PJ & Marcus commit to getting in shape for 2009/2010

 Hey Marcus I was wondering how the namesakes of this thread were doing!  Good job!

 I used to weigh about 205, so I was pretty stoked when I weighed myself at 187 Thursday. The chart on the wall next to the scale (a nice one with the little weights you have to move) says that's a healthy weight for my height. 

Lots of beer and corn based snack foods. I think most of the lost weight was muscle. Goal: to fit in my neon green CB pants by retro day. 

Lost 15 since April. Just from biking a lot and eating food fresh from the garden. Feel pretty good right now.

just a reminder ,Corn is one of those evil grains.

Of coarse so is beer but we need to choose our battles

I did 22 miles on a bike ride in Ohiopyle.  What a great bike ride.  It was mainly flat but it was a great easy ride!!  :)

Corn on the cob is a great source of carbohydrates.   I will not cut that out of my diet until I see some evidence to the contrary.   Most of your info has been great loboskis, so can you back that claim up?

(now corn flour is another story of course.)
 

Not a good source of carbohydrate.   Too starchy, like potato and rice - it's out.  It can be a treat, but it is not a good choice for an athlete's diet.

 So what do you suggest for carbohydrates then?  Not much in most vegetables, that just leaves fruit.

I still contest the blanket statements about "starchy" foods.   What does that mean?  There's a lot of information out there - but not a lot of science behind it.

Glycemic index - no data to show it has any meaning except in a test tube.
Potatoes - some believe they're a perfect carb, others down on them.

I just don't buy into all the "theories" until I see some data, and believe me I look hard for the data.  
loboskis provided a great article with good data about grains.  I've read other things that say that finely ground foods get absorbed into the body more then whole foods.  So I can see corn flour in the same light.   Corn on the other hand has a lot of fiber and complex carbs.  Where's the bad in that?

Again, what does "starchy" mean?  

 OK, well I just found some good info about "starchy" foods.  Link below.  Beans are starchy foods too.  Do you avoid beans?  I like this piece because again it talks about how quickly the starches are absorbed, grains quick, corn, beans, potatoes slow.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nutrition/a/starch.htm

I am avoiding potatoes and eating sweet potatoes, but don't really know if it's necessary.  Bill Phillips (Body For Life) loves potatoes.  I lost 18lbs in 12 weeks (and gained muscle) on that plan once, and ate baked potatoes regularly. 

Sorry it's just my tendency to reject dogma.   

Paul, what are you basing your statements on?  Things you've been told?  Things you've seen hard data on?  Personal experience?  

No beans, I am not eating beans.

Why no beans?  From AlbanyCrossfit:

"For 2.5 million years, our genes adapted to a diet based on foods only available through hunting, fishing, or being gathered from nature. Even today, the human genome has changed less than 0.02 percent in these last 10,000 years. As much as 70% of what people eat, however, differs from the diet that evolution built into the human genome. Continuously consuming food that is not in sync with our genetic needs leads to health conditions that are largely preventable.

In general, most legumes are concentrated sources of both lectins and saponins. These toxic compounds serve to prevent predation by insects, fungi, bacteria and other organisms. The problem that saponins present for people is that saponins bind cholesterol in the gut membrane to create pores in the gut (intestinal permeability). While most dietary lectins are not toxic to humans, legumes and grains are the primary exceptions because legume and grain lectins can bind to gut tissue. While the entry of dietary lectins into peripheral circulation has been sparsely examined, is quite likely that all lectins capable of binding gut epithelial tissue can also enter into lymph/circulation.

Intestinal permeability allows toxins and bacteria, from which the body needs to be protected, to breach the gut barrier and gain chronic access to the immune system. This abnormal situation may stimulate the confused response seen in autoimmune diseases when the body's immune system indiscriminately attacks healthy tissues and organs. It appears that the immune system has lost the ability to distinguish between the body and foreign invaders, such as microbe or food antigens. Approximately 33% of autoimmune diseases present with a leaky gut, and most autoimmune diseases have yet to be tested."

Paleo Diet Update, Issue #2009-26/June

 

the paleo diet produced a life expectancy of 27 

SMJ, here is the diet that we have been following at AlbanyCrossfit.  The results have been phenomenal.  We conducted an eight week Paleo Challenge.  No specific outcome was sought.  The objective was to use the diet as a group to see what results might be noticed.  Everyone did very well but there was a wide scope of adherence to the diet.  You can be strict or not so.  Cheating is the norm, at various levels.  Some will cheat once a week, while others may still use salt or put milk in their coffee.

I lost 17 lbs and I was not trying to lose any weight.  My ability to train improved substantially.  One of the guys was a bean pole and he gained 15 lbs. - muscle.  The women gained six packs and trimmed thickness.  Overall, performance improved.  This was quite a "challenge" and it was a lot of fun to be a part of.  We would hang out after the workout and share knowledge and experience.  In the beginning no one really knew what they were doing.  At the end we had a party with decadent foods and drinks to celebrate.

Phase II is underway now.  It's objective is performance.

Here's the link to the Paleo Diet.  There is a book which we use now (my wife is doing this diet now with me

http://www.thepaleodiet.com/faqs/

One of the arguments, actually 23.

 I've read all about the paleo diet, and no disrespect intended Paul, because I know that Crossfit certainly works - but.

Oh what the hell, I'm not going to mince my words.  Seems like a bunch of hooey to me.  What are the credentials of the people who came up with these theories?  What's the science with studies and data behind it?  I've read a LOT of stuff recently by a LOT of people who state in NO uncertain terms all kinds of things.  What sequence food should be eaten in.  Cycling on and off of different diets.  All stated with the same certainty that the paleo diet literature states.

I'm just skeptical.

Good healthy food.  Whole foods.  Plenty of low fat protein.  Mono unsaturaed fats.  As to losing weight.  Calories in Calories out.

If you eat like people did a thousand years ago would our average lifespan then be around 40 years like it was then?

And I totally disagree that in 2.5 million years that our bodies have not changed and adapted.

To me it's all just someone selling a bill of goods.  Kind of reminds me of PMTS actually.

Sorry.  I know you're in great shape.  I actually don't say that it wouldn't work, or maybe even be very effective and healthy.

I just don't buy that it's the WAY.  The only way.  Right vs. wrong.  Good vs. bad.  ("Too starchy, like potato and rice - it's out")   

dogma |ˈdôgmə|noun a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

I do understand what your are saying -  "another diet book".  I think it's valid to be cautious.  But it' simple.  Eat nuts and berries, fruits and vegetables, lean meats, fish and seafood.  Doesn't seem too bad, really.  Omit grains, dairy and legumes.  Apply this concept to your diet at a level that you find appropriate.

As far as longevity, what would cause one to not live a long life by eating these foods.  And more importantly, quality of life - what we eat now is not conducive to healthy lifestyles.

One aspect of the diet and understanding the thinking behind it:  SyndromX diseases.  That is worth reading.

I am not going to tell you that I know all about this stuff, I don't.  But it's got my attention and I am giving it a try.  I'd say I am following a Level II Paleo Diet.  It has been nearly 3 months and it's pretty cool.

 Hey Paul, I agree with what you're saying.  That diet sounds very healthy, and you're right that there's nothing about it that would sacrifice longevity.

I guess my main gripe is eliminating beans, which so many experts say are very good for you, and some whole vegetables like corn and potatoes.  If there's anything in the diet you describe that might be missing, it's fiber - but I imagine you can certainly find that within the foods you list.

I just bristle at statements saying that there is only one way to heaven, whether it be in religion, ski technique or diet.

Since April I've been using my body as a test tube for 8-12 week cycles.  I've gained a lot of muscle and lost a lot of fat - and found that different things work.  

One thing that I've been eating fairly consistently is low fat cottage cheese.  Great source of protein, and makes for a very tasty and easy meal.  With cut up fruit or cut up vegetables.  Once I stopped eating oatmeal (with whey powder) every morning (thanks to loboski's link) I needed something for breakfast that combined protein and carbs.

All carbs come from fruits and veggie.  You can eat unlimited fruits and veggies with more emphasis on veggies.  I eat lots of fruit and not enough veggie.  There is a ton of fiber in this diet.

This is not a low carb diet.  Carbs are reduced.  I eat two meat or fish entrees for dinner with hopefully 2 or 3 veggies.  I eat a lot on this diet - no restriction (for me) and I still lost 17 lbs.  Lots of olive oil, some nuts, had been eating berries - now grapes.  Big salad for lunch sloppy with olive oil.  Fish or meat on the salad.

I take fish oil.

The diet is devoid of Vit D.  So I go outside.

 I'd eat vegetables, fruit, whole grains and beans, if I took control of my diet. I don't eat right. I shouldn't be posting in this thread, but maybe doing so will motivate me to cut back on the junk food. 

 telerod, you must be a lot younger then me, once we get over 40 or so (well actually I'm over 30 - way over) we either get fat or we do something about it.  

Motivation for me is easy to find, just looking in the mirror a year ago was plenty of motivation, not to mention fear of heart disease.

 I'm 53. Going to work everyday has been the change that caused my weight loss. I work hard.

 Well good for you, 4 years younger then me!  

I guess your motivation won't be weight loss then.

Just watch out for those trans fats and sat fats though, skinny and bypass surgery still would suck!

I thought you were younger than me. I have been inspired to take better care of myself from reading your posts, but I'm not up for the whole training program, though I'm sure it would be beneficial. 

I'm all for a low fat diet, trans or sat or otherwise, but I eat pizza, burger, greasy chinese often for lunch. I should pack a lunch and I have more frequently lately, but much more often than not buying cheap fast fuel...

I train during the off season, no time for it during ski season.  And I fall off the wagon a lot too. 

I pack lunch a lot, usually cook up a bunch of chicken breasts on the weekends and slice it up, then can make a quick lunch easy, chop up the chicken, chop up some onion, carrots, add some crushed red pepper and olive oil, then nuke it at work.

But when I'm too lazy (often) I have found that even the pizza parlor has a nice salad with grilled chicken that I eat a lot.

I love pizza.  I love greasy foot (edit I mean FOOD - I HATE greasy foot!.)  General Gau's chicken - mm mm mm.  Deep fried dark meat.

But I just love my life too, and sometimes just have to remind myself that there are more important things then the pleasure of fat and sugar!  I've known about 14 people in my life that I was somewhat close to who've died.  Not all from heart disease, but I'm just becoming a pretty good skier and want to do it for another 20 years.

 Don't think you can eat Gao chicken just because you work out. You are a lot older than me and lead a more sedentary lifestyle. Don't eat that greasy shit old man. Haha, just kidding, but hoping you don't look at my bad example for an excuse to eat junk. I've had nasty cancerous tissues removed from my colon, not just typical polyps. You don't want to end up like me, take care of yourself.

 Thanks trod.  Sedentary, me?  You mean because I drive an hour and a half each way to work, then sit at a computer all day?  Then when I come home I sit with my laptop?  Hey I only go into work 3 days.  The other two days I sit at home and work on my laptop.

Hold on, have to go to the kitchen for some ice cream!

Actually I just did have a snack, radishes and cucumbers.  Radishes are an awesome snack food, spicy, crunchy, refreshing!

Sorry about your colon, I've had two colonoscopies so far, but only benign polyps!

Take care of YOUR self youngster!

I'm back, had to put down a revolt in the kitchen.  Maureen wants potato.

 Potato skins are high in potassium. Give the middle part to the poor.

Just finished the Buff and topped my goal with a ride time of 5:20.  Report here  #11

Mike

Congrats, Mike--and great to run into you after the ride yesterday.

I can hardly wait to see you on snow now!

Best regards,
Bob

Well, the cycling season will start to wind down, but that means the skiing season is around the corner.

694 miles for September, 4113 miles YTD.

I made so many changes to the bike that only the frame set, stem, seatpost, brakes and brifters remain from what was new on the bike a year ago;



Bike fit issues determined one set of changes, long distance performance needs prompted other changes. As my monthly mileage increased to 500 plus; the seat, handlebar and pedals began to exspose discomfort issues. Look Keo pedals and road shoes eliminated hot spots on both feet. A 35 year old Brooks saddle reduces seat discomfort and FSA compact handle bars improved hand comfort while on the hoods and made the drops more accessible. I have zero rider discomfort, even after 8 hours.

Drivetrain changes were made mostly to experiment, I could ride a single-speed given the mostly flat riding here. A Cyclocross 46 & 38t double worked fine, but I rarely used the 38t chainring. I installed a 44t single chainring and used that for 4000 miles with a 12-27 10 speed cassette. This set-up forced me to attack every hill out of fear of walking. The range also required a rapid cadence at higher speeds. It was a good training drivetrain. I put a 50, 39 & 30t triple crankset on the bike this month. My plan is to ride more hilly Century rides next year. I use the 39t chainring 90% of the time and only need the 50t above 27 mph. The 30t chainring is not needed, but will be used as a convenience a few times a month.

32 spoke Mavic Open Pro wheels with Shimano 105 hubs save significant weight over the CPX 22 Mavic wheels that were first on the bike.

My target is 5000 miles this year. I'm new to long Distance riding, my longest event was 127 miles this summer. I now have a "base" for next year. I'm planning on working with a trainer in 2010.

Michael