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Can a 120 flex boot help me? (Continued)

#1
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10/13/09 at 7:46pm
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I'm not sure I agree with some of the comments posted above. A stiffer boot may not necessarily improve LTCold's bump and glade sking and may actually hold him back.  This is especially true if he has not yet mastered the skill level necessary to effectively ski bumps and glades.  A stiff boot will force him into the back seat and hinder his ability to absorb bumps. It is far more important to get a good fit without being loose or sloppy. A soft flex will help him improve his bump and glade skiing if the fit is well done. I have a friend who is is great bump skier with 30+ years experience who buys cheap soft boots because he likes the feel. He just makes sure he gets them fitted properly. Personally I like a moderate flex (I own Salomon X-wave 10 and Technica Race Pro 110 boots) for bump and glade skiing.


EDIT BY CIRQUERIDER:  The original discussion this replies to is in Ask the Boot Guys Can a 120 Flex Boot Help Me .
The post was moved based on the unique rules that apply to Ask the Boot Guys.  The permissions for posting are scheduled to be repaired on 10/15/09, and moves like this should become unnecessary.  Members are welcome to discuss any matter in the boot-guys forum here in gear review. 
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#2
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10/13/09 at 7:53pm
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 Easier to make a stiffer boot softer than a softer boot stiffer!

 "Givin' you the Edge" www.snowind.com Synergy coaching/alignment

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#3
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10/13/09 at 11:49pm
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rcahill

agree or dissagree all you like, but could you do it in the open forum rather than hijacking threads

thankyou

ski boot fitting in the UK www.solutions4feet.com

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#4
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10/14/09 at 10:16am
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Where did that come from, CEM?  rcahill's response was squarely within the parameters of the original post, which asked whether a stiffer boot would help or hinder the OP as he learns to ski bumps and trees:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTCold View Post

I want to know if going to a 120 flex boot can improve my skiing? I can easily ski groomed eastern blacks but not bumps or glades, which I want to learn this winter.

(highlighting is mine)

If anything, the whole "fitter vs. puncher" discussion is the tangent.  A welcome one, judging from the OP's further comments, but a tangent nonetheless.

So to return to the question...

LTCold:  You say that you think the 90-flex Heads may be too soft for you, because they're easy to bend.  That sounds to me -- a layperson, not a bootfitter -- like going stiffer might be a very good idea.  But even assuming that the manufacturers are using the same scale, a 90 to 120 jump is huge.  It's the difference between a boot marketed to advanced intermediates who get a few weekends a year, and a boot marketed to advanced, technical, and highly dedicated skiers. 

The people I see on 120s are usually either under 30 or ex-racers, and all of them get a minimum of 40 days a year.  I don't know any 65-year-olds who are trying to expand their horizons and improve.  Kudos to you.

I'm 41, 6'1", and 200 pounds.  I made a jump last year from a Tecnica Rival RX with an 80 or 90 flex rating to a Dalbello Proton 10 with a 100 flex.  I opted to go with the Proton 10 rather than the 120-flex Proton 12 because when I patrol, I'm in my boots for 10 hours straight.  But even that relatively small numeric difference was seriously noticeable.

I'd echo the advice to talk to your fitter intensively about specific boots that will work well with your feet and desires, and include in that discussion the possibility that if you go stiff, you may need to soften them sooner than later.
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#5
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10/14/09 at 10:24am
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 rcahill & TheDad,

This forum is titled "Ask a Bootfitter".  We have carefully selected and screen the bootfitters able to post here on this forum for the purpose of giving accurate information based on years of experience and knowledge.  While yours and others' opinions and observations may be valid they should be posted elsewhere in the general forums so as not to confuse or undermine the professionals here who are donating their time and knowledge to help others with questions or problems.  Feel free to PM a particular bootfitter or poster if you would like to comment or refute something posted here but please do respect the purpose of this forum.

In regards to boot stiffness, there are differing opinions on what is appropriate for different level skiers.  We must consider the person's body dimensions, skill level, aggressiveness, and personal goals before selecting flex stiffness.  Many bootfitters, including myself, prefer boots on the stiffer side knowing that we can properly align the skier in these boots on the fore/aft plane thus benefiting from the increased stiffness rather than being penalized by poorly aligned stiff boots, which in my opinion is a major reason many skiers have difficulty skiing in stiffer boots.

Edited by bud heishman - 10/14/09 at 10:39am

 "Givin' you the Edge" www.snowind.com Synergy coaching/alignment

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#6
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10/14/09 at 7:27pm
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I hadn't realized that it was in the Boot Guys forum.  My bad.
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#7
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10/14/09 at 7:40pm
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 No Worries!

 "Givin' you the Edge" www.snowind.com Synergy coaching/alignment

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#8
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11/3/09 at 9:11am
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agree with rcahill I used to ski Xwave-10 now have a nordica 130 flex.

120 is flex is quit hard. And it might give you some cold, hurting feet due to the flex aint right for you..

The best guys to ask for a good shop really is the local race team, they (mostlly) now where to go to get the best performance.

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#9
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11/5/09 at 1:05pm
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I don't know, I'm 50, unfortunately only get 20 days a year and ski on Technica Dragon 120's.  I'm a solid level 9 (don't get enough powder time to be a level 10) and like the stiffer boot int the bumps and trees.  BUT this is all a question of preference, isn't it?  The only thing that makes sense above is that it is easier to make a stiff boot softer then a soft boot stiffer. 
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#10
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11/5/09 at 1:18pm
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I went from a 110 flex down to a 90 flex and my bump performance went through the roof. Now I could go to a 110-120 i think for more performance on steeps with out too much of a decrease in bump performance. Stiff flex is over rated!
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#11
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11/6/09 at 7:29am
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One thing I found with a softer boot in the bumps is it helps make up for some balance issues most of us have.  The softer flex tends to absorb better forward not knocking you in the back seat.  But ski=free, I think you're right that the stiffer boot is better in the steeps.  Again, as I said I still think this is mostly personal preference. 
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#12
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11/6/09 at 2:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob4snow View Post

I don't know, I'm 50, unfortunately only get 20 days a year and ski on Technica Dragon 120's.  I'm a solid level 9 (don't get enough powder time to be a level 10) and like the stiffer boot int the bumps and trees.  BUT this is all a question of preference, isn't it?  The only thing that makes sense above is that it is easier to make a stiff boot softer then a soft boot stiffer. 
It is not easier to make a stiff boot softer then a soft boot stiffer it's the other way! Just by changing some stuff at your boot you can raise your flex up to 20, so 110 becomes 130 and from a 130 you can make a 150. As we do in the racing scene... Yeah ok, you could say it's easier to make a stiff boot softer just by skiing a lot on this boot. Nowadays the inside boot has his time done before your hardshell starts to losing flex so,at least for me, I don't even get to that point cause I've a new pair before that. Well I ski the whole year without a pause and I ski like really a lot...my boots last 'just' 2 seasons. So I might experience some other things then other people out there ;-)

And I think it's a bit strange to use a hard boot on bumps and powder. This stuff should do better with a soft boot, if it feels better with a hard one it's either because you are a big tall guy or there are some stuff going wrong on the technical side.

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#13
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11/6/09 at 7:21pm
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Airria:  I sort of agree with you to a point and we can debate how to make a stiff boot soft or a soft boot stiff all night but in the end this all comes down to preference.  One thing I've noticed about a lot of these posts is that people are looking for answers that know person can answer.  They can give an opinion but no two people ski the same and what great for me may be cr_p for you. 
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#14
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11/7/09 at 4:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob4snow View Post

Airria:  I sort of agree with you to a point and we can debate how to make a stiff boot soft or a soft boot stiff all night but in the end this all comes down to preference.  One thing I've noticed about a lot of these posts is that people are looking for answers that know person can answer.  They can give an opinion but no two people ski the same and what great for me may be cr_p for you. 
correct.

And remember, 90% of the technical faults people blame to there material are just bad habbits they learned themselfs, or either got learned by someone else. People shouldn't be just skiing good on perfect material, they should also be skiing good on a 20-y/o pair of rampaged skis.

Schumacher can put a good time on a race track with a Volkswagen Transporter, the Ferrari just makes it some seconds faster. That's how it should be: don't buy race equipment and 150 boots for skiing a good run, buy them for making a faster run, the good run can be skied on everything.

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#15
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11/8/09 at 7:11am
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It's a poor skier who always blames his gear.  Years ago I had a friend (then a friend, not now) starting out in skiing and he bought new Pre skis.  The first day out on them he did great.  Skied the greens and blues fairly well for a beginner.  The next day he went out he couldn't ski 10 yards without falling and each time getting up and blaming the skis.  I was sympathetic and empathetic at first but it wasn't long before I was rolling in the snow laughing.  When reflecting back, I did learn a lesson that day (I was only an intermediate at the time) I'll never forget... 

We should all remember that the best gear can't make up for bad technique. 
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#16
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11/8/09 at 8:04am
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I have a low volume foot and am an advanced skier skiing over 50 days per season (61 last season). My goals include skiing with and keeping up with better skiers that I frequently ski with.

My go-to boot is a set of 100/110 stiffness Nordica Speedmachine 10's. They seem to do everything just fine, are comfortable, warm, dry, and fit me well thanks to some fitting work and good custom footbeds. However, when it's a very warm temperature day outside I find that that I need a stiffer boot to accommodate the "higher temperature ski boot softening effect" that takes place on all boots. I have a set of the crazy blue Lange World Cup boots for those warm days. Funny enough the crazy blue set needed no special fitting work other than good custom footbeds to be comfortable and fit me well...  

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