internet skis

 I just bought two pairs of skis online and I have to admit I'm agonizing a bit over how to get bindings mounted on them .Half of my local shops seem to be closing their doors because of guys like me I suppose...but the savings....What is the best way to deal with shops,cuz obviously we still need them for mounting and maintenence?

I know what you mean -- I always feel a little guilty when bringing skis and bindings in for mounting only.

not sure what you are asking,  but I think that you answered the question yourself..

I guess you go to a shop that's still open if you can't mount them yourself!
Seems like the shops at the resorts do OK no matter what.

It's sad to see good places closing, but they've gotta figure out how to survive in a changing market...internet sales aren't just going to stop, surely they're going to become even more popular. I don't like to see small bookshops closing, but Amazon sure is cheap and convenient, you know?

 I don't see any reason why you should have to agonize about bringing your interweb purchases into a shop.  You are still bringing the shop SOME business, they should be glad to have you. There are certain things that will never be available online, so if they are nice to you while mounting your skis they will be more likely to retain your business when it comes around to time for bootfitting, stonegrinds, and any other ski-tuning service that you can't do yourself.  Ski shops are around for more than just retail.  You shouldn't feel bad about paying them for their services!

It's funny how there is a perception that ski shops actually make $ selling skis; they don't. Most of the shops that I know of make their $ from the sale of soft goods, accessories ans service. No one pays retail, or close to MAP anymore. This is a thing of the past. Shops know it; manufacturers know it; consumers thrive on it. There are too many people selling skis on-line at prices below MAP for ski shops to make a living selling skis. It has been this way for a long time.  
Ski shops will always survive. People need to to buy boots,and love to buy the latest fashion there. Also, as previously stated, there is a need for service (mounts, tunes, etc.). Currently, skis adorn the walls of shops more as a novelty and obligation to the manufacturers, than anything else.

I wondered about that, I have tried to buy skis at local shops, but for any ski I wanted the price was always at least 75% of MSRP even on last years skis (I don't know how much MSRP is as a percentage of MAP), except for Cupolos, and they went bankrupt.  Mind you it could be because I look like a sucker; I had a hard time finding a deal on a new car too.

Ghost: Are you from Niagra Falls? Do you see Jay Cupolo at all? I hear that he's selling real estate. 

No, I'm not from or near Niagra Falls,  but I was in the area one spring and bought some skis.  Bought some more over the net too.

 Thanks for the insights all. I was wondering how ski shops manage-it's not selling skis-it's all the other stuff that needs to be fitted.I did buy my boots locally and had them fine tuned by a knowledgeable chap-well worth it.

I'm having a little cognitive dissonance over the above responses to the post at the top.  andescott says that half the local shops seem to be closing, but Virtus_Probi and Canyons seem to ignore that problem.  If the shops keep actually closing because of lack of business then where are people going to get their skis mounted and maintained?  If boots, mounting and maintenance are supposed to be enough to keep shops open, why are they closing?  

I'm going to answer andescott's question - "What is the best way to deal with shops,cuz obviously we still need them for mounting and maintenence?" - by saying that you should consider buying your skis from them so that they don't go out of business.  Clearly mounting and maintenance aren't keeping shops in your area open, and you might think about how much you're going to save in the long run if the remaining shops go out of business.  Did you give the local shops a chance to compete with the on-line seller by going in and talking with them about it?  Many shops will comp mounting and some maintenance if you buy your skis there, and maybe even discount a package.  The term 'false economy' comes to mind.  

I always wander in with skis the shop doesn't sell, so no conflict as far as I can tell. It is to bad so many businesses have been adversely effected by the internet, but on the other hand, many new internet based ski companies have sprung up to sell us gear and I like buying skis made in the USA that the local guy didn't carry. My local shop is gone now, so I have to have all my mounting, tune ups, etc done when in Mammoth. I support the little guy up there.

Well the way look at it is    if a retailer can sell skis for a certain price on the Internet why cant the shop?    do they not get them from the manufacturer at the same price?     I am not even going to act like i know how a shop and manufacturer price there skis..  but If one guy can sell them for one price why cant the other guy?

An internet seller has substantially lower costs and a larger market.  A single employee without any specialized (ski related) training could successfully run an online store and sell more skis than a whole team of people in a store.  Really, all the internet store has to do is hire some 15 year old kid to stick skis in boxes and put a shipping label on them.  If they are really nice, they may even offer to mount your bindings (for a cost of course).  So in order for the ski shop to make a profit, they must sell at a higher price since costs are higher and volume is lower. 

I do not agree that soft goods make up a large part of a stores sales.  At least in the shops I frequent, many of them no longer carry soft goods as they were just being used by customers for sizing then they would leave and purchase online.  I think they have a better chance dealing with the high end market and incorporating cycling or tennis, or other sports that skiers commonly play.  That way they develop year long support for both hard goods, but also maintenance and service.

Well, Bob, I think that you engaged in a little creative editing on my post and then criticized me based upon your editing.
My experience may be different from others, but I haven't seen shops actually on the ski hills closing, or even the ones close to the hills. It may be that being able to let people demo skis immediately before purchase gives them a big advantage in ski sales, and you know that people are always going to wander in needing a quick tune or repair, or maybe some gloves that keep their digits from freezing. So, it might be that you'll be able to get the service you need at the place where you ski for the foreseeable future. This was basically what I was getting at above, not ignoring the issue.
In the area where I live, we used to have two ski shops, and now we have one. I hate the one that remains and wish it had closed instead, so I use a shop close to where I ski. But, there is still one local shop, and there are still two in the next city to the South. It might be that these will start closing over time, but they exist now, if I just have to buy or have something done locally. If the Internet market cuts the number of local shops in half, most of us will probably still have shops within reasonable reach.

Maybe we'll start to see more service-only ski shops? The local shop seems to have less than 1/3 of its space dedicated to service...maybe places that are failing due to retail can survive by renting less space and doing a great job with service, or even charging a bit more for it if local people just can't find enough other places to get it done. I'm not the guy to write the business plan for that, but it doesn't sound impossible to me. Hell, I see cobbler's shops around still, and I wonder how they stay in business, but they are there.

Maybe the ski shops should be the ones letting us know that they will deal on price and/or future service, instead of making the customers drag it out of them. When I go into a ski shop, I see big stickers on every ski saying, oh boy, this is marked down from $1200 to $800!!!, and I know from looking around that you're never going to see anybody trying to sell that ski for $1200. I've talked to the local Fischer distributor, and the prices they gave me were always the "sale" price at the shops. That kind of marketing offends me, and also makes it seem like it would be a waste of time to ask about further "markdowns", because the salesman is probably going to say that the price is already cut to the bone, can't I read?

It's really not for me to tell shops how to manage their business, but I don't feel obligated to use ones that don't meet my needs.

 Okay,this seems to have struck a nerve! What about this wrinkle.The skis I bought online were from an already well established brick-and-mortar shop which is based at a NH ski area.They play both sides of the game I guess.Maybe this is the way the buisness is evolving.In which case a shop like that can't really complain about losing business to the internet,but at the same time this approach may still do harm to other local shops...

Its pretty easy actually.  Give your local retailer a chance to get closer to the internet price. Remember that a mount will run $30-50, so you have to give them that as a handicap.  If they dont carry the ski you want, be honest with the shop and ensure them that you will/do rent your kids stuff there and/or will use their mount/wax services even if you dont buy there.  Or just be frank and buy bindings there.  With an average  50 dollar mount included in the metro new york area at least, it will be close to the web price and support both merchants. 

I have bought skis direct from usa makers, from stores and from internet discount types.  You cant expect a brick and mortar dealer to compete price for price from a web dealer, who does not have to pay overhead.  But the local store is worth at least a try.  

I went to a large ski store in nj  last week for the first time in a number of years. It is the same store we used for 10-15 years growing up.  There were minimal soft goods, and limited ski selection.  It was kinda sad actually.  They were always pretty straight with folks.  Compared to any average shop in utah or out west, the comparison was shocking to say the least. 

It will be a sad day if most local ski shops go under. Just my two cents. 

A long post, but let me see if I can address parts.  The OP wasn't talking about ski shops on the hill and neither was I.  Those places have a rather captive clientele.  I was responding to what you wrote "they've gotta figure out how to survive."  My point is that it's not necessarily completely up to them.  If people want ski shops near them to stay open they need to make an effort to help keep them open.  That means voting with their dollars and going a little ways towards helping the little guy out.  

If there was no concern about the local shops then this thread wouldn't have started.  


Well said.  


Fine if you want to support the shop in NH, but like i said above, if you want local service you should make an effort to shop locally.  

I forgot to add that one advantage a good local shop has over an on-hill shop is that you don't have to take time when you're travelling or on vacation - time that could be spent skiing or otherwise enjoying yourself - to deal with mounting, tuning, fitting, etc.  But if you're fine with taking the time out of your recreational activities to handle nuts and bolts, then that won't concern you.  

As a local, metro shop let me add my $.02 here. I really am thankful when a customer is up-front with me about an internet price and at least gives me the chance to match it or come close and many times I can come within a $50-75 range, customers owe it to themselves to at least give the local shop a shot.  However I really cannot price my all skis as low as a internet shop, it is just not possible for me to sell the majority of my product that way. I am also not afraid to call you out if I think you are shopping me or using me as a sizing dummy. I think consumers need to be honest with the shop in the first place. It is true that ski sales do not make us much of a profit, actually nothing makes us a ton of profit, we make what little money we do on many small things. Most of the good shops (ie the boot fit guys) are not in this for the money, we do it because it is what we live for. Personally I could not see myself in any other industry, I have tried it and hated every minute of it and I had some pretty cool jobs.

The local bike and ski shops in my town all seem to have significantly increased their labor/service charges the last 5 years, which I assume is in response to losing sales to the net. I try to support local shops, but when I can save $300 on a pair of skis or $1,000 on a bike by shopping on line I can find no justification for throwing away money I can't afford.  I pay their service bills with a smile, but if I give them a chance to meet the net price on big ticket items it just ends up with them coming about 1/2 way down to the net price, telling me they can't go any lower, and a face to face guilt trip.  Not the retail experience anyone wants.

Buying on the net is a retail reality. If local shops cannot learn to deal with it then they will suffer.  I think the local shops are losing sales to the informed buyers who do their homework, know what they want, and take the time to find a deal.  There still seem to be lots of people willing to pay full retail for bike and ski sizing and selection assistance with their purchase.  Local shops tend to try and sell you what they have, which is completely understandable, but for a truly informed buyer it is not something they want to pay for or be subjected to.

mudfoot, I think that the point here is what will you do if the local shops go out of business and you can't get service from them?  It won't just be the shops that suffer, it will be the people that used to get service there.  

I understand the point, but I don't think human nature will not allow people to pay considerably more for the same product because of a theoretical future negative consequence. No one is going to repeatedly pay hundreds of dollars more for a pay of skis because they are worried about a shop closing, even if that is the ultimate reality.  People still need bindings mounted and boots fitted, and all the other incidental products and services they cannot readily get anywhere but a local shop.  The shops need to figure out how they can make it work,  I don't think it should be up to the consumer to make an economically stupid purchase in order to keep someone in business.  I try to shop local as much as possible, but there is a point where your wallet just overrides your guilt.

This really is a catch 22.  We all want the best price, we all want to demo, and we all expect service.  Having a demo fleet costs; with the deep discounts required to dispose of them, bindings, required tuning, and the mandatory additional discount if we want to purchase.  How can a fixed location store with these and many more additional expenses compete with the Internet? 

The city shop I use locally, markets on the net as well.  Going to the web sight they carry products not matching their store.  It really is a puzzlement; the products don't match, the prices don't match, and the sight does not promote the physical stores.  Makes you wonder if the shop is renting out the name to a web marketing company?

Have worked in companies within my industry that have an Internet marketing department adjacent to the dealership.  It has caused some very bad situations over time. It takes about 8 - 12 years to really know the products in my industry (the folks you want to talk to before spending $100's of K's), and about high school keyboarding to sell on a web sight. A sales rep works for days with a client doing all the education and the customer reappears for service with their new purchase off of the web, and we never even got a shot at the actual sale.  In interviewing the customers afterward a common thread is that they didn't have to haggle price on the net.  That is a fair point but they rarely purchase the product they wanted either, because it was not available.  Lots of sad stories you don't want to hear.

A sad truth is that most warranty reimbursements do not cover the costs of servicing.  Most of us expect some extras from servicing of most anything.  In skiing it might be lube the bindings, angle the edges, whatever.  These things require time = $; they are not paid for under warranties and you probably don't want to pay for it. 

How do we do this people?  Not just in ski shops but our economic world?  We want: huge choices, best price, demos, service, adjustments, knowledgeable conversation on what we are buying, convenience, no pressures.  We want to fondle the ski wall and smell the Toko, and talk to somebody who actually skis.  Sights like Epic are really great for sharing knowledge, but you words don't show me know that the boots are comfortable on my feet.  What are we willing to pay for these features and how? 

While I am ranting a thought for Sunday.  Would we have had the economic problems we are still going through without the Internet refinancing pushes?

I'm not above walking into a shop to look at a ski and then going online to buy it, though I won't waste a shop employees time if that's my game.  I'm guessing retailers are ok with this, since half their battle is just getting people into the shop.  And sometimes I get thrown off my game and end up buying something there anyway.  Tricky bastards.  The local shop where I bought a pair of skis and bindings on a big sale (too big to include free mounting) offered to mount 'em up for $40 and said it would take 10 min.  At that rate, a steady stream of people like you comes out to $240/hr. Not bad.

This would be a good conversation starter at the bottom of a skin track.

It is not about me, it is about all of us.  We all want to go to the shop, not just see a pic on the Internet.  We want to demo, not just read a testers report.  We want to go to Alta, not just read about it.  Do you rather look at pictures today, or go skiing?  I choose to do! 

About that $240.  There are a few expenses that come with your ability to shop and touch.  Just a couple of these are: rent, inventory, labor, insurance, wages, benefits, advertising, equipment, utilities, warranty, taxes, freight, breakage, theft, and lots more.  You may be able to mount and maintain your own equipment, and fit your own boots.  Most skiers can't, they require a shop.  I can but still prefer the shop, they can do it better normally (I want the holes drilled in the right places).  That is where most of the $240 went.

If your passion is fed only on price, you are a very poor person.

A great point about the importance of being up-front and honest with the shop about your intentions.  I am absolutely  guilty of going into shops to try on boots, with a fitter, having absolutely no intention of buying the boots there.  I always make this clear to the guy who is helping me right from the beginning, telling him that I'm not there to buy, but just want to see what fits.  I will then ALWAYS tip the bootfitter who has given me his time knowing that he is not going to make a sale, and will bring the boots back to the same guy for a fitting after I've bought them elsewhere for a better price.  Matter of fact, I'm in the market for new boots this year so I'll be starting this process soon!  I've found that if you tell someone up front that you will not be buying, but would still like some help with sizing and fit that they will either A) say sorry, but they are too busy at the moment or B) be happy to help.  Either way is fine, I usually try to go at slow times so I won't be keeping someone away from other paying customers.  I've been told "NO" and that was fine.  The shop was clearly busy, and I probably shouldn't have been there trying to get fit anyways.  Usually if someone has put in some time and effort with me, looking at my foot, stance, etc. and tried on a couple of different boots with me to help me make a decision about what I will buy I'll tip him $20.  I use beer with shop guys, but to me a real tip just seems more appropriate for a bootfitter.  Can't really say why, but it seems to go over well.  

HI
The price of 09/10 should be about the same where ever you buy them. If some shop is much lower in price, then they are most likely selling grey goods.The pring on left over product can be all over the place. I understand going for the best deal. But what is the best deal? A low price, or product support, and info. If you put in the time, and effort you will always find a lower price, but not always the best deal. I SUPPORT MY LOCALS SHOP AS MUCH AS I CAN, BUT SOMETHINGS I BUY OFF THE NET.  The best deal is what you are happy with.

Yes shop don't stock a wide range of products, because what ever they carry,  it will not be would the buyer wants. Shops can order what you want, even find deals on left over. They can offer price programs for racer, mt, staff, clubs, schools and pros..

Perhaps you misunderstood my point.  The OP was "agonizing a bit over how to get bindings mounted on them", and that's the post I was responding to.   I'm not saying shops are overcharging or not providing good value for that $40, I'm just saying that it's $40 in marginal revenue for ten minutes work, which sounds like a solid sale to me.  If the shop didn't want to mount internet skis for $40 they would charge whatever it took to make the deal work for them.  So while the OP may feel guilty for buying online, he's not doing his local shop any favors by not getting them mounted up there.

I look at the internet for skis that I can't buy from my local shop.  The last pair of skis I purchased from a shop were unique and hard to find.  The guy threw in bindings and mounted them for me while I waited.  The price was exceptional and the service was phenomenal, but I left asking myself, how can you make money in a business like this.  And it seems to me that any retail shop that is busy mounting bindings at $40. a pop but not selling skis is in trouble.

When you save $300. on a purchase - that's a legitimate savings.  I intend to bring my purchase to the shop and tell them what I need.  If the answer is no then I will have to go else where.  I support my shop by buying what I can.  I refer business to them as well.  But they offer a limited selection and that's a problem for me.

The last two years have been difficult for local shops and I worry about not having them for the support that the sport requires.  They could be gone in the near future.  Not only internet sales, but Sports Authority also undercuts and provides poor service.  It would suck to not have a local shop.  The local shops are owned and staffed by exceptional people.