Winter Park Ski Train closing for good after 69 years

The economy and other factors have pushed the Winter Park Ski Train over the edge. http://tinyurl.com/cpnypd It's been sold to a Canadian company and won't be operating in Colorado. Kind of sad, I never took it, but it was cool to see it in the morning and then during apres and hear the whistle. The train line is basically why Winter Park is located where it is. Turned out pretty well considering that I doubt they did a real scientific snowfall survey way back to pick the locale.

Yeah, I read about this.  Kinda sad to see a long time icon go by the way side.

I was never in a position to consider taking the ski train but whenever I heard the details it always struck me as rather expensive and constraining.  I have, however, heard plenty of stories from peeps who thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

I was just thinking that it would be cool for Winter Park Resort to put a historic marker/plaque where the Ski Train used to drop off skiers. Even better would have been for them to buy one of the 14 cars and have it on display at the base. It would have been a unique little thing for kids to go through. Too late for that though. I'm going to suggest the historic marker idea though to their PR person. Other regulars at WP on here could do the same. It's just such a part of their history-- literally they wouldn't be where they are now without it.

I got the news about this over two weeks ago.  I wonder why it is only now making the news?

I rode and worked on the Ski Train on some of its last trips this season.  The train was maybe a quarter full on these trips.  Phillip Anschutz  loved that train and subsidized it for many, many years.  I'm sure it was not an easy decision to sell it.  I'm happy he carried on the tradition as long as possible.

I'll miss seeing it in the morning and afternoons at WP too.  Who doesn't smile when they see a train?  The people who worked the train are also a very tight-knit group.  They could really kid one another.  When the California Zephyr speeds by the base, the engineers never honk the train horn.  When the Ski Train pulled up or a UP train goes by, they always honk for the people who wave at them.  Kids & adults love it.

A Ski Train video from a UP crew.  www.viddler.com/explore/moonsplitter/videos/7/

Ski Train RIP

Damn...this was on my list of  "must do's"

Guess the MTB up Moffat road over Rollins Pass with skis strapped on the back is all I've got left.

We were just discussing how cool it would be to have a ski-train express that ran from Denver and airport and then stopped at LL, then Dillon area, Vail, beaver creek and onto Steamboat.  How cool would that be?  Reduction in pollution, traffic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finndog 

We were just discussing how cool it would be to have a ski-train express that ran from Denver and airport and then stopped at LL, then Dillon area, Vail, beaver creek and onto Steamboat.  How cool would that be?  Reduction in pollution, traffic.

Denver politicians have floated that idea before

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finndog 

We were just discussing how cool it would be to have a ski-train express that ran from Denver and airport and then stopped at LL, then Dillon area, Vail, beaver creek and onto Steamboat.  How cool would that be?  Reduction in pollution, traffic.

If a billionaire couldn't make this run, not likely.  The people of Denver already stated that $55.00 was too high a fare (with AAA discount) - and the train lost money on every trip even when it was full.  How much would you be willing to pay for a one-way or round-trip fare?  Probably not enough to make it profitable.  People grumble that CME and other ground transport is too expensive already.  The Zephyr is around $40.00 RT but it gets to Fraser/WP around 10 AM and the east bound goes by around 5-5:30.  It still stops in Fraser and the town bus system will drop you off at Winter Park.

Loveland isn't feasable and has never had track running there.  I believe the tracks to Breckenridge were pulled up in the '30's.  Passenger service to Steamboat stopped in 1964?  The California Zephyr has transfer bus stops at Frisco and Vail already, how many of you currently use them???????  A rail system proposal to the mountains was recently voted on in Colorado.  It was soundly voted down.  People don't want to pay for this system.  We did vote to expand light rail in the Denver Metro area.  Building track in the mountains is very expensive.  That's why many train systems in Colorado were narrow gauge and not standard gauge.

I think Bill Gates is the only one who could make this puppy fly.

How very sad.  It is the end of an era.  We always wanted to take the kids on the train but we just don't get up early enough to make it.  :(  Guess we never will.  I will miss that whistle as well.  The kids ALWAYS wanted to watch the train leave.  :)

Agree with Finndog's sentiments, but think that Daysailer1 is right for the following reasons:

     traffic is really only an issue on weekends or during a storm

     cheaper for frontrangers to take their own car

     might be competitive in price vs CME for tourists BUT would only be convenient for them if the train times matched up with their flight times- much more cost effective to schedule Vans every hour than trains every hour.

     tourists would have to transfer their gear to a taxi or other local transport to get from the train station to their accomodations

Bottom line is that the demand is likley not enough to compensate for the high costs. 

how much would I pay? me, personally, I would be willing to pay 200 r/t. Why? most likely, I wouldn't need a car, I wouldn't have traffic or worry about bad weather driving, no gas and its better for the environment.  I would think if done correctly, it could be a tourist attraction, with dining & Bar cars. I am sure it is very scenic. It was just an idea! I didn't get any further..

Wow - missed my chance too. I tried to do a fly and ride package using the train a few years ago and I could not get to WP or get home the same day traveling on the train. It extended my trip by two days. I like public transportation but it sure takes a lot of population density. We're rally about 60 years too late to make it work in most cities. No matter how hard you try, in a country full of suburbs, good roads and big cars it's hard to fill a train.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finndog 

 It was just an idea! I didn't get any further..

I'm not picking on you Finn.  I'm bummed about this as are the people who lost their train jobs.  Most Front Rangers wouldn't pay what you are willing to.   This kind of train could only run once per day.  Freight traffic on these lines wouldn't allow any more.   There also has to be 15 minutes between trains through the Moffatt Tunnel too.  Some days you will see the coal trains spaced exactly 15 min apart all day.   They need 15 minutes to flush air through the tunnel.

The trip out to Glenwood Springs is very scenic esp. through Glenwood Canyon.  It makes a great weekend trip to the hot springs.

I betcha we'll see a ski train again......

I shudder to think how much gas is going to cost when we do, though!

I'll miss the whistle, too. It would remind me to start gathering kids!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEfree30 

Agree with Finndog's sentiments, but think that Daysailer1 is right for the following reasons:

     traffic is really only an issue on weekends or during a storm

     cheaper for frontrangers to take their own car

     might be competitive in price vs CME for tourists BUT would only be convenient for them if the train times matched up with their flight times- much more cost effective to schedule Vans every hour than trains every hour.

     tourists would have to transfer their gear to a taxi or other local transport to get from the train station to their accomodations

 

Bottom line is that the demand is likley not enough to compensate for the high costs. 

    

"cheaper for frontrangers to take their own car"

Faster too, probably. As long as the "city" is spread out and people need to DRIVE to get to the train station, they might as well drive all the way to the mountain!

"tourists would have to transfer their gear to a taxi or other local transport to get from the train station to their accomodations"

That problem can be easily solved by hotels running a shuttle to pick their guest up at the train station. After all, there's only 1 train to meet. It's not like they need to run to the train station 10 times a day like airport hotels do. If airport hotels do that, why can't WP hotels do the same? I think the answer is the guests don't come by train in the first place, with or without hotel shuttle. But why?

Because the train doesn't go to the airport!!! 

That's the ONLY captive (I mean, car-less) audiens they can cash in on. But without either a airport-train shuttle or some sort of partnership with airport hotels to drop their guest off at the train station the next morning, even those who really want to, can't overcome the difficulty to use it.

A train is great when it can connect TWO popular destination points. WP is one popular destination, but not Denver the city. There're no population around the train station, nor convinient transport to get there from other points in the city. Without the popular SECOND destination (I mean, source), the train can't capitalize on its efficiency. It has no chance in making a profit.

I'm surprised it even ran for so long. So I guess I'm not as surprised when it stopped. Doesn't make it less sad knowing it's inevitable though. :(

I am very sad to hear this.

For 1 person the Ski Train was a decent value. In Saturday morning, out Sunday evening.

But for a family or even a couple the value was just not there.  If the Government were to heavily subsidize something this would have been it.

I just posted on youtube a TV travel feature I did a few years ago about Winter Park. There's some cool vintage footage of the Ski Train in it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Rxemh4e6s

Sounds like some of you need to do a European rail/ski vacation to soothe the soul. Course what you gain in peace and quiet from not having to drive, you lose in liftline-related stress. But hey, that's skiing in the Alps.

There are a lot of ski areas in the Alps with train stations in town, notably in Switzerland, though many of these (Zermatt is one, Crans Montana another) require a change from normal trains to a narrower guage or cog train at some point.

The train station in St Anton, though no longer right in the middle of town, is part of a direct route that runs Zurich/Innsbruck, I think.

The Milky Way resorts (of which Sestriere is the most famous station) in the western Italian Alps are also on a rail line, though I'm not sure there is an actual town sharing a train station and lifts. Pila here in Italy is a good bet by rail, as there's a gondola leaving from the town itself, which has a mainline train.

The French Alps are well served by long-distance trains, though if memory serves me, you generally disembark at a hub like Bourg St Maurice and take buses from there. Chamonix is connected directly by what I remember to be a narrow gauge-type train.

The Swiss railway, of course, will also check your skis and stuff straight through to your final destination, perhaps even from customs at Zurich or Geneva airports. 

Several of the Swiss routes are among the most scenic in the world (Glacier Express, etc.). Many of these pass through ski towns like St Moritz, Davos, Andermatt, etc.

But ultimately, more people drive to ski than go by train...