Prophet 90 or 100

I am stuck between the Line Prophet 90 and 100.

I'm in the usual spot; I ski off-piste most of the time -- so the 100 -- but I have family and friends who often want to play on actual trails -- so the 90. I have seen some discussions here about the 100 in general, but not any comparing the two.

So I am wondering if I will be happy on the 90s. I have seen both skis on sale (somewhere...) and am on the verge of adding to my proverbial quiver.

I am also wondering about the K2 connection -- does K2 actually make the skis, or do they just own the company?

Can't answer this from personal experience, but Wallee reported in his 2/25 post from the following thread that he found the P100's to be very family friendly:

http://.epicski.com/forum/thread/78807/demoing-mantra-mythic-and/30

I ski the prophet 100 in 186 and i use it mainly off piste.  Its an awesome ski in virtually all conditions except the stiffest crud. 

I am also teaching my nephew and niece how to ski so I've spent a lot of time on the groomers with them too lately and they work surprising well (they have a turn radius around 18m so they are very nimble and they are pretty stiff (metal plate) so they hold an edge on the hard stuff.  I haven't tried the 90 but I know I wouldn't want to give up any of the extra float or stability of the 100.  To answer the question properly I would have to ask what else do you have in your quiver, how big are you and what level of skiier are you?

5'10 175

I've been skiing for 32 years, & I suppose maybe my skill level is commensurate with that experience (although I am nowhere near the truly amazing Chaos, the most daring skier in the known universe). I like to ski where the traffic is sparse, which usually means trees, the double-blacks... but you won't find me jumping off of things, and I have no frickin' idea how to manage a half-pipe. (There's a spot at the edge of Heavenly which you access through a gate. A huge skull-and-crossbones hangs over the gate, along with a disclaimer; not just "...at your own risk..." but "...you could die..." That's some skiin' right there.)

I have a pair that I use when I want some stability at speed, on days when I'm going to be on trails -- those are my old yet trusty Bandit Freeride X, circa 2000-01, 198. These are ancient, but they are fun and they are solid at any speed. What can I say -- I like them.

My Furies are a year old, & I got them short so I could zip around trees and things with some aplomb. Lots of fun, except at the limit, which they find before I do; thus the other pair. These will get sold once I pick-up the Prophets.

I'm leaning towards the 100, but I think I'm still considering the 90s because that's as wide as I've gotten. 100 just sounds huge -- maybe I'm even a bit intimidated, though I shouldn't be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wave 

 

....My Furies are a year old, & I got them short so I could zip around trees and things with some aplomb. Lots of fun, except at the limit, which they find before I do; thus the other pair. These will get sold once I pick-up the Prophets.

 

I'm leaning towards the 100, but I think I'm still considering the 90s because that's as wide as I've gotten. 100 just sounds huge -- maybe I'm even a bit intimidated, though I shouldn't be.

Too much overlap between your Fury's and the P90's - go for the P100's.  The current batch of wider skis have developed a great balance of longitudinal softness and torsional rigidity such that they can still be forgiving but edge like a narrower ski.  I picked up a pair of Gotama's earlier this year and they are so powerful on soft groomers (which isn't what I bought them for), that I'm beginning to think about the 110mm+ skis I'm now gonna get...and I weigh 130lbs!
 

 I'll get rid of the Salomons and get the 100s, then. Now I need bindings...

Wave,

I spent another day on the 100's, and really enjoyed them. The only point I'd make for your front side skiing is if you ski with a really close stance, the inner edges of the tips and tails can catch each other.  But I mean a really tight stance (feet together, ankles practically touching).

Agree 100% with eagle, the only conditions I thought "HMMMM" were in 6 - 8 inches of well set up and skied out crud. Not bad, but these are turny ski's, and in those hard-to-ski conditions, that turniness could be interpreted as a bit less stable than other ski's. Not enough to throw me off, and by the end of the day yesterday, I had them better figured out.  But front side, tree's, even in some small-to-medium soft bumps, I had a blast. I'm light at 147 and only 5'9", but I bought these at 179 and have no regrets.  Unfortunately, I did not demo the 90, so can't help compare the two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wave 

 

I am stuck between the Line Prophet 90 and 100.

 

I'm in the usual spot; I ski off-piste most of the time -- so the 100 -- but I have family and friends who often want to play on actual trails -- so the 90. I have seen some discussions here about the 100 in general, but not any comparing the two.

 

So I am wondering if I will be happy on the 90s. I have seen both skis on sale (somewhere...) and am on the verge of adding to my proverbial quiver.

 

I am also wondering about the K2 connection -- does K2 actually make the skis, or do they just own the company?

The 100's don't give up much to the 90's on the groom, but the are a good bit better/more floaty on soft snow.  Get the 100, you won't regret it.  I use them all over the mountain and I've never been dissappointed.  The only exception being Icey conditions, in which they were serviceable, but not very fun.  Outside of that, they are just a very versatile ski with fantastic edge-grip.  Would a narrower waisted ski be more fun on groomers?  Probably, because you could rail them harder, but the 100's edge very easily and you can carve with them on hardpack.  All in all, a very fun ski...

Ive been pondering this same question : 90 v 100: east coast, and have a carver already. At 6 foot 172 , anyone have suggestions on length for either?

Myself, id be interested on any feedback from anyone on whether the 100 would be too wide for East Coast tree and or glade ventures.....

I appreciate the comments, which all seem to be in line with everything else I've heard.

The reviews (from elsewhere) of the 90s all say good things, but they also all fall just short of "OMFG these are great!" whereas comments about the 100s get almost patronizing.

I'm pretty much in. So which bindings... hmmm.

I'm still curious to know what influence K2 is exerting on Line -- y'know, am I simply buying rebadged Seths (or whatever)?

- jer

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbuzz 

 

Ive been pondering this same question : 90 v 100: east coast, and have a carver already. At 6 foot 172 , anyone have suggestions on length for either?

 

Myself, id be interested on any feedback from anyone on whether the 100 would be too wide for East Coast tree and or glade ventures.....

That reminds me, I should've mentioned Tahoe in the thread somewhere, which is where I ski. If the 100s are good for that, then I bet somebody who knows will recommend the 90s for the east coast.

Wallee,

This tendency to be hooky or unstable in crud keeps popping up in reviews of the P-100's here....kind of got me concerned.

I've got some great "skinny" 70/30 midfat carvers in the Head im78 171's...I'm starting to wonder if the P-100's are maybe a bit closer to a really fat 70/30 type ski than a 50/50 type ski? I already have some Dynastar Huge Troubles for full on deep snow days, and I'm looking for that 2nd 50/50, super-versatile ski : Watea 94's, Snoop Daddies, Blizzard Argos, Elan 888's....

Thing is, if that 50/50 ski struggles in heavy crud, or isn't a distinct improvement over the im78's in heavy crud, then I think there would be too much overlap there...I have similar concerns about the Wateas and the Snoops...as opposed to the Elans, Argos, im88's , etc. 

And you are only 147#, so on the 179cm. p-100's...I wonder if a 165-175# skier would have even more problems in this respect...

On the other hand if you only want one ski and are on the groomers 60/70% of the time, these sound like they'd be the ticket....

Wave - From some of the shop folks I've talked to, and I think from a comment I read on an Epic thread, K2 brought money/stability, but not design influence.  That's all second (3rd, 5th???) hand, but logically, the Line line (hehe) brings a "different side of the spectrum" product to K2.  They have their standard heavy stable damp products and with Line, they have a lighter, fun and more responsive line-up.

monologuist - Yep, I know you have been concerned about the 100 being "hooky", and yesterday in some "Colorado" heavy crud (NOT Sierra cement...), I kept wondering how to reply to your questions about that.  My wife demo'ed some Volkl Cosmo's yesterday so we spent a lot of chairlift time talking about her demos and my P-100's.  After a late morning run (Copper Mountain) on a big steep southfacing slope with the previously mentioned snow condiditons, I was trying to decide why I had trouble and so my mind jumped on "hooky".  But truthfully, I could not explain what "hooky" meant to her.  They are carvy, and in deep heavy broken up snow, you can over-drive the turn and get your weight thrown a bit forward.  As you (over) correct that and spin them around, they can come around real quickly.  Results in a bit of a hurky-jerky ride, which isn't pleasant when you have that kind of snow.  My old K2 Outlaws would have been tamer, damper and plowed through that easier.

So I started paying attention to how I was skiing and I "slowed down" or eased up on how hard I was driving the turns in that snow, and the ski's settled down and did fine. So I'm thinking they can over-react and be considered "hooky"??? Maybe all those folks that didn't like them were used to stiffer, longer radius, damper skis... Make sense?

yeah makes total sense...I think the complaints people had were just about them having so much sidecut that they don't do the plow-ahead-through crud thing as well as straighter but equally fat skis with metal and what not.

anyway, sounds like it wasn't a problem once you got used to them and figured out how to handle them in these situations...so not necessarily a "weakness" of the ski, just requires an adjustment of how to ski them .

How did your wife like the Cosmos?

Kbuzz, if you are only going to have one ski, I think the 100 might be a bit much for an every day EC ski.  As for the 100's service in hard crud, I wouldn't say they struggle.  The problem with the 100 is it skis so well in so many conditions that I start to expect them to be perfect in all of them.  Of course this is impossible.  Persomally, I love the 100's but by all means demo if you can.

As for the K2 influence, I've skied my brothers from time to time and they feel nothing like the prophets, much more damp for one thing.

M - she liked them, but only had 1/2 day on them (morning was spent on Salomon Jade's, and to paraphrase others around here, she felt there just wasn't any there there).  She has been on Apache Recons for a couple of years and was just exploring something different, something lighter and livelier. She liked them, but in her short time on them, it only wetted her desire to try others, not buy these.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monologuist 

 

yeah makes total sense...I think the complaints people had were just about them having so much sidecut that they don't do the plow-ahead-through crud thing as well as straighter but equally fat skis with metal and what not.

 

anyway, sounds like it wasn't a problem once you got used to them and figured out how to handle them in these situations...so not necessarily a "weakness" of the ski, just requires an adjustment of how to ski them .

 

How did your wife like the Cosmos?

 

 

The p-100's aren't a straight line crud ski.  They are fine in crud if you get them on edge.  They just want to turn.  Big long arcs in the crud are stable, but blasting through crud on a line is where you'd get the hooky feeling, because the sidecut just facilitates the tip hooking up.  I, for one, haven't had a problem with them.  I'm agressive and am 6-1 220lbs.  The 186's are plenty stable.  I'd be all over a 191, if they made it, but the 186's are great...

Wave,

It sounds like you're sold on the 100's and I'm sure you will love them.  Years ago when I bought a 100mm ski (moving up from a 79 waist)  I had to wait 4 months before I skied them and the thought often crossed my mind," what have you done?"  That is until I skied them and now I will never look back. 

If you go with the prophets your next decision is whether you're going for the 179 or the 186, the numbers say 179 for you but it would be great if you could demo them, you might like the extra float and stability of the 186.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the eagle spreader 

 

Wave,

 

It sounds like you're sold on the 100's and I'm sure you will love them.  Years ago when I bought a 100mm ski (moving up from a 79 waist)  I had to wait 4 months before I skied them and the thought often crossed my mind," what have you done?"  That is until I skied them and now I will never look back. 

If you go with the prophets your next decision is whether you're going for the 179 or the 186, the numbers say 179 for you but it would be great if you could demo them, you might like the extra float and stability of the 186.

KInda feels like I'm sold, too. Now I need to find a good deal. I was looking at SierraSkis (the ski giveaway worked -- it got the attention of at least this customer), but all they have is 172, and I'm looking for 179, although the 186 is tempting.

"...but honey...no...no, hon...yes, I know...I'll sell the...no...no, I can't return them...I love yoouuu..."

I went down to the garage this morning, measured my Bandits. ~65mm. They look anemic next to the Furies; I'll have to keep the Prophets in another room. That's the point, isn't it, of having 2 pair -- they complement each other.

Did anyone have any base bevel issues?  I have a new pair of 90's that I set the edge at 3* but I don't have anything to measure the base bevel.  Everything I read about the 90's said they railed on hardpack. I can't get these on edge at all. Hoping its the base bevel. They float nice in the soft stuff, but I am on the ice coast. Need to use my edges occasionally.

After reading about the Prophets here and heard from others, I was dying to demo a pair. I finally got a chance this past w/e with the 90s in 174cm (didn't get to the 100s before they shut down). Temp was in the low to mid 20s, sun out and base was all eastern hardpack with less than 1 inch of groomed ice/snow. I tried it on 3 runs ranging from blue to high black (not double). I also did a variety of turn radius. Sorry to say, I was pretty disappointed in its performance. The transition was very static from edge and edge. So much that I was afraid to over edge them. Also, anything uneven in that condition would chatter until my fillings fall out. The only thing I regret was that there wasn't more variable condition on that day to try them out on powder and crud.

The rep kept telling me that I needed to bend it some more (torsionally I supposed based on his way of describing laying them over) and I wasn't skiing them correctly. Granted he may be right, you know what, if I was to spend so much on a new pair of skis, I want them to work (if not do wonders) for me under the predominant condition in the region. Funny that I didn't have such issues with  the Watea 84 and Mythic in comparable length that I demoed, which gave me so much more joy.

chanwmr,

I am not at all that surprised you didn't find the 90's great for those east coast conditions, the 100's would have been even worse. As you describe it "eastern hardpack with 1 inch of groomed/ice snow" there is no way that ski is going to shine in those circumstances. 

It might be a good idea to hear from more people who didn't like the Prophets, if only to gain some perspective. I hear everyday how killer the 100 is, Ski of the Year, Editor's Choice, blah blah blah, so I'm getting suspicious.

Absolutely no question about that, though I think Eagle's right -- it's just not an Eastern Hardpack With 1 Inch Of Groomed/Ice Snow kind of ski.

I think it unfair to compare reviews by demo /skiers to owner / skiers.Most demo/skiers usually ski with a preconceived notion of how a ski should feel as opposed to spending the time to learn how a particular ski "feels" when pushed in a variety of conditions. I own the prophet 100,I am presently out at Steamboat for the past 2 weeks.I also own Dynastar intuitiv 74.Conditions have varied from hardpack to pp,to spring conditions.We have had one 7' morning followed by crud. I have yet to bring out the intuitivs,wanting to spend time on my new skis on a variety of conditions. Every day I like these skis more,and they are closer to an all purpose western ski than my older seth pistols.I don't ski the east any longer,but They would not be my chice as an "only ski" for those conditions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the eagle spreader 

 

chanwmr,

 

I am not at all that surprised you didn't find the 90's great for those east coast conditions, the 100's would have been even worse. As you describe it "eastern hardpack with 1 inch of groomed/ice snow" there is no way that ski is going to shine in those circumstances. 

Like I said, that was not what the rep told me and he was pretty insistent about it wasn't the condition but the skier. In fact, he said to try the 100s later because they ski softer than the 90s.
 

I decided to swing by REI during lunch today. Within a minute, I had them in my hand -- the last pair of 100s in 179. Wouldn't you know, they're having a big sale on ski gear. It is, according to the saleslady, the end of their season; it certainly isn't the end of mine (or yours, either).

I was out of there in 10 minutes. With the skis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rootsar 

 

We have had one 7' morning followed by crud. I have yet to bring out the intuitivs,wanting to spend time on my new skis on a variety of conditions.

7 Feet holy cow...I must have missed that TR

Another satisfied P-100 owner here.....

Here's suggestion...try both buy whichever one you like or don't buy either if you don't like them.......... 

should have read 7", and I miss every inch as I sit here  after a mushy 60 degree day.

How much did you get em for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by monologuist 

 

How much did you get em for?

$400, which is 200 off msrp. The cheapest I've seen is 375 at SierraSkis, but they only have the 172s. Al's Equipment Barn has them "on sale" for 599.

They have K2, Rossi, Salomon, etc.; I was just about to browse through them when I saw the Prophets peeking out form the other side of the rack. The REI website doesn't have them at all.