Thinking about a new ski car...

 I am less than a year from my lease ending on my 09 Forester so I have already been starting to think about what to replace it with. Now I have had 16 or so Subies and you might not know, I have also had close to the same amount of VW's over the years too. Yeah, I go through cars almost as often as skis. If I go new, I think it will be between the '10 Subaru Outback (since there is no Legacy wagon any more) and a '10 VW Jetta TDI Sportwagon. 

'10 Outback...

+AWD

+Room (70+ Cubic ft), but too big?

+Reliability

-Mileage, low 20's

-high center of gravity

-smaller sunroof than in previous generation

'10 Jetta

+Mileage, mid 40's

+Torque

+Fun to drive

+Huge Sunroof

-No AWD

-Smaller, 66 cubic feet, too small?

-More temper mental in service, but 3 years inc.

Does it come down to AWD vs. Mileage? Thoughts on the topic? I thought I would ask here to get a more unbiased opinion, The VW and Subies sites are obviously biased. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug 

 I am less than a year from my lease ending on my 09 Forester so I have already been starting to think about what to replace it with. Now I have had 16 or so Subies and you might not know, I have also had close to the same amount of VW's over the years too. Yeah, I go through cars almost as often as skis. If I go new, I think it will be between the '10 Subaru Outback (since there is no Legacy wagon any more) and a '10 VW Jetta TDI Sportwagon. 

 

'10 Outback...

+AWD

+Room (70+ Cubic ft), but too big?

+Reliability

-Mileage, low 20's

-high center of gravity

-smaller sunroof than in previous generation

 

'10 Jetta

+Mileage, mid 40's

+Torque

+Fun to drive

+Huge Sunroof

-No AWD

-Smaller, 66 cubic feet, too small?

-More temper mental in service, but 3 years inc.

 

Does it come down to AWD vs. Mileage? Thoughts on the topic? I thought I would ask here to get a more unbiased opinion, The VW and Subies sites are obviously biased. 

 

Phil,

I was actually looking at the TDI Jetta Sportwagon as a replacement to my aging GTI. With proper snows the FWD will be a non issue. I have had zero problems and I have WAY less ground clearance with my lowered Vdub. My only real concern is just how available diesel fuel is in some areas? The plus 40 cent per gallon is a wash with the 40+ mpg. Need to really see just how big the Sportwagon is with the back seats down (or out).

I love my diesel Jeep, but I use it mostly as a long haul trip car. The diesel is great cruising, not so great around town. I haven't driven the VW diesels though. BTW, in CO right now diesel is cheaper than regular :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossi Smash 

 

Phil,

I was actually looking at the TDI Jetta Sportwagon as a replacement to my aging GTI. With proper snows the FWD will be a non issue. I have had zero problems and I have WAY less ground clearance with my lowered Vdub. My only real concern is just how available diesel fuel is in some areas? The plus 40 cent per gallon is a wash with the 40+ mpg. Need to really see just how big the Sportwagon is with the back seats down (or out).

 

Diesel here is about the price of Premium. The mileage will still out weigh the higher cost of the fuel, and then there is the intoxicating torque. The Jetta is about the size of the current OB/Leg SW and looking at the room inside it looks to be perfect, I will bring over a 180cm ski to make sure. A box is always an option too. In a way I am getting tired of the car carousel, but that is easier to say than to change. 

For a ski car, I'm not sure I'd give up the interior space or ground clearance that you've become accustomed to.

My $.02 on the AWD vs FWD with snow tires issue (I assume you'll be putting snows on the Jetta).  I have an Outback and a FWD Integra with snow tires on it.  There are definitely things that the outback can get up that the integra can't.  I find that I never have problems with the integra as long as I keep moving, but if you have to come to a stop on a hill for some reason (I try *really* hard to never do that) there's really no substitute for power to all 4 wheels.  Obviously the outback with snows on it would be the best of all worlds.

There is really only one ski car, for a variety of reasons. Having owned vw's you probably really know this, but need confirmation. Lets be honest vw's are unreliable POS, I love vw's, but quality control??? Also Subaru all-wheel drive and a set of studless snows= winter domination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxammo 

There is really only one ski car, for a variety of reasons. Having owned vw's you probably really know this, but need confirmation. Lets be honest vw's are unreliable POS, I love vw's, but quality control??? Also Subaru all-wheel drive and a set of studless snows= winter domination.

Having now had two different VW GTI's, both for over 10 years each, my results vary significantly from yours.

Both cars have been very little trouble and are actually FUN to drive. Something not to be said about the Subie's (the FUN part, I've had two of them as well). With Blizzaks on all corners they've always got me where I needed to get and they are lowered, having 4" of ground clearance. Yes with the Subie you can actually look for trouble in deeper snow but you pay a high price for it the other 8 months of the year.

Not having a Miata any more, I don't have a fun car. In driving the Jetta wagon (6 speed)  through some twisties, it was fun. I don't think the new Outback will be as fun. I would have preferred Subaru keeping the Legacy GT wagon. I would plan on running snows on the Jetta and probably the OB too. 

Alfa 159 Sportswagen 2.4JTDm Q4 or 3.2 V6 JTS Q4

If you think the Jetta was fun on the twisties, try a real car!

Remember to check the ground clearance on the vw. At the very least, get yourself a steel belly pan to replace the stupid plastic one. Problem is they use cast aluminum oil pans and they arent very well protected. I dont know if they have fixed it yet - but our golf has gone through 2 oil pans - one a slow leak we found on the driveway in the am and one a catastropic puncture on the highway that required a tow. The deisel geek pans are way cheaper than 600$ repair and tow ;)

I have been looking at cars to replace my 2005 Neon SRT4.  We don't get tons of snow here but I do like to be able to get around when we do.  My search has been all over the map though.  I have looked at everything from the same VW all the way up to full size diesel trucks.  Give your choices I would lean towards the Subaru.  They're not really an option for me because I don't like any of the dealers in my area, but they seem to be a very good blend of performance, reliability, and ruggedness.  Are you planning to lease the new car?  If you are planning to buy you may want to look at the long term costs maintaining the car.  From what I read online VW's have very specific requirements for something as simple as an oil change if you want to keep your warranty.

Why not another Forester -- bored, or problems?

Are convenience and quality of dealerships equal?  If not, how does that affect the value of the 3 years service from VW?

I'm happy to have a Subaru dealer in town where I can leave the cars for service while I'm at work -- about 10 extra minutes in the workday to deal with any service issues.  But there haven't been any -- just oil changes.

OTOH it was a pain in the neck to get the "free" service on an Audi A4 --  and there were a good 4 or 5 issues per year.

Zoom Zoom...the Mazda CX7 is a sporty smaller SUV.

I like the CX7, the 1 draw back with it though is the need for premium gas for the turbocharged engine.  I think they probably could have gotten nearly the same fuel economy with a V6 that runs on regular.

  Its not so much my experience, but the VW rates very low on the CR incidence of repair list. I have a GT wagon and its very fun, and I've never not been able to plow through deep snow with it. With the summer tires on It will take the hairpin on the way down from Tline fast enough you'll peel your face off the side window :)    I think an Audi would be a great car too, but again the reliability issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ts01 

Why not another Forester -- bored, or problems?

 

I preferred the Legacy platform, plus with it pushing more wind, I have been unimpressed with the mileage, 23.7 average, where I got 27 w/ the Leg SW. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILDCAT 

Zoom Zoom...the Mazda CX7 is a sporty smaller SUV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstreu1026 

I like the CX7, the 1 draw back with it though is the need for premium gas for the turbocharged engine.  I think they probably could have gotten nearly the same fuel economy with a V6 that runs on regular.

I do like the style, but a real cheap interior, IF I go AWD, Subies are the best. Requiring Premium and low 20's MPG are another reason. 

You're east coast, so the clearance seems like a non-issue.  I don't think you usually get any dumps of a depth that wouldn't be cleared before you had to go somewhere.  I think you need to mentally drive the places you go via car to ski...For instance, all it took was ONE time not being able to get up the hill to our place at the Village at Camelback and having to hitchhike up with an infant to convince me that I wanted AWD.  I may not have needed it 99.99% of the time, but it made me a believer.  Now I live in MT at the top of an incline (after weaving curves) that is sufficient to preclude all deliveries and trash pickups the entire winter, and I REALLY need it.  My car is the main winter transport for the season as both the FWD van and the Toyota Tundra with 4WD just are NOT as reliable as my car both up and down the hill.  My daughter has a Subaru Legacy that is pretty good, but the clearance is an issue sometimes (it's a mere 4 inches).  

Of course, you don't have to have every car be the ski car.  If you rack on a lot of long distance driving, maybe you need your car to be the "distance" car and a different car to be the ski car and just swap with Lola depending on who is doing what kind of driving that day.

I was a long time VW driver (4 snows in winter) before making the switch to a Subaru. Even though the VW was a great driving car, I don't miss the hassles, nor the repair bills. I love the AWD, regular fuel and low maintenance of the Subaru. I drive a Legacy sedan and love it!

Its a shame the Alfa Sportswagen is unavailable here in the US.  Sweet ride.  I saw one in Italy and could not stop thinking about one. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wear The Fox Hat 

Alfa 159 Sportswagen 2.4JTDm Q4 or 3.2 V6 JTS Q4

 

If you think the Jetta was fun on the twisties, try a real car!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibhusky 

You're east coast, so the clearance seems like a non-issue. 

...

I've suffered through more than one storm that dumped 20+" of heavy, wet stuff in a hurry, and you're always going to find spots that haven't been cleared. I had to spend hours digging my wife's Avalon out of snow that didn't look like much...she just managed to push enough of it ahead of her to really get in trouble.
 

I wouldn't ignore clearance just because we're talking EC here, not by a long shot.

I've mentioned it here before...my RAV4 V6 is great fun to drive and gets me to the hill, but I can't endorse it as an ultimate ski car because it just doesn't match my old Outback as a winter machine. Even with Blizzaks. Subaru just has AWD down pat.

I have two that I enjoy and recommend:  the Toyota 4Runner 4-wheel drive and the AWD BMW 328ix sports wagon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJB 

I have two that I enjoy and recommend:  the Toyota 4Runner 4-wheel drive and the AWD BMW 328ix sports wagon.

No SUV and the Bimmer is too small. Thank you for playing and we have some nice parting gifts for you. 

I'm assuming the Jetta Sportwagon equals the Golf (Rabbit?) Station wagon over here, and the 2010 is based on the new mk VI? Here they will have 4motion for sure, strange if they won't be available with that in the US.

Looking at the us website, can't find it on the Passat either, even the Tiguan is fwd - wtf?

Quote:

Originally Posted by torfinn 

Looking at the us website, can't find it on the Passat either, even the Tiguan is fwd - wtf?

They don't want to hurt Audi sales.

That's why you can't get a 2-door A3 either.

My biggest problem with subbies is that they need to hire a great auto designer.  Until the new Forester and the 2010 Outback their cars were visually boring. Great cars but very plain Jane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by torfinn 

I'm assuming the Jetta Sportwagon equals the Golf (Rabbit?) Station wagon over here, and the 2010 is based on the new mk VI? Here they will have 4motion for sure, strange if they won't be available with that in the US.

 

Looking at the us website, can't find it on the Passat either, even the Tiguan is fwd - wtf?

Jetta is Bora or whatever they call it in Europe.

The difference is that the Jetta for US is made in Mexico therefore the quality issues.

I had/have Jettas, Passats, GTI, BMW, MB and others. Jetta is POS, but Passat is OK.

If you want VW, get Passat wagon. Its made in Germany and its more reliable than Mexican Jetta. If you can afford it, get Audi or BMW wagon or BMW X5 for the same price.

J.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topper 

My biggest problem with subbies is that they need to hire a great auto designer.  Until the new Forester and the 2010 Outback their cars were visually boring. Great cars but very plain Jane.

for years, Subaru Styling was an oxymoron.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jancouver 

 

Jetta is Bora or whatever they call it in Europe.

The difference is that the Jetta for US is made in Mexico therefore the quality issues.

I had/have Jettas, Passats, GTI, BMW, MB and others. Jetta is POS, but Passat is OK.

 

If you want VW, get Passat wagon. Its made in Germany and its more reliable than Mexican Jetta. If you can afford it, get Audi or BMW wagon or BMW X5 for the same price.

 

J.

The only reason I am considering a Jetta is for the diesel. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug 

 

for years, Subaru Styling was an oxymoron.

 

The only reason I am considering a Jetta is for the diesel. 

It sounds like Audi diesels will be here before your lease is up.

 If the interior space, awd/4wd, and ground clearance are not a concern then the diesel jetta is bulletproof.

Breakdowns are rare, but if you do have a breakdown its expensive. 

I wouldn't hesitate to get a diesel like this in our area, because diesel is readily available, if its readily available in your area, and the area's you travel, then the Jetta is fun and reliable.

Answer the questions in my original line and you have your answer.