South America 2009 season

Hi,

Since North America and Europe ski season are comming up for the end... What about your feelings for the 2009 on the other side of the globe, in South America???????

Epic pow every night and bluebird skies the day... everyday.

Like where? What about New Zealand?

I had the opportunity to ski both South America and New Zeland, and although I went to New Zeland in a bad snow year, I'd say that the skiing in South America is Better.

- Bigger mountains

- reliable snow (not in El Nino years)

- More vertical

-Portillo and Valle Nevado (Chile) and Las Lenas (Argentina) are very High and get dry snow, always above treeline.

 Portillo has only one Hotel, and great off-piste.

 Valle Nevado is connected with La Parva and El Colorado, making it a very big area.

Going southern you will find one of the best places in South America IMO: Chillan.

The lifts are slow, but they usually get the most snow in the Andes.

If you go even more southern you will find Pucon, Bariloche, Chapelco... but the weather there is more unstable (may rain)  and it's not as High as the places above.

Bariloche is big but gets crowded.

Pucon and Chapelco are small but if conditions are good, can be nice.

I'd plan a 2 weeks trip, fly to Santiago and ski Portillo and a couple days in Valle Nevado for the first week or ten days. and if conditions are good, go south for the last week.

Usually early-mid August is the best bet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theconz 

 

Like where? What about New Zealand?

South America

Hi Thiago!

Unfortunately I don't know about Zeeland... Yet!!!!!

But, talking about S. America, my knowledge is about Bariloche and can't agree more. Very instable weather and very crowd. Wen you get a good week the consditions can be extremely good and you will find a mountain full of good groomed and not groomed pistes. but if not... sucks!!!

My bet is: the perfect time is late August, early September. Otherway crowd. very crowd!!!!!

But, What you ladies nad gentlemans think will be the next season???

Hi edlam!

Definitively late August / September is much less crowded than july...

I just think that chances for fresh smow are higher in early August, and the sun is still not as strong as it is in September (in places like Valle Nevado it may count...)

Anyway, I hope we don't get a strong El Nino this year, and I hope to have enough money and time for a ski scape!

cheers!

If anyone is interested in lodging in and around Bariloche, check out our properties at www.BarilocheVacationRental.com 

Soulskier:

I will definetively keep it(www.BarilocheVacationRental.com) at my "wish list"

Thiago:

As you said...

And I do really "...hope we don't get a strong El Nino this year, I hope to have enough money (too) and time for a ski scape!"

Hey duds we need to find a cheaper way to allow us of continue doing this vicious sport!!!!!!!

Cheers~

You have that backwards.  El Nino is good for South America, La Nina is bad.  To clarify that's for the fairly extensive data I have for Portillo and Las Lenas (and by implication Valle Nevado between them).  Those are at similar latitudes to San Diego and Flagstaff AZ, which are also srongly favored for winter precipitation by El Nino.  It is possible that the effect is different farther south in South America.

So I've booked a week at Bariloche in mid-August - yes, I know less extreme/exciting terrain than Las Lenas - but significantly less expensive (in every dimension), less of a hassle to get there, apparently greater reliability of open mountain/better runs, and a neat town to fill out-side of skiing activities.

Any have a view of what sort of skis to bring down there (ie - what sort of snow/conditions to expect?).

Thanks.

ASL would you mind giving me some idea of what the week is costing you?  

1 bedroom, newly constructed apartment in BRC is US$800 for a full week (Saturday-Saturday). Flights JFK-EZE/AEP-BRC and then BRC-AEP a week later, and finally EZE-JFK a few days later was ~$1500/ticket in coach. I could have done cheaper a few hundred dollars cheaper but I wanted a specific fare basis so I can upgrade and I didn't want to split the US/Argentina flights from the intra-argentina flights into two seperate tickets. I also could have scored a cheaper fare with a more complicated routing/different airline.

Truthfully, I don't really know what lift tickets cost. I've heard that they are less than Las Lenas.

Accommodation expense at Las Lenas was outrageous. Crappy crappy crappy looking apartments  started at around $1200, hotel weeks started around $1800/person (and you needed 2 people), flights into the area were $600-$700/person, apparently limited food options in Las Lenas, and nothing to do if the mountain (or Marte) is shut.

This is our first south american trip and we viewed the trade-off of extreme terrain and allegedly better snow (Lenas) to cost, town culture and increased mountain reliability (Bariloche) as very favorable.

Thanks for the info! 

ASL, we tend to get warmer snow than the big Andes, so I would bring fatter skis. Sorry to hear you decided to stay in the city center, be sure to come out towards Llao Llao and the Circuito Chico, that is what Patagonia is all about. Suerte! 

Hi ASL!!

Take a look at http://www.escuelamountain.com/. You'll find prices for equipment rentals.

Also look at: http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/72602/bariloche-last-week and see the last September first week. Man that was amazing!! lots of snow few days before our arriving there.

Some prices (US$) from 2008 season:

One week - mid season
Ski set(top) U$126.00/week -  18/day
Lift U$220.00/week  - 32/day

Good information: http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/69818/south-america-best-way-to-plan-best-place-to-go/0

Cheers

Eduardo

Having only skied in Europe and Eastern and Western US, and knowing little about South America, how does it compare? I just know that they follow the piste/off piste standards like Europe and also like Europe, they tend to have a lower tree line. What else is different/more of the same?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Crocker 

You have that backwards.  El Nino is good for South America, La Nina is bad.  To clarify that's for the fairly extensive data I have for Portillo and Las Lenas (and by implication Valle Nevado between them).  Those are at similar latitudes to San Diego and Flagstaff AZ, which are also srongly favored for winter precipitation by El Nino.  It is possible that the effect is different farther south in South America.

I'm not sure about it being backwards...

I mean, I am not a weather man but I think latitude is not the only factor to look at, when we are talking about El Nino / La Nina.

Maybe it's because the currents are diferent in Northen and Southern hemisphere, but strong El Nino years tends to be bad snow years.

1998 was awful in South America and New Zeland, and was one of the strongest El Ninos we had lately.

But I may be wrong... Any weather specialist?

¡Nunce se sabe en Argentina! 

Here is a page I put together with lots of weather links. http://livinginpatagonia.com/?page_id=122 

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiking4 

Having only skied in Europe and Eastern and Western US, and knowing little about South America, how does it compare? I just know that they follow the piste/off piste standards like Europe and also like Europe, they tend to have a lower tree line. What else is different/more of the same?

Hello Skiking!

Let me say some words for you! But, keep in mind that I have a very specific knowledge on Europe and EUA/Can.

I'm a itermediate skier, maybe(an optmistic) level 5 to 6.

My Europe experience was at Stubai, Au.

Fantastic place, huge and chalenging. Last Feb/2008 with a lots os good powder snow. Despite the skies I've used there was not so good and makes me feeel a bit unsecure.  I did run the whole mountain's pistes, also the "Grub'in" piste/off-piste top-to-bottom 14Km long - Amazing!

Was at Tremblant and did skied the black ones with no problems the double diamond were closed at that time. but I really think I'm not able to do it.

South America, for me is about Bariloche. And, I'd say to you that the main differences in the ski experience are:

1) You will be noticed that they not make snows as North do. Conditions can change quikly and the ski experience can get worse quickly as well;

2) The lifts shoud be very slow and you can spend several minutes at long lines at over the days, even on mid season;

3) You'll begin on a green and sudenly running out on a black with no signs or ads;

4) No... No trees!!! You'll just find trees (of pistes) with fantastic conditions - cos the best place is about the upper side and the trees stay at the lower side(less snow);

5) It's very commom to see very wide pistes in USA, Can. and Europe;

Cheers,

I analyzed El Nino in extensive detail here: http://webpages.charter.net/tcrocker818/El_Nino.htm

We remember the El Nino/La Nina seasons by when they occurred in North America.  1997-98 was the big El Nino here, but it started in May 1997 at the beginning of the southern ski season.  498 inches at Portillo in 1997.  El Nino monthly history here: http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/people/klaus.wolter/MEI/table.html

The strong El Nino lasted a year, then dissipated over just a few months, turning negative in July 1998.  I can't place primary blame the horrendous 1998 South America season on La Nina, as it was only mild during the southern winter, but the big El Nino was history by the time that season got going.  Up here we remember that La Nina strengthening by November 1998 and contributing to the epic 1998-99 PNW season and the Mt. Baker world snowfall record.

I've skied South America twice, and regulars will tell you to be aware of the TISA factor (you're lucky if key lifts are just slow and not closed).  You will probably have to put up with more aggravation than you would expect here in order to score a few memorable experiences.

Great Work!

Thanks!

BTW, sorry for my ignorance but, what TISA factor means?

Regards

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Crocker 

 

I've skied South America twice, and regulars will tell you to be aware of the TISA factor (you're lucky if key lifts are just slow and not closed).  You will probably have to put up with more aggravation than you would expect here in order to score a few memorable experiences.

 

 

So you're saying that the lifts are closed very often? Well... that sucks! At least you get to SKI even if you're on a puny glacier in Europe.

Feel free to check out our blog during the winter months, www.LivingInPatagonia.com. We update with ski conditions on a regular basis.  

This Is South America.

Exhibit A is the famed Marte lift at Las Lenas.  Part of it was buried during the week before I was there in 2005.  They didn't even start working on it for a week after the storm.  We had 3 bluebird days midweek; it took the first 2 of those to excavate Marte, so we got one day out of the week with good weather and Marte open.  Nonetheless I would go back sometime as the terrain is spectacular and the potential for either powder or corn impressive.

Anywhere in South America: Weather forecasts are less reliable.  With most skiing above tree line total shutdowns during big storms are to be expected.  Opening of lifts after storms will almost certainly be delayed more than here.  Most places you're stuck in a remote resort with little to do on down days (vs. New Zealand for example).  Bariloche is perhaps the exception to that generalization, but its snow (Alta Patagonia) is very unreliable.  By their own admission it averages 240 inches at the top but only 60 at the bottom.  It also faces east and gets a fair amount of rain due to low altitude; do not expect the lowest 1/3 of the mountain to be skiable very often. 

My friend Patrick went to Bariloche last season.  From his reports the skiing sounded much better at Cerro Bayo and La Hoya.  It actually increased my interest in going there sometime with the multiple ski options.

I went to Chile in 2007 and wrote a feature article:  http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4686

I can chime in on this. I spent two full seasons at Las Leñas, 2005 and 2006. Marte chair was only open 25% of the time during those two seasons. Last season was better and Marte was open around 60% of the time according to reports.

Regarding Bariloche (Cerro Catedral), 2007 was a big season and there was skiing top to bottom for the whole season, except for the last week, when you have to download.

Cerro Bayo and La Hoya are both really cool little areas with a lot less of a scene and easy access to good backcountry skiing. 

Suerte!

Nice information and nice links too.

So, is El Nino favourable for northen Andes (Las Lenas, Valle Nevado, Portillo...) and also for southern Andes (Catedral, Chapelco, Pucon...)???

What about Chillan, in the "Central" Andes?

Do you think this is going to be a good snow season?

Thanks!

Yes, the 5 strongest El Nino seasons produced (in order of El Nino strength) 498, 257, 367, 738 (record year in 1972) and 248 inches at Portillo vs. 38-year average of 254. Not a guarantee, but 2 huge seasons out of 5 and no bad ones is a pretty strong bias, comparable to what we see here in SoCal.

Sorry, no data for those.  I would really like to get some, particularly for Chillan.  If it mirrors North America I'd expect Chillan to be neutral and the southern places to be favored by La Nina.  The big 2007 season at the southern places was slightly negative, but not quite at the threshold that I would classify it as La Nina.

The FEB/MAR MEI value was still firmly in La Nina territory.  MAR/APR will be available next week.  This is the time of year when El Nino/La Nina is most likely to change.  Last year it moved from strong La Nina in FEB/MAR to neutral by MAY/JUN.   

Perhaps today was a prelude of things to come? http://livinginpatagonia.com/?p=2375