DIN Set By Idiot?

 

Nice to hear you got it dealt with... and sorry for threadjacking, I get bored at times ;).

Rise to the Top.....how tall are you and how much do you wiegh? Just out of curiosity.

 

DIN level of 30 oh man. That is utterly ridicoulous have fun tearing your ACL. The highest din on any of my skis is an 8. I am 5,10 145, pounds. I have never pre-released out of any of my skis and I am rocking almost all marker binders.

 

Some of the most common and worst injuries happen at slower speeds because of the fact that your skis do not come off when they should. Now, imagine not having your skis come off when they need to at a higher speed.

 

That and there is always a a risk while skiing. Heck, I decided to plant my face in the snow and drag it there for a good 100 feet the other day. Mistakes and accidents do happen. Sorry for the repeat but that kind of shocked me comp 30s.

 

As for Marker goes.....it seems that the heel piece always seems to test out low. The side to side always seems to test fine. But the upward thrust as in the heel pulling out. I mean all of there bindings pass. But the heel piece test is not ideal. Thats what I noticed when we where testing all my binders. That goes for the Marker Jesters, Marker IPT sytems, and the older maker 1200s. Seems like marker has a trend there.

 

Bindings like the 30 are for situations where loosing a ski could result in death.

If the shop was that far off on the DIN, I wonder how the did setting the forward pressure.

 

At your age and level it is important to get the setting just right.

 

...so what did they set them at...what's your DIN now.

Never never ski on skis fresh from the shop.  Check your DINs. 

 

My Tyrolia Race Bindings go to 17.  I am reasonably sure that in the event of a fall, my jeg would rip off at the knee if I set them there.  I usually ski around 9 or 10 in beer league GS events.

 

For a guy your size, 7-8- would not be unreasonable.

 

Super easy to adjust.  Flip the toe piece cover up so you can get at the screw.  Then clockwise until the gage says 7.  Flip UP the heel piece and repeat on the heel (so you can see the gauge.  Flip back down.

 

RTTP has the luxury of being a very young man.  Unfortunately that luxury is also a handicap. 

 

- 5'9", 155lbs.

 

- at DIN 8, I step out when just cruising around. I had incidents last year where I would step out of the heel doing slalom turns on DIN 10 and 11. Just the other day I stepped out of my Super-G skis at DIN 15 after landing a knoll. And only one ski came off. To me, its all about the way you control your fall. I have had SEVERAL incidents this year and last year where I should have broken my legs, but I slide down in a way that nothing happens. Kinda sounds like bullshit, but when I fell the other day at Attitash on their SG trail I was easily doing mid 60s while freeskiing.

 

- I never ski on DIN 30. Those bindings are set around 18.

Hard to believe you can step out of DIN 8 while cruising unless something else is wrong.  It doesn't make sense based on my experience with bindings.

 

 

Doesn't make sense to me ether, but it has happened a handful of times with my skis.

 

Sounds to me like the forward pressure is not adjusted properly for your boot sole length.

 

Or there's something seriously wrong with your bindings.   You're talking about ~400 Newton-meters of torque to step out of a heel at those DIN settings.  That's a lot of torque.

+1 on forward pressure guess. And/or maybe your boots have overly worn toes or heels? Something is not right. Sounds like you badly need to visit a tech.

Yes Karpiel I know what comp 30 din bindings are used for. But on an SL ski for that age and wieght its is no where needed.

 

The only time I have consistantly unclicked out of my skis on 8 is when I am attempting to do a tip stand and every once and I while Ill pop out of them.

And as most racers don't seem to have issues with FKS185/P18/PX18, Race 1018, Z17(X), LAB920 etc. even on the steepest, fastest courses one has to question why Marker need to produce a binding that goes from 18 to 30!  Surely that's an open admission that something is seriously wrong with the basic Marker design - not trying to be a Marker basher, but this really does puzzle me.

> Surely that's an open admission that something is seriously wrong with the basic Marker design

 

I don't think so. Other brands may have a heavier-spring version, even of their top race binding, that's used for speed events. They may not be marked differently, but still have a real DIN that runs up into an incredibly high range. Salomon does, certainly.

 

Naw, all screws flush. Boots are fine, just got them last year. The toes are slightly worn, and so are the heels, but nothing major that would cause a release (my boots were at the shop 2 months ago and I asked if they were fine).

 

 

5

Jesus. Why do they even have releasing bindings at that point? Why not just bolt the boot right on? I'm pretty sure your leg is seperating before that binding lets go.

How come no one's posted any videos of horrible WC race wipeouts with multiple fractured spaghetti legs flopping all over the place tumbling down the hill while still locked in to bindings set at 30?

As Takecontrol and Philpug mention, the bindings need to be tested: http://www.vermontskisafety.com/assets/files/VERMONT-RELEASE-CALIBRATER.pdf

 

The binding setting must be where the tester matches the chart regardless of what shows in the indicator window (although it ought to be very close).

 

As said above, maybe these were never set nor tested, and the shop is clearly at fault.

 

 

I question the word "need", as most of the world outside of the USofA seems to survive without stringently performing these kinds of tests. Round here they mostly screw 'em on, set the DIN scale to whatever you ask for, or what they think is appropriate based mostly on weight, and off you go. No paperwork whatsoever.

 

I'm not saying that tests are a waste of time, just that in a less litigious society than "over there", real life experience seems to indicate that most bindings work as intended most of the time.

 

I've tried bolting my boots, but I had problems getting them on and off 

 

You won't be doing the team much good in the hospital.

 

As a race coach, serious masters racer and winner of numerous NH Division 1 races for Kennett HS (way before you were born), I'd suggest having your bindings checked by a professional. The pre-release could be from an incorrect setting or a defective binding.

 

If you still have problems keeping your skis on, I'd look for a solution in the mirror or by talking to a coach, not by turning the bindings up to an unreasonable setting.
 

I hope your team and you did well this past season. Best of luck in the future. You'll need it if you set your bindings at 30.

 

MR

 

 

I have spent alot of time around the shop, mainly with Marker Bindings. I know how to mount, set, and function test them. The pair of bindings that were previously on my P70s were Marker M1000s, which are notorious for toe and heel releases, and are actually a Jr oriented binding. At the time the only binding I had laying around was a pair of Comp 30s, which I had no other use for. Like I said, they are primarily slip skis, nothing else. At the moment, I don't have a pair of skis other than my slippers that I would mount them on, not even my DH boards. As for my other releases, it may just be a Marker thing.

Sounds like the shop just never set the DIN. a 3.5 is the lowest setting on most adult bindings. This is also the setting most bindings are set at when they come out of the box. This is because it has the least amount of pressure on the spring in the binding. How many people here back there DIN all the way down when you store your skis for the summer? This is something manufactures have recommended before.

 

You would be amazed how many bindings test off of what they should be. In the few years I mounted bindings. Marker junior bindings that were not brand new were always off by .5 or .75 DIN. Most new bindings tested pretty much dead on. A persons boot also effects release torque. This is the reason most shops need both boots to mount skis and label them left and right. There are no left and right skis(except maybe some race skis), but they have been tested with left and right boots.

 

Marker does not admit to pre-release problems. What alot of us consider a pre-release is something Marker has manufactured into the binding. The mechanical toe has very little side to side movement before the wing on the toe piece is mechanically opened ejecting the boot. The side to side movement allowed is around 1/2 the distance other bindings allow before the boot hits the point of no return and comes out of the binding. Markers argument is a boot never moves side to side in the binding unless it is a situation in where the ski should come off to protect the skier. I currently have Markers(you can't turn down free bindings) on my skis, The DIN is currently set 1 higher than what I would run on Look or Rossi bindings. I have done this because my skis were coming off in situations they should not come off in.

 

 

Phil. after blowing out of both skis, Din 4.0 or something.  Set by an idiot?  Well, maybe set by a human.

 

 

Edited by newfydog - 6/24/2009 at 06:13 am GMT

 

On pisted* runs 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*brutally groomed

Just a quick one, about bench testing the all metal Marker race bindings to determine if the DIN settings on the toes are accurate. My kids {19 and 22} are both racing on Markers. My daughter is on 2000's, and my son is on 3000's on all of his skis. We've learned that a number of the bindings provided to them had issues. For example, a toe might be set at a DIN of 18, and test in one direction at 14, and another at 22. That's probably the biggest variance. At any rate, I've heard the comment that "I mounted the toes, tested them, and some are being sent back for replacement" from a few techs/reps.  I thought it was a one time deal at first. Not so. Boot soles are perfect, always in Cat Tracks off the snow, etc. Neither has had any pre-release issues whatsoever over a number of seasons for my son, and the most recent one for my daughter. Sometimes when mounting race bindings, they don't get tested. Actually more often than not. Just thought I'd pass this experience along. I'd say about one out of every six or so toes has been "off". No issues {knock on wood} with the heels.

I have always set my bindings myself because if you tell the shop you are an intermediate on certain days/runs you could be skiing at an advanced speed and have prerelease falls. I do remember the fear I had when I cranked my bindings up each notch as I got better and better untill I ended up without any more prerelease falls. I ended up leaving my bindings set at 8 which I am quite happy with although I am aware a release at 8 is more likely on ice/hard snow than soft snow. Incidently as an exercise I had a shop check my DIN setting based on my weight/height/age and claimed ability and their computer said 8 too.

Thats all well and good but as Muleski states in the prior post, there are variations. Just because YOU set teh binding at an 8, doesn't mean it is actually at an 8. Calibrating has as much to do with the setting as to HOW the binding is actually set in Nm's. You might think you set it at an 8 but it could be really a 7 or 9 in Nm range. It is not a bad thing to have a shop calibrate the biding to get a base mark, that way IF you are to bypass the manufacturers suggested DIN, you have a better idea that the actual change that you are making. is what you expect it to be. Once you get out of the "bell curve" of DIN, there is a greater chance of variation jsut look at a Marker vs. Look Rossi DIN chart, there are actually discrepancies between the two charts at the extremities. 

Interesting how a Standard (DIN 7881) varies..