I've been decently satisfied with them releasing when they should and not when they shouldn't. Just don't think I've ever seen any mounted on any skis other than atomics...

Also can move the 614's from ski to ski if you have multiple sets of plates (which I do)

#4

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10/20/09 at 2:11pm

Squawker
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How much adjustment can you get out of the 614s? With Railflexes you should be able to get 6cm if you understand the band (+/- 1.5cm using the standard Railflex adjustment, the other 1.5cm from playing with the band assuming you have normal sized feet). So if you mount at +3 you can go roughly from standard to center (just like the schizo). Pretty easy to do it on the hill too.

#5

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10/20/09 at 2:30pm

JayPowHound
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Squawker

How much adjustment can you get out of the 614s? With Railflexes you should be able to get 6cm if you understand the band (+/- 1.5cm using the standard Railflex adjustment, the other 1.5cm from playing with the band assuming you have normal sized feet). So if you mount at +3 you can go roughly from standard to center (just like the schizo). Pretty easy to do it on the hill too.

6 is definitely way more than the Atomics will go.. I'd say maybe 2.5cm? The main point tho, is that I already have them... so they're free! Is there a good reason I shouldn't use them?

#6

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10/20/09 at 2:38pm

TheDad
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I've never used them.

But by reputation, they're heavy as hell, and not terribly durable. Probably not an ideal park binding.

#7

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10/20/09 at 2:55pm

comprex
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Quote:

Originally Posted by JayPowHound

6 is definitely way more than the Atomics will go.. I'd say maybe 2.5cm? The main point tho, is that I already have them... so they're free! Is there a good reason I shouldn't use them?

I take it these are Race or Xentrix, not Neox?

Strictly speaking, you don't need the carve plates; the strap cover plate doesn't affect much of anything.

EDIT: if the brakes fit then I suspect you have Xentrix not Race or SX. I don't like those so much.

Now on Mondays.

#8

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10/20/09 at 4:56pm

JayPowHound
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Quote:

Originally Posted by comprex

I take it these are Race or Xentrix, not Neox?

Strictly speaking, you don't need the carve plates; the strap cover plate doesn't affect much of anything.

EDIT: if the brakes fit then I suspect you have Xentrix not Race or SX. I don't like those so much.

They are Green RACE 614's. Matter of fact, they are these:

Maybe we were thinking about different things when we said plates? I'm pretty sure this heel and toe can't be mounted without the 'plates' under them... not sure if they are the same "carving plates" of which you speak?

#9

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10/20/09 at 7:09pm

comprex
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Quote:

Originally Posted by JayPowHound

They are Green RACE 614's. Matter of fact, they are these:

Maybe we were thinking about different things when we said plates?

We were. I call those two pieces the brake unit and the strap cover plate.

. not sure if they are the same "carving plates" of which you speak?

They are not; the carving plates were 3-piece plates, "RaceCharger" and "CarveCharger", which also came built into a bunch of skis.

Now on Mondays.

#10

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10/20/09 at 8:06pm

ScotsSkier
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Quote:

Originally Posted by comprex

I take it these are Race or Xentrix, not Neox?

Strictly speaking, you don't need the carve plates; the strap cover plate doesn't affect much of anything.

EDIT: if the brakes fit then I suspect you have Xentrix not Race or SX. I don't like those so much.

JPH, should be no issues using them. If you mount so the forward position takes you to the Park line you have about 28mm adjustment backwards and another 3 positions in between to play with. The difference between the Race and the CR/Xentrix is that the mounting plates/rails for the Xentrix/CR are slightly higher . Something like ~9mm v 15mm IIRC. i have used both and never really noticed the difference but they have been on top of race plates anyway. The advantage of the Xentrix type is that you can get wider brakes, there is one ~85mm and one ~ 110 mm. the standard race ones don't bend well. You may be able to switch out just the brakes but normally you just use the full brake/mounting plate

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDad

I've never used them.

But by reputation, they're heavy as hell, and not terribly durable. Probably not an ideal park binding.

they are certainly on the heavy side but actually more durable than they look provided you have the 614s (or of course the 1018s which have much more metal). I haven't managed to break them apart from the dud heels on the 412s.

JPH the other potential approach if you want even more flexibility of positioning without redrilling is to find a set of teh "charger" plates from an old set of 10/20 skis or similar. This gives a softer plate than the race chassis but also provides multiple choices of mounts which could give you options over about a 3 inch range if you don't mind the extra lift of the plate. If you need the wider brakes let me know, i have both widths and could trade you for your current ones

#11

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10/20/09 at 11:18pm

volantaddict
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I have never had any problem with my CR 614s, and I have used them primarily to ski refrozen moguls with chicken heads. No skiing out of them (at a modest DIN setting of 8), no malfunction, and no material failure.

The brake arms are very resistant to bending, so if they are too skinny, good luck making them wider.

Edited by volantaddict - 10/21/09 at 12:58am

The heaviness of the complexity fuels the force behind the dart that hits the mark.

#12

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10/21/09 at 8:17am

SHREDHEAD
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ScotsSkier

they are certainly on the heavy side but actually more durable than they look provided you have the 614s (or of course the 1018s which have much more metal). I haven't managed to break them apart from the dud heels on the 412s.

The problem with that binding is the forward pressure worm screw is very susceptible to stripping. Once it's stripped, they release very easily. Don't ever set your forward pressure with the boot in! Personally, I wouldn't use them.

#13

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10/31/09 at 10:57pm

volantaddict
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Quote:

Originally Posted by SHREDHEAD

The problem with that binding is the forward pressure worm screw is very susceptible to stripping. Once it's stripped, they release very easily. Don't ever set your forward pressure with the boot in! Personally, I wouldn't use them.

As far as I understand it, attempting to increase forward pressure with the boot in is the only thing that will cause the stripping you refer to, and if you don't do it wrong (contrary to the directions, this damage won't occur.

Just a picky point of clarification, it isn't the worm screw that gets stripped, it is the aluminum track that the steel worm screw engages that gets stripped, because the screw chews into the much softer aluminum when one tries to increase forward pressure against the resistance of the boot.

The heaviness of the complexity fuels the force behind the dart that hits the mark.

#14

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11/1/09 at 6:21am

RicB
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That particular binding, while being on the heavy side, is a good durable binding that will allow the ski to totally free flex through it's entire range. The free flex system on this binding is as good as any on the market, and better than most. I have that exact same binding mounted on my SL 11's. To my knowledge Atomic still warranties them.

Unless you are doing hop turns in place or carrying them for great distances (hike a lot) I doubt that you will notice the weight difference much, if at all. I notice the swing weight of skis way more than I ever notice the total dead weight of a ski/binding combo. But that is just me, YMMV.

One issue is that if they don't work out like you wanted, you will have an extra set of holes in your skis when you drill for a new pair.

If saving the cost of a new pair of bindings will help out your ski season this year then the 614's range of adjustment might be a good compromise for you. Double check your measurements before making any decision, and good luck.

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