Line Prophet 100, Nordica Hellcat, Elan Magfire 82 Ti.

I'm thinking of buying my first pair of skis, which I can grow into for the next 5 years~

Some people has organized a few skis reviews under the Tenton->> Tech Talk. I read some reviews on the Line Prophet 100, but I'm hoping to get some recommendation for the following skis:

- Line Prophet 100 (2010) 179cm: somehow the review scores this baby a little lower than K2 or Nordica similar model.

- Nordica Hellcat (2009) 178cm: Why did they terminate the production of this model at 2010? Because of its poor performance? And somehow the review thinks it has better grip on hard snow than powder... mmm....Really?

- Elan Magfire 82 Ti (2009) 176cm: some of the members on this forum spoke highly of them.

- Elan 888 176 (2009): For my skiing purpose, is this a better choice over 82ti??

- Elan 1010 177 (2010): I know Dawgcatching mentioned how much he enjoyed Elan 1010, but I dont think as a beginner, I will be able to handle it, let along distinguish the merits of this fat ski, where most of my first year will stay on the groomed piste...

I expect myself to stay most of first year on the piste; maybe after a year or two, start trying the tree; then into the uncharted territory whenever my skill approves. (60% on piste, 30% in the tree, 10% off to the unknown). So the choice of my skis is to have mixed ability for sking through 2"~14" fresh powder, groomed, hard-packed surface, with control and response.

If the snow dumps like crazy 14" or above, I will just switch back to snowboard. There is no way I will be able to master all those snow conditions in 5 years, so the last thing I will need from my ski is the ability to grip on the icy or race-like piste.

I dont think they quit making the Hellcat just renamed it the Helldiver Ti     

Actually at 2008~2009, there were both Helldiver and Hellcat...

Edited by BrianInfo - 10/18/09 at 2:05am

I think I just figure out the difference. Since 2008 and 2009, the Helldiver and Hellcat has the same Tip/Waist/Tail; however, Helldiver is a metal-free, carbon-reinforced construction while Hellcat uses metal.

In 2010, they just simply merge together with Helldiver CA and Helldiver Ti.

This list is soooo far off base that I don't know for sure where to start. Suffice to say that all the skis mentioned are either wider and/or stiffer than you need for the first year or so as a beginner. You may get to where you need or can even use skis like this in five years, but it's also possible that you won't. Buy something reasonable to learn on then when you are already skiing off trail and skiing black diamond runs aggressively, step up to a higher level ski.

For where you are right now, top of the line skis won't make you better, but they will hold you back from learning properly.

SJ

Hinder me from learning to ski properly, mmm... never thought of that perspective. But I will definitely reconsider my choice then~

At the end of last season, April 2009, I borrowed my friend's Nordica Hellcat 178cm (2008) to Mammoth Mt.... It was amazingly fun and exciting to ski; so different from snowboarding and I immediately fell in love~

My friends lured me to the summit, claiming just wanna take a group pix and would come down from a blue run!! It turned out to be a double black Climax waiting for me:( Soft on the summit, then crud, all the way to the Canyon Lodge, with hard packed and somewhat icy surface.... Naturally when trying to carve, I skid out a lot~ and after 4 or 5 turns, I would need to go into a complete stop, just to slow down and stay in control... nevertheless, I enjoyed it so much.

This is the review from one of the members on other forum, just wanna share with those who might be looking for similar skis.

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K2 Recon. I liked more than the Xplorer. It is a pretty decent resort ski. Soft, light, has a little more pop than the Xplorer.

Hellcat. I LOVE THIS SKI. Seriously. It is wide underfoot for the style of the ski. 90mm underfoot. This ski is beastly. It loves to go straight, make long turns and does better than the others discussed about in the fresh/soft snow. It handles crud (chopped up, mixed styles of snow) really well too.

Just a few explanations (sorry if you already know these things). Soft skis "cave" when you push them. The harder of a turn you make, the more the ski bends, changes the radius of the turn. A softer ski is more forgiving, meaning a little more room for skier error. A stiffer ski, like the Hellcat, comes out of a turn faster and harder when you push it. It doesn't chatter (wobble) at high speeds, but is less forgiving (it will pick up on your errors).

The Hellcat is heavy, and a lot of ski. I personally learned to ski it in the trees, some fresh snow and all over the mountain. It would not be the only ski I owned (nobody wants just one), but for mostly resort skiing, it'd be my choice out of the three I have skied. It handles ice great.
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Your friends comments seem odd to me.  I only had a few runs on the Hellcat, but I would describe very differently.  To me, it felt like a wide slalom ski -- much more "turny" than most other skis of that width.  (In fact, it was the only Nordica I've tried that I really liked.  In other circumstances I might have been tempted to get one.)

As to what skis are best for you -- I'd listen to SJ cause he usually seems to know what people want / need, sometimes better than they do themselves.

If your just starting to ski, I really think you will have the most enjoyment on a ski that has a waist of 78-88ish and a turn radius of 21meters or less, preferably less. Total length about to eye level. Get a ski with a intergrated binding system, so you can adjusts the bindings to your size without remounting the binding. Just pick up some used ones in the beginning for a few hundred bucks as your going to need boots, etc. If you ski Mammoth, I am surprised you went down Climax on skis if your a nob. O well, as my dad always said, "no sense, no pain".
See you on Climax this winter.

Your picks are all over the map. Just about every ski on your list is going to be totally inappropriate for you. Too wide, to stiff , too aggressive. Get some dialed in boots first. Boot fit is key in skiing. Then get an intermeditate or lower level ski. Then take a half dozen lessons and actually learn to ski.

You are a beginner skier. An intermediate ski is one that you can grow into.

Edit to add:

Something like this is what you should start out on.

http://www.levelninesports.com/head-2005-monster-railflex-skis-177cm-p-2309.html?osCsid=001f77107856af2f3d888ee3d19cf0a1


Edited by tromano - 10/18/09 at 7:47pm

I'm much obliged for all the great inputs...

My friend will sell me that 2008 Hellcat 178cm for $200, which he only used it once. I'm 5"10, 170lbs (and on the one-way street, going up......) So that's why I am considering it. I also have a new 2008 Lange Freeride 110 for $180. Comfy:)

If I decide to go cheap (have my friend's skis), will that hinder me from learning to carve properly, on the Mammoth-alike snow pistes, and Colorado, Big White(Vancouver) and Naeba (Japan)?? Those are the destinations this winter season, where I am planning to take my snowboard and skis to.

I did find some people highly recommend the Railfelx binding or those already integrated with the skis! A good recommendation cuz I wont be able to tell the difference in my first two+ years.

I know all you guys try to warn me not to waste money on those skis. But maybe I read too much reviews and/or Dawgcatching sells his pitch perfectly, I just cant get the Elan Magfire 82it out of my head, just like an inner voice trying to convince myself: I can do it. I can learn.... :(
years.

The reason I didnt look at any 70mm waist skis is based on my ski trip planning. Whenever there is snow dump coming or storm just left, I will start looking for cabin, hoping to catch some powder on the piste or in the trees. Well, that's when I was snowboarding.

So I thought maybe around 80~90mm is the best setup for my habit, and hopefully I can keep using the one I choose (sorta OQS for my terrain choice and snow preference) till one day I can parallel-ski perfectly, edge to edge, without skidding out, then I will buy a pair of skis for the hard-packed and icy surface.

Speaking of skidding out, that's how I got down from Climax. I was so scared when looking down from the top of Climax (almost started saying prayers and goodbye to my family). So when skidding out to break, I used the feedback on my ski tails to help me jump/switch directions, dare not point skis downhill for too long...

So... not "no pain, no gain" ah:) I will definitely see ya on Mammoth b/c I picked up the MVP on April. El Nino plus Mammoth Mt., this year will be awe---------some!




Edited by BrianInfo - 10/18/09 at 11:52pm

Unlike most forum members, I have no idea what level I'm at. Beginner as I'm, maybe a bit of my first exp will further help readers give me the recommendation based on my level. (Level 0:p)

I used my friend's 2008 Nordica Hellcat 178cm on April, spent 3 days in Mammoth. During the stay, I skied all the available pistes on the mountain, from the summit where you'd still find a bit of soft, all the way down to the each lodge where slushie/crud was waiting for me. It was an amazing feeling, so much different from boarding.... both fun, but different~

I tried to maintain parallel in all time, but needed to disentangle my tails/tips from time to time when trying to make quick transition. I only skied in my comfort zone, so I skidded out a lot so as to use the ski tails doing the break, once slow down, I would try to stay on my ski edge by leaning on the side of the boots.

How do I learn? When sitting on the lift, I paid attention to how those good skiers to transfer their balance, stand, body motion on different type of snow; reminding myself not to sit at my butt: lean forward against my boot tongue. I found it easier to turn when I pull my inner leg off the ground, just using the outer leg to turn.

For the past 5 year of snowboarding, I did not take a lesson, oh well, a lesson of "try & error" is my way to learn! But like Tromano suggested, I might take a few lessons on ski this time. My body is getting old, cant take the beat and fall like I used to be when learning how to snowboard.

Anyway, sorry all the mumble, just hope the readers can have a better understanding of my level, AND GIVE ME THE NOD TO BUY "ELAN 82Ti" or "LINE PROPHET 100"...... haha:)

B.

 That Hellcat is a great deal for $200.  I own the Jet Fuel which is the same ski at 84 waist.  I've skied the Hellcat and really like it.  It is a beast!  I don't think it would make a good beginner ski.  You didn't mention how big you are, I am 5'10 165 lb.  I have skied the 170 and the 178 and both work well for me.  

 As everyone has said so far, your initial list is pretty wild.  Since I just bought my first skis last year, I really understand the difficulty of reading reviews on the web and then trying to pick skis for yourself when it's your first pair.  You state early one that you expect to spend most of your time on piste.  So why not get a narrower ski?  I have a 76mm waisted ski that works quite nicely on the groomers but is ok in a bit of powder.  So solve your main problem (a ski for this next year) first and then next year or later you can pick up another one.  Skis often aren't permanent fixtures in your life, so you don't need to plan for one ski to last you for 5 years.  

On the issue of "pro" or "intermediate" skis, I'm not convinced one way or the other.  My skis, Fischer Big Stix 7.6, rather punish me for making a mistake, but that's ok.  It keeps me from repeating the mistake and trying to fix it as soon as possible.  So I don't think it's very important to focus on this area.

The important area for me is price.  Pick up used skis that you can play around with and learn on.  Mine cost me $150 last year, and I think that's about right.  They have lots of life left, and this year I can pick out different skis without feeling too guilty for spending loads of money.  There are lots of used skis on ebay and on the forums here for much less than full retail.  Those Hellcats you mentioned are a good price, but I would lean toward a narrower, more traditional mid-fat ski.  I think it's easier to learn to carve on narrower skis but mid-fats still allow you to ski a bit in the broken areas.  

So again, a vague post that criticizes your list without giving you any specific skis.  But my method for finding skis is just looking on ebay, finding good prices, and then reading reviews here and elsewhere on the inter-tubes.  It's a lot of work, but effective.  And if all else fails, buy whatever you want and get some lessons and have fun.  Skiing is always fun, even on bad gear when you don't know what you are doing.

 I rented ski's for 3 years before I bought a pair of Head monster im82's. I think I skied the "crappiest" ski's, but when you are a beginner it doesn't really make a difference. Like the others said, well fitted boots are the first step.

As you all said, beginner wouldnt tell the difference, and it's so easy to chip, hit, scratch when a beginner couldnt have total control over the ski/board. 5 years ago when I first started snowboarding, I only spent $200 for a whole set of board, boots and bindings, had been boarding on the same crappy board to Japan, Austria, France and here in the States... tiill last year when Southwest lost my whole snowboard bag on the way home from Montana, I finally bought myself a Custom X:)

I have to admit... I was kinda stubborn on what I want, instead of what I really need. But after reading all the suggestions from you guys, I will find myself a proper pair of beginner skis, which means more forgiving and 70mm~80mm waist.

Hopefully next winter season, I will be advanced enough to come back this forum and search for my next skis:)

Thanks everyone~
Brian

PS. I feel it's the right thing to be the supporter of this forum for all the help I've been receiving.... mmm...  sound like a NPR:)