What helps you keep cadence?

Had a pretty cool experience on this morning's commute ride. For about three miles I had a freight train right next to me, and although it was going faster than I was, the sound of it helped me keep my cadence.  It was pretty cool, and the engineer  gave me a good wave as he passed. With the fog burning off the river just on the other side of the train, it was a really enjoyable ride, and I had one of my fastest avg speeds yet for this particular ride.

 

Can't always have a train handy though. The other day on the same ride, I unfortunately found myself keeping pace to:
 

F-R-E-E that spells Free, Credit report dot come baby....over, and over, and over. By the time I got to work I was ready to hunt that dude down and garrote him with his own guitar string.

 

So, besides a cadence computer thingy, what helps you keep it going?

 

Oh yeah...and I passed a guy I know on the last 1/2 mile climb on our site campus. That was sweet. I'm big enough that I'm sure it shocks people when I pass them!

 

I've been using 80rpm+ for so long that anything slower feels unnatural and weird.

 

Back in the day I used to spot check my knees with fast counts of 1-2-3-4 and strive for a floaty feel to the cleats, ie. make sure there was no particular point at which they were slammed into the pedal. 

 

Back in the heyday of Weebl's Stuff, some of the guys used the Badger Badger Badger theme.

 

http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/badgers/   <-earworm alert!

 

 

 

LMFAO I love that!

 

I go for the floaty feeling in the cleats too. When I look up or start to think about what I am doing a bit more (get out of the "zone") I realize I am at my fastest speeds.

I couldn't do its without a computer and I use this: http://www.cateye.com/en/product_detail/407

 

This is a wired model, said to be more reliable than the wireless. No risk of interference from other wireless devices.

 

Michael 

 

 

 

Or high voltage power lines. Things I've discovered after the fact...

candence measuring is way overrated and 80 + rpms = sky rocketed heartrate for me.

 

me = pure diesel power.

90-110 for me almost all the time.  Even when I try not to!  Anything slower feels unnatural - I'm a spiiner for sure.  I have a Polar-puter that has too much crap, but I got it on a pro purchase, so hey, why not? 

Put me down in the diesel category......70-80ish.......

 

No computers, heart rate monitors or music

 

 

Just enjoy the ride

 

 

Nothing works for me once I have 2 hours and 1500 height meters behind me :) I have Polar with whole bunch of fancy things, but seeing cadence number there doesn't do miracles and my legs don't want to spin faster by itself, even if number on Polar is too low :D

Otherwise I'm normally somewhere around 75-80rpm, but when climbing up on long and steep hillss, 45 rpm is nothing all that weird... at least for me :) But then again, I guess things are different on MTB then they would be, if I would be on road bike.

 

 

http://www.cvphysiology.com/Cardiac%20Function/CF018.htm

 

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/57/4/971

 

 

  Serves you right for being young enough to climb 1500m without at least a 90 minute warm up first.

 

 

OK, Dr. Comprex, interesting read. 

 

Does the information boost the use of a faster cadence... or not? Or does it just help to explain the faster heartbeat rate?

 

Michael

 

 

The skeletal muscle pump looks like it has the same stroke volume regardless of speed - faster cadence at same wattage = good.

The way I read the second article, faster or deeper opera singer breathing = bad,  faster or deeper rib cage breathing = good.

 

BTW, If belly fat counts as 'gentle abdominal pressure' wrt. the findings of the second bit, I'm toast no matter what I do.  Notice also the implications in the never ending  bib/shorts debate.

 

 

 

LOL, I read the articles and got a similar take on it. 

 

Michael

 

 

 

ok Ill bite....

 

I have been working with trying to spin out smaller gears sometime instead of just upshifting right away to try to 'save' my muscles basicailly trying to increase my range of cadence while knowing my body works best at lower cadences

 

but if you can produce higher wattage at a lower cadence what is wrong with that? Each pump of blood will cause the heart to beat faster which is not the most desirable thing in the world.

 

For a longer Mountain bike race a lower cadence will keep you body from running though calories as fast higher cadence with a hummingbird heart. Each contraction of the muscle will cause the blood to flow which the good thing is it gets rid of latic acid buildup the bad thing is it causes you heart to beat faster.

 

The best advice I could give any newbie cyclist is if you heart and lungs are maxed, try a higher gear. If your legs are maxed down shift.

 

 

 

 

but I can keep  rhythm with no metronome

 

and I can also ride my bike with no handlebars. it turns out.

I read this below as indicating that there is no one answer for the right cadence.  They believe it is an empirical quesiton.

 

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/training-explained.aspx

 

For me, I notice that when I downshift while climbing and pick up cadence up, power output increases.  It seems like my optimal cadence is around 90-100 rpm.

 

Mike

 

Josh,
 

 

Your in good shape, so this might not apply to you. A lower gear gives you a mechanical advantage, assuming the same power at the higher cadence. The body will develop power at whatever cadence it adjusts to, this part is a matter of training. A higher cadence is easier on the joints and helps develop cardio capacity.

 

Riders like yourself that are happy at (let's say) 80 are able to spin faster as needed. It's newer riders who never maintain a high cadence that benefit from learning to increase their cadence.

 

Michael

 

 

There really is no right cadence. Armstrong might be spinning with 100rpm, while Ullrich was pretty much just as good and strong (those few seconds difference in 3000km of TdF can't really count as huge difference), but was spinning with a lot lower cadence (not to mention Gonchar and his far from bad TT runs where he was spinning with 60 rpm or less :)).

There's perfect cadence for you, and there's perfect cadence for me, and they can be 50% different numbers. Point is to find this perfect cadence for you and your body, not trying to emulate someone else, no matter if it's Armstrong with high cadence or Ullrich with low(er).

 

Where do you get that from?

 

 A pump of blood by the skeletal muscle pump reduces the resistance the heart sees at each one of its strokes.  

 

  If the wattage is proportional to flow rate and the flow rate is held constant, then the pressure at the heart pump can be lower.

I agree that the right cadence varies for different people, as Primoz pointed out in his classic examples.  The famous coach Eddy B (the Polish name was permanently shortened to B) claimed that many riders would benefit from moving to a higher cadence, but that it takes a year of work to move their efficiency peak to the higher rpm.  In the end however, they are faster riders for it.

In the case of Sergei Gonchar that would have been up to 65.  In the case of Bushwacker, we have a young strong rider who might benefit from some good coaching to find his ultimate best cadence.

I agree, somethings wrong. The amount of distance he puts in he should be doing better in the wvmba series. More interval training?  He should be at least top 20 in these ultra's. I have a friend that doesn't put in close to that distance and he's typically top 10 expert/pro.

Edited by BushwackerinPA - 8/21/09 at 11:35am

 I really don't mean to be insulting but, interval training is key. Particularly for MTB. I'm usually neck and neck with the guy that placed 20th in that Big Bear ultra. I'm probaly 18 years older than you, 50lbs heavier, yeah I've raced more but, you should be kicking may ass. Sorry. Add some intervals, hills preferably.

Edited by BushwackerinPA - 8/21/09 at 11:35am

Endurance racing is about personal bests.

200k, 300k, 400k, 600k.

See:http://ultracycling.com/training/dc_mistakes.html


Edited by WILDCAT - 8/20/09 at 6:59pm

We are getting into training theory, and that can NOT be answered in an online forum.  Interval training can indeed make one a better marathoner.  Weight training and power increase was key to my neighbour winning two Olympic XC ski medals.  Get a good coach you believe in, and don't listen to hacks like me any further.
Edited by newfydog - 8/20/09 at 10:19pm

Sure, interval training is really important for race training, BUT ONLY AFTER building a sufficient base.  BWPA, it may be that you simply haven't done enough base work yet.  Take a look at Friel's Ultimate Training Bible for Cycling and see if you've got something approximating the base mileage.  If not, you might need to suspend the interval work for a while while you build the base.

I'm currently training for a fast century after training for the Bicycle Tour of Colorado (not a competitive event, but it was 515 miles over 6 days, so like a stage race).  I didn't really start the interval work until two months into base training, and didn't focus on them until after the BTC.

Mike

Sorry Mike, that is nothing like a stage race.  At all.  See post above.

Point well taken however, I agree that a base is important.  60-90 miles a day for a few years would be a good start.  Then add speed and technique.