Heliskiing in Alaska and skiing ability?

Hello, everybody!

I love skiing off-piste and would prefer skiing powder over skiing groomers everytime I had the chance to (which doesn't mean I'm so good at skiing powder). My local hill is in Finland, around 1000' vertical and not too much powder snow. Still you can get some decent snow in the trees which is where the main off-piste skiing is.
I can also ski any groomed run out there in a peace of mind, including the FIS slalom course (that's in Levi if you know).
I have had some experience skiing  bigger terrain in deep snow (wide-open bowls) but not too much.

So my question to you, more experienced skiers who have heliskied in Alaska, is what do you think  the minimal ability level required for heliskiing over there is?

I know there is some killer terrain, but also there is a good number of runs for mere mortals. But anyway how one can understand he's ready to go?

Thanks for your attention.
Edited by GNOJ - 8/6/2009 at 11:34 am GMT

You might be better off cat skiing in Canada first.  The whole experience is a little more forgiving.  The snow is generally better, the terrain is mellower and cats are much slower.  That being said, if you went to CPG and did a couple of days at the resort, couple of days in the cat and then ended it with a couple of days in the heli.  You would probably be fine. 

http://www.chugachpowderguides.com/

Thank you, SHRED!

But how can you describe the least skilled skier category? 

Thanks.

Contact the outfit that you want to fly with and ask them if you are good enough.  Their opinion is the only one that matters since they are the ones that decide whether you get on the heli or not.  It is going to vary by outfit and trip anyway.  Be sure you get an understanding of what happens to you (and your money) if it turns out that you can't keep up, aren't good enough, etc.  Find out how much hand-holding you can expect from the guides.  Also, understand how fit you'll need to be; i.e what is the average amount of vertical you are going to need to ski (without stopping) between safe zones?  Finally, make sure you know what happens to you (and your money) on no-fly days. 

Based on your initial post, it doesn't sound like you have enough experience to be allowed to ski the terrain that it sounds like you might be wanting to ski, so why go to Alaska?  Canada would probably be a much better choice.  Wiegle World or Canadian Mountain Holidays (CMH) both cater to a wide range of clients. 

I agree with Shredhead.  As someone who has heli skied in the USA and Cananda several times, and cat skied there and in Alaska, and also have several friends that have heli-skied in Alaska, I think you may want to take a smaller/cheaper step to start.  It depends on the company and the skiers, but they don't really have intermediate heli-ski terrain.  If you are not prepared to ski fairly steep deep snow all day you would probably be wasting your time and money, and possibly other peoples'.  Canada and Alaska have lots of cat-skiing opportunities that will give you a taste of what heli-skiing is like, but in a cheaper and more forgiving environment.  Try Chugach Powder Guides out of the Alyeska Ski Resort in Girdwood, AK,  They have cat and heli skiing, with the resort and cat as back up when the weather is bad.  Because of the weather the AK heli ski operations average flying only 50% of the time.  If you book a week in a remote heli-ski location you are a complete slave to the weather.

Trust me, you do not want to be the least skilled skier on a heli ski trip with experts who have paid thousands of dollars to ski, but spend every run waiting for a weaker skier.  For many people heli-skiing is like a drug (a very expensive drug), and they do not tolerate those who cannot keep up very well.  Cat skiing will give you almost the same terrain and conditions at a fraction of the price, and a nicer opportuntity to see how you handle it.

GNOJ,
I also agree with the above suggestions.  AK is probably not the best choice for your first heliskiing.  There are many great places in British Columbia where you could combine some big mountain resort skiing with heli & cat skiing, & get an idea of where you fit in.
AK Heliskiing 3/20-3/26 2008

INDY 5000:  The last line we skied.  This one was 5000' vertical. They weren't all this exposed, but most runs you needed to ski at least 3000' non stop & confidently to a safe zone... you get the idea.



JF

Thank you, guys! But those pics do look so sweet and it looks like (potentially) the ultimate drug to me.

But I will of course go on a cat trip somewhere first and after that I may try going to some heli-outfit in Canada. Only after that will I attempt heliskiing in Alaska.

Still, let me ask one more question. 


How can I understand (at some point) that I'm ready for AK? Are there some formal criteria? Like, if you can ski Corbett's you can heliski in Alaska.


Sorry for being naive.

You'll know you are ready when you will not get enough out of the terrain you ski...

Yet one more interesting thing. The heliski ops state that they have terrain for intermediate skiers. I am just not sure what they mean by intermediate.?

A quote from PNH:

"You don't have to be an "extreme skier" to come to Alaska. Although magazines and movies have created the "extreme skiing scene" in the Chugach Range, there are endless opportunities for everyone. At PNH we match your ability to the terrain. We recommend that guests be intermediate level riders and comfortable in a variety of snow conditions" 

I did a trip with CMH in Canada where we had excellent condtions and my group of friends skied non-stop all day every day. There was another group from France sharing our copter, they had 4 groups of 11 guests each using one helicopter.  When things are going well it is waiting for each group at the bottom of their run.  Because the French were weak skiers they would sometimes get skipped for a run, and every day after lunch their entire group woud go back to the lodge.  It was obviously their vacation to do as they wanted, but it seemed kind of wierd that they came all the way from Europe but were not in shape to handle what they had paid for.

If you book with a group of friends but cannot keep up, they may put you in with a group of slower strangers in order to make the dynamic work for the most amount of clients.  Different companies have different size groups and copters, but the bottom line is they will only go so far in catering to weak skiers because the others have paid a lot of $$ for their trip and they will not let someone who is over their head screw it up.

Heli-skiing is always reduced to the slowest common denominator, and you do not want that to be you.  Regardless of what the company tells you, my experience is that you need to be a strong deep snow skier both technically and physically in order to really enjoy the heil skiing experieince, and get your money's worth. There are some outfits that offer a mellower experince, but I don't think you will find them in Alaska.

Thank you all, guys!
I'm gonna work on my skiing and fitness. It may take some 5-7 years but somehow I'll do this and share a TR with you.

All the best. 

This is true, at my somewhat advanced age I would not consider myself an extreme skier, although I am comfortable in all snow conditions & steepness.  I thoroughly enjoyed skiing in Alaska & can't wait to go back, but it is really more of a heli served backcountry experience.  Maybe some of the other AK ops are more civilized, but where we skied was a very bare bones operation.  Everyone I met there was either a pro or experienced backcountry skier.  They were also mostly under 40 yrs. old & in very good condition.  The guides where helpful in choosing what runs to ski & making snow stability assessments, but beyond that you where pretty much in charge of your own decisions & safety.  Also, as Mudfoot pointed out we only skied 2.5 out of 5 possible days.  Conditions can vary widely, one day the snow was so unstable we only skied one run, & that was questionable.  The next time we skied it was bomber stability.  Certainly there is plenty of easier terrain in Alaska, but I don't think I would reccomend going there to ski it, as the snow quality is too fickle.  Next time I will spend at least 2 weeks up there.

On the other hand, I spent a week skiing at Wiegle's about 14 yrs. ago.  The terrain & snow was fabulous.  We averaged 35000' vertical each day & the weather was great.  There was a wide range of skiing abilities & terrain to match.  There were enough guests there, that groups could be matched closely to ability & terrain skied.  The accomodations & food were stellar.

JF

4ster do you have some videos of your skiing so I could assess a typical Alaska heliskiing guest?

Thanks.

How old are you, BTW? 

Long, Long ago did some fill in copter guiding with what used to be Alyeska Air Service.  We would have a lot of what would today be considered level 6 type skiers.  There were a lot of Japanese tourists, so there were language issues too.  We had some really nice 4,000+_ vertical runs worked out that fit them well, and a good time was had by all.  This is back in the early 70s', so the equipment made for a whole different level of experience.  That said the mountains and the snow have not changed.

Not everyone who wants, or can afford, the experience is a world class skier.  The people running these operations are guides, they don't want to see anybody hurt, very bad for business.  Smart operations are going to have groups that will fit your level of ability.  One copter used to serves several groups quite often, which were arranged by capabilities.

If you can, send the organization you are looking at a video of your skiing.  They can evaluate your ability and give you an answer.  They want your money, but they don't want to tick off the rest of the customers.  Repeat business is where it is at for them too. 

If Skiing Alaska is your dream, go for it.  It is something you will never forget.  After 35 years, I can close my eyes and still see some of those runs, they are epic.

Yeah, that is my No.1 ski dream really. And I'll do this sooner or later.

I'm only 23 right now so I still have time to prepare myself.

Thanks. 

I've skied with PNH in March 2008 - great operation and organization. They have around 40 guests at a time and they divide them into groups of 4 plu a guide. They have 3 helis, which means that there are 3-4 groups per heli. Usually the groups of the same ability will be assigned to one of the helicopters, which will serve appropriate for these groups terrain. From my experiance, the key is to have a group of 4 with the very similar abilities, that way you do not hold anybody and you are not waiting for anybody else. I would strongly recommend to get a group of yours - that way it is much easier for the guide to figure out where to stick you....

Here are some examples of what PNH terrain looks like:

More advanced

Skiers are in the upper left corner
















More mellow terrain:











Also keep in mind that heli-skiing is very weather sensitive - wind, snow, fog, clouds mean no skiing. Cats operations are more robust in that sense.

Whatever you decide - enjoy!

Cheers,

cfr

Great shots cfr!  I am in Tahoe...  snow level 9'000'!
JF

cfr why did you post all that shit???

The mellower type of terrain is definitely what I'll be able to do in a couple of seasons (if everything goes OK).
The more advanced - I'll never ever ski this and I don't even plan to.
The last four pictures made me drool so badly.
And it is still summer...

Thanks Jim! 9000' is not that bad for August ;-) I'm on my way to Oregon for a week.

GNOJ:

The great irony of heli-skiing is that a large portion of the people that do it have "more money than legs."  It is very very expensive, and the people who can afford it are usually able to do so because they spend their time working instead of skiing.  It is not uncommon to find rich out of shape guys on the trips that are not physically up for a week of heli-skiiing.  The ones to watch out for are the vertical junkies that spend all their time and money heli skiing and expect everyone else to keep up.  From my perspective, the best trip is usually had with those folks that are doing a once-in-a-lifetime dream trip and come ready to ski hard and smile big, which is what is sounds like you will be when you finally make it.

When I was your age I was a dirtbag ski bum, and then a pro patrolman.  What got me to go back to college at the age of 29 was the realization that on my present course I would never be able to realize my dream of heli-skiing. I finally did it, and believe me it was worth the wait and the work to get there. Don't give up on your dreams, and in the mean time keep skiing as much as possible so you'll be ready when the time comes.

cfr

What type of terrain did YOU ski? What did you use for skis? 

Than you for the kind words, mudfoot! 

GNOJ,
I am 53 yo. not too old, but older.  I ski 130 days a year. 
It is difficult to shoot video up there, because most runs are non-stop.  My friend managed to get this clip from a distance.  You'll have to watch it closely, & more than once.

JF

Yeah, I love it too ;-)

Forgot to add, but I think somebody already said it - with heli-skiing it is not terrain only. Ability to ski non-stop 2000-3000 vertical feet continuously through out a day for 3-4 days is also very important. On out first day we've got 11 rides - some sort of local record. Started around 9am and came back to the base around 8pm. The days are very long there, even in March. I thought I'm going to die... And I've already got 50-60 skiing days by that time in the season. Fit is very, very important thing there... But this is what you get there:



Cheers,

cfr

I skied all these runs except of spine - PNH guys were filming there.

I had 190 Gotama's over there.

STOP POSTING THIS!!!

It is summer and I am a jong. I shouldn't have statred this thread... Well, I'm joking.

Thank you guys for excellent answers.

And what did you use for ski actually? 

4ster I see you triggered an avalanche and even it looks yummy!

Well I should ski more, you're right. 

Are you skiing up at Hood?
JF

Half business, half vacation. It is very tempting to jump to Mt. Hood though... Still thinking about logistics. How long are you at Tahoe? Any chance to get down to the bay area?

cfr

I will be in Tahoe at least till the end of August.  PM me if you get up this way.  I hope to get down to Santa Cruz & San Jose to visit family.
Ha Ha, you started it all right, & we are all jong's in some way, besides it is cold, cloudy & windy today... makes me think of skiing.

I skied on 181cm Fischer Prohete's 106mm waist.  Lot's of folks were on bigger full rockered skis.

JF