opinion of powder novices at esa big sky

Following the diary threads I was wondering how the powder novices made out in what looks like really formidable snowfall amounts!!!!..from past history I know it can be a struggle...thanks.

I can't speak for everyone, but I can say from my experience, this was an ideal situation because we had top notch coaches to teach us how to ski powder.

At ESA Stowe 2007 we encountered 18"+ powder, which was when I got my first taste.

This week at Big Sky was just a cherry on the sundae of powder skiing skillz building.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weems 

 

I had the "true" powder novices:  those who had never touched it.

 

It was beautiful, because each night the area groomed quite a few of the blue and green runs, and then they would receive about 3-6 inches of fluff.  So the beginners got a chance to feel powder without also having to make huge commitments to steep, bumpy terrain with deep snow on it.

 

It was so much fun to watch them feel the delight of powder without having to bust their butts to earn it.  And we took a few incremental forays into heavier stuff.  Just enough to challenge, but not enough to disappoint.

 

It really worked.

      Sounds like fun.  One of these days I hope to make it to an ESA. 
 

IMHO, you would not be disappointed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by weems 

 

I had the "true" powder novices:  those who had never touched it.

 

It was beautiful, because each night the area groomed quite a few of the blue and green runs, and then they would receive about 3-6 inches of fluff.  So the beginners got a chance to feel powder without also having to make huge commitments to steep, bumpy terrain with deep snow on it.

 

It was so much fun to watch them feel the delight of powder without having to bust their butts to earn it.  And we took a few incremental forays into heavier stuff.  Just enough to challenge, but not enough to disappoint.

 

It really worked.

Powder over a groomer is really sweet for newbies, and can be a great confidence builder.  Heck, I like it myself!  

So I am curious, out of the general field at ESA, how many were totally new to powder, and what skill level are we talking about -- intermediate or so?

It was awesome. I had a group with very little experience in powder, but a lot of enthusiasm to learn it.

Instructors are notorious for saying things like, "just find a nice slope with 3"-6" of fresh powder on top of corduroy" for the first powder skiing experience. Now, how are you gonna do that? 

Well, we did it at Big Sky. The gentle runs of Andesite Mountain were groomed every night, and then received that perfect 3"-6" after the grooming, just as Weems said. We took advantage of those perfect conditions to find our rhythm and savor the sensations of real powder, before venturing into the more challenging terrain and conditions of the upper mountain. We thrived!

Best regards,

Bob

Skier219--participants at this year's Big Sky ESA ranged from lower intermediate to very advanced, some with limited-to-no prior powder snow experience, some with lots.

Best regards,

Bob

Well I was one of the Powder Virgins! At first I didn't like it because I didn't know the proper technique but once my coach explained the technique and the Triangel of course!!! I started to like it. You see I am from Louisiana so we can't just go to the slopes when the ski resorts get dumped on. We have to plan and wait for a long time and and if we are real lucky we get some snow a week or two before we go. This was truly an awsome experience and some of the best training I have ever received.

Bob, Weems I truly enjoyed learning and working under you guys yall take Skiing to the next level but I am sorry to tell ya I 'll have your job here real soon just thought I ought to let ya know  . NA seriously You guys are Good!!! 

If you are debating on Epic and you want to take your Skiing to the next level Don't think about it anymore EPIC is the palce for you !!!!       

I am an advanced skier with limited experience with powder.  Prior to ESA Big Sky I have been able to ski powder successfully, but only at great energy cost.  In other words I was not comfortable with powder and had not made my peace with it.  Under the tutelage of Squatty I was absolutely ripping it up by day four of ESA.  Something just clicked!  I don't think that this would have happened without having had powder to ski every day and of course, world class coaching.

The conditions for learning to ski powder were ideal.  On the lower mountain there was 3-6" of fresh over a groomed, consistent surface.  This was good for getting a feel for the resistance of skiing through powder while still being able to manuever using hard snow technique.  Then there were ungroomed blue runs with deeper powder.  Further up on the mountain there were areas of heavy powder over crust or bumps.  Off the top of Lone Peak there was thigh deep, moderately light, consistent powder.  With fresh powder every night and all the different varieties of consistency and water content, Big Sky was a perfect classroom in which to learn how to ski it.  The coaches would start us out in fairly easy to ski powder then gradually rachet up the difficulty by using a different part of the mountain. Fantastic!

Before coming to ESA I had attempted to ski powder many times.   Mostly, it involved me either falling immediately and then having to dig out my skis, or being completely exhausted at the end of the run.

Thanks to the excellent coaching from Bob Barnes, and the wonderfully powder we were blessed with each day, I can say that I now feel comfortable skiing powder runs.

Closing day at my local ski hill was yesterday, and I surprised myself by skiing smoothly, and nearly effortlessly on a slope that had made me nervous and skiing defensively earlier in the season.  The conditions were pretty nice too - by the time we got back up the lift, our tracks were nearly covered due to the fact it was just dumping snow.

I have to say, it's great hearing about these experiences firsthand.  So does anyone recall an "aha" moment or concept or suggestion that made it all click into place?  What was a key breakthrough for you? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by skier219 

 

I have to say, it's great hearing about these experiences firsthand.  So does anyone recall an "aha" moment or concept or suggestion that made it all click into place?  What was a key breakthrough for you? 

After a very, very crappy day on Wednesday, nothing seemed to work well.  Turns were ugly,  legs burnin' from fighting the runs, energy level sucked, tentative skiing at best.  However, Thursday was a much, much better day, good karma going, same powder conditions, many runs the same as yesterday!  Tireless skiing, turns working well, relaxed upper body..most everything Weems worked on came to fruition.  I finally sifted out of "4 wheel drive" letting the skis run and turn.  A big thank ya Weems!  Exhilarating to say the least.....EEEEEha! 

Ragin Too much information!!!

skier219 a aha moment, yes when Bob had us do a clock drill I felt my legs really separate from my body. 

Maybe because with the clock drill you have to ski down the mountain with your arms straight out and the only thing you move is your lower body not very easy and you cannot turn your upper body any.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW Skier 

 

Ragin Too much information!!!

 

 

 

skier219 a aha moment, yes when Bob had us do a clock drill I felt my legs really separate from my body. 

Maybe because with the clock drill you have to ski down the mountain with your arms straight out and the only thing you move is your lower body not very easy and you cannot turn your upper body any.  

Hey Roomy, how's it cookin'!!!!!!

Best room mate ya can ask for!   Ready to go back?   I think we need to bring up a few more of our bubba friends next year to help instill our southern "hospitality"!  (we gonna need those hay bails at the end of the runs).   Imagine what they gonna do to those elk herds we saw on the the way back......

I had such an awesome time a Big Sky ESA.  It was tons of fun.  I had never touched powder before his, and now I am addicted.  I may have to refinance things or picjk a different profession to try and get more powder.  Bob Barnes was great and he helped me so much with my skiing.  I had one absolutely miserable run down the lone star bowl and felt frustrated, I did it again and Bob gave me some suggestions and I was able to do it and felt completely liberated.  Thank you so much.

I do like GW skiers sports triangle though. 

ESA gave me a lot more confidence in my skiing and my ability o ski steeper slopes.

I am in VT at Killingon until 4/8, and skied down superstar and didn't stop, I even dove and had faith. And let myself in the fall line for a lot longer than I normally did before ESA.

I actually think that my epiphany was a culmination of the 4 days.  That being said, on the last day my group was skiing Liberty Bowl in poor visibility conditions.  I was making pretty good powder turns with a good rhythm, but felt like I was fighting the snow.  At our regroup Squatty introduced the concept of hesitating a moment in the fall line then relaxing your legs and feet, allowing the snow to push your skis up and letting your momentum carry you  into the next turn.  I focused on that and everything seemed so effortless!!!  After that I was just ripping it up for the rest of the day.  Ask Trekchick.  She was there.  It was like the FORCE was with me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragin' cajun' 

 

 

 

Hey Roomy, how's it cookin'!!!!!!

 

Best room mate ya can ask for!   Ready to go back?   I think we need to bring up a few more of our bubba friends next year to help instill our southern "hospitality"!  (we gonna need those hay bails at the end of the runs).   Imagine what they gonna do to those elk herds we saw on the the way back......

You too man I had a great time yep need to gather up a few buds for next year. I will definitly be back. 

Yep we will have to keep em under control on the huntin scene on the way to the mountain!!!! 
 

Reality is you can't be guaranteed powder like this year's ESA Big Sky got.  I've been in SW Montana 9 winters.  3 of those winters (including this year) the last week of March had powder everyday at Big Sky.  It might not have snowed everyday but because it takes so long to ski the mountain out along with the nightly refreshing of the powder by the cold temperatures & winds you had fresh tracks each day.  4 of the winters the end of March had a couple decent dumps during the week so you had some fresh tracks and soft snow all the time.  2 of the winters there wasn't any new snow at the end of March.  Even if there isn't any powder Big Sky has an enormous variety of terrain and snow conditions for working on skiing steeper terrain, moguls and off-piste snow conditions.

I could never ski powder well and hated it. Weems taught us two important techniques that opened the door for me. First was how to stop in powder up to my knees. That was a confidence-builder. Then he explained about standing up straight & tall (but still focused across the skis and down the hill, of course) in-between the turns. That was very stabilizing and reduced the leg fatigue considerably. It also works well on a nasty, uneven traverse.

Thanks Weems! And nice work my intermediate skiing (but not much longer!) friends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skier219 

I have to say, it's great hearing about these experiences firsthand.  So does anyone recall an "aha" moment or concept or suggestion that made it all click into place?  What was a key breakthrough for you? 

 It is probably not accurate or fair to pick out just one thing.  However if I had to just say one thing it would be swing your poles.  When previously skiing powder (and having a lot of troiuble doing so) I would keep trying to get out of the back seat. Squatty spent some time with us on how and why it is important to swing your poles, not plant them but to swing them.  What happened when I actively did this was it gave me movement and rythmn and got me out of being static and in the back seat.  As I skied powder all week this worked very well as my cure for my back seat static position of my ARSE.  We learned a lot more that of course complimented this but if I Had to pick one thing this would be it.

Tommorrow I will try to find time to post what I learned.

My Moment would have to be Skiing down Liberty Bowl the 2nd time, in ther Fall Line, linking about 20 turns and doing it with a big smile on my face.,  This bowl:

Curious, was anyone skiing on relatively narrow waisted skis (<76mm) during this powder binge? Was there any discussion about tackling the snow with different widths, or was that mostly a non-issue with respect to the instruction provided?

Lou skied day three on a pair of vist slalom skis that must have been 68 or less.  And that was in deep untracked powder. 

Hi Jamesj--

Both I and one of the participants in my group skied the Hart Pulse, which is 77 underfoot. They worked supremely well for me in all conditions, although I would have preferred a little more length (not necessarily width) on the first day, when heavier, unpredictable windblown snow over bumps created fore-aft challenges that did send me over the handlebars once. Wider skis would also have been fun in some of the conditions, but in my opinion, it would not necessarily have been more fun.

Bud Heishman skied a variety of skis during the week, including a very wide ski one day, followed by Lou's 66mm Vist carving ski (basically the same ski as the Hart Phoenix) the next day. He'll probably pipe in here himself, but I was intrigued by his enthusiastic observations that he actually enjoyed the 66mm ski more in the deepest powder. He noted its tendency to bend, slice, and rebound more than the fat skis, which tend to just float on or in the snow. I agree--different skis produced different sensations in powder. Narrower skis are more challenging and less forgiving than fat skis in powder, but they have a livelier feel that can be lots of fun. Great skiers like Bud can ski and enjoy any of them, but it's really about the sensations. "Variety is the spice...."

As for me, my 77mm Pulses were the perfect compromise for all conditions, carving like race skis on the groomed snow and shallow powder, handling quick and lively in the bumps, and floating more than enough in the deep stuff.

Best regards,

Bob

Those were the 66mm waist carving skis I referred to in my previous post. They aren't quite race slaloms (a little softer), and at 174cm, they are 10 cm or so longer than a standard slalom. But they certainly aren't what most people would call "powder skis" these days.

We'll get the video of that awesome "deep untracked powder"--including your sustained "snowblower" face shots--up soon, Mike. I submit that it will be difficult, at least, to tell who was on fatty's and who was on skinny's.

And I guarantee that it will be impossible to find anyone who wasn't having a blast!

Best regards,

Bob

There were several folks on Hart Beats or Pulses that are 77 underfoot, and did quite well.

I'm sure there were others that I'm not aware of, but most of what I noticed were midfats or wider.

 As usual, Cgeib and Bob Barnes (not novices) skied on some freakishly skinny skis.

Edit: my post is redundant after Bob's account of skis and the fun factor

Well, TC--I wouldn't call 77mm "freakishly skinny," but they certainly were narrower than what a lot of people skied on up there.

Like I said, I would have enjoyed skiing on a bigger ski too--and if I'd had a caddy along, I might have pulled out a pair of hucking planks a time or two, just for fun. But for all conditions and all needs, I couldn't have chosen a better ski for myself.

Cgeib will speak for himself, but I believe he spent most of the week on an 84mm Nordica Hot Rod, with at least one day on a 74mm version of the same.

Best regards,

Bob

I skied the first couple days on my fatter twin tips then switch the the '09 Elan Speed Wave 14's in a 176 which are a slalomy cut with a 123 -72- 103 sidecut.  To my surprise, I loved these skis in the powder and stayed on them the remainder of the camp! 

Ah--I thought you had skied Lou's Vists, Bud. Guess not--but same idea!

Best,

Bob