DIN Set By Idiot?

Howdy All,

Just got a new pair of skis.  I have an assortment of XC and BC skis but these are my first alpines.  Anyways, I got them at your usual sports-bargain type store, because I was looking for a deal (yeah yeah).

Anyways, the guy at the one near our house is real good (where my girlfriend got her skis).  But I don't know about this kid.  Every place I've checked says my DIN should be 5 - 5.5.  I'm 5'10", 215 lbs, Type I skiier (getting closer to II but stick to I for now).

Her skis, at the good store, were set to about 5.25 or 5.5.  (she almost my size).  My skis, which I got at a different location because the ones I wanted were sold out at the local shop, were set to maybe 3.5!!!!!!!!!   That's like kid settings, right? 

Needless to say I had THREE inadventant releases on Saturday skiing easy stuff.  Its a really REALLY fun feeling .   I obviously don't want to take them back to the SAME dude, and I don't know if I could get my money back for the ASTM test anyways.  I could take it to REI or another shop, but it pisses me off to pay again for something that shouldn't be that freakin hard to do!!!!

I'm big on DIY and not setting a very tight release like a II or III skiier, so I'm tempted to just crank it up to 5 and test for release by hand...  but I know there will be a chorus of warnings so please.  give me the WHOLE safety spiel (I <3 safety)

What would you do?

Yes, your DIN should be right around 5. 

I'd go back to the shop and let them know they could have gotten you seriously hurt by setting the DIN that low. 

A good friend of mine had the same thing happen last year and he ended up tearing up his shoulder after popping out of his skis in a mogul field.  He got a new pair of skis out of the deal after reading the shop the riot act, but it cost him a surgery and most of last ski season.

I'd find a reputable shop in your area and let someone who knows what they are doing set them..
 

I think you're just wasting your time going back to the store where you purchased them, they likely don't have a clue.

Yep, 3.5 is exactly a "kid setting." Indeed, that's where the DIN is set on my own kid's skis. Safe to say, she's a tad smaller than you are. Many adult bindings don't even go down to 3.5. I suspect they didn't set the DIN at all, and what you got was where it happened to be when they took the binding out of the box (i.e. at or darn near the bottom of the scale).

My initial thought would be to go back to the store where you got them, tell them they screwed up in an obvious manner and get them to take care of it for free. If they want to charge you, you'll learn something worth knowing about how awful that store is. If they do it for free, it'll be taken care of, and maybe they'll learn something worth knowing that might make them more careful with future customers.

On the other hand, they may be beyond redemption. An reasonable alternative course of action might be just to go to the good store, where your girlfriend has shopped in the past. They may be nice to you in light of your spiel, and there's something to be said for establishing a little bit of a relationship with them, as you now know that's the place to go in the future, rather than that lousy big-box store.

Set em to 30. That always solves the problem for me ;).

Back in the good old days, I would never think hesistate to changing the settings on my bindings myself. I would frequently do it - about as frequently, and for the same reasons, that I would adjust the forward flex on my SX-91s. Now, I'm not so inclined to do it myself, but never say never.

But, regardless whether you do it yourself or have a shop do it, if you're experiencing inadvertent releases like you describe, the DIN settings are to low, and need to be increased.  Explain what happened to the tech. If he won't fix it, fib about your skiing level if you must.

FWIW: the DIN chart I've got only goes down to 4.75 for someone who's 5'10" (and at least 148 lbs).

By my rough figuring, at a 3.5 DIN with a 331 mm sole, the torque is about 40 Nm, while at 5.5 with a 271 mm sole it's nearly 48 Nm.

Sad thing is it's the same chain, just different locations. 

The one that screwed up is out of the way, so mabye I can play up the pity factor with the local store.  I'd like to avoid going down to the screw-up store AND avoid paying again.  If I can dig up my paperwork that just might work.

Just a simple reading of most DIN charts, your height, weight and assuming boot sole < 330 and age <50, the setting is 6 for a Level I.   My suggestion is to take your gear to the store that set the bindings, tell them its not working and ask them to SHOW you how they arrived at the setting.  If you disagree with the variables or find an error, request that they fix it and perform a release check. A quick check of a DIN chart suggests they simply deducted 100 lbs from your weight.

Seems to my you already paid for this service, you certainly deserve to understand how they manage to depart from the setting that is very easily researched, and have that adjusted if they made an error.  They should raise the settings based on your complaint of pre-release anyway.   Ask them to check forward pressure while you are there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rise To The Top 

 

Set em to 30. That always solves the problem for me ;).

 

really? is that humanlly possible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skibum185 

 

 

 

 

really? is that humanlly possible?

To come out of them? idk, I am yet to release from them. Who the hell wants a slalom ski to come off anyway?

jesus...i didnt know racers had them that jacked up

Quote:

Originally Posted by skibum185 

 

jesus...i didnt know racers had them that jacked up

They don't. Unless they use Markers! And even then most don't need/use Comp 30s for slalom. SG/DH is another matter.

According to the DIN chart that I have, 215 lbs would put you at Skier Code "M" and 5'10" puts you at Skier Code "K". 

Since you pick the one closer to the top of the chart, that would be "K". 

There is no adjustment for a Type I skier on the chart I am using. 

If you are under 50 there is no adjustment.

The actual DIN is dependent on your Boot Sole Length:

251-270mm yields DIN 6, 271-290mm yields DIN 5.5, 291-310mm yields DIN 5.25, 311-330mm yields DIN 5, and >330mm yields DIN 4.75.

Sounds like there is another chart with different numbers based on some of the other responses.

Nevertheless, it's good to see the number of immediate responses to a safety related questions.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by erykmynn 

 

Sad thing is it's the same chain, just different locations. 

 

The one that screwed up is out of the way, so mabye I can play up the pity factor with the local store.  I'd like to avoid going down to the screw-up store AND avoid paying again.  If I can dig up my paperwork that just might work.

Just find a screwdriver already! Screw 'em to 5.5 if that's what the chart says, get out there and have fun. It ain't rocket science.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squawker 

 

 

They don't. Unless they use Markers! And even then most don't need/use Comp 30s for slalom. SG/DH is another matter.

Eh, I set 20s on my SG/DH skis with my DIN around 16. I have had some falls in SL where my skis came off when I didn't want them to come off along with a series of pre-releases at DIN 10 with Marker 12s. I didn't want to go any further on the binding for durability reasons, so I decided to switch. I had 30s laying around so threw em on. Haven't had an issue since. I use those skis primarily as slip/highschool racing skis. Slalom isn't a high risk discipline (well, for me atleast), so the high DIN poses little to no threat to me.

And OP, just find a screw driver and bring em up to 5.5. It's not that hard, esp at a low DIN. To get my Comp 30s up to 30 I had to use an impact driver, heh.

The guy probably had a DIN calculator on his computer, made a typo and entered 5'1"  instead of 5'10".

Then he turned his brain off when he saw the result.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rise To The Top 

 

 

Eh, I set 20s on my SG/DH skis with my DIN around 16. I have had some falls in SL where my skis came off when I didn't want them to come off along with a series of pre-releases at DIN 10 with Marker 12s. I didn't want to go any further on the binding for durability reasons, so I decided to switch. I had 30s laying around so threw em on. Haven't had an issue since. I use those skis primarily as slip/highschool racing skis. Slalom isn't a high risk discipline (well, for me atleast), so the high DIN poses little to no threat to me.

Off-topic:

Slalom isn't high risk, therefore you don't need a binding that will hold you in at any cost. You will hit gates, twist around you own axis etc. and if the forces involved are high enough you should be happy for the bindings to release. Ergo, an 18-20 DIN binding should be more than adequate (and most binding manufacturers don't have bindings available that are more than 20 DIN anyway).

In SG/DH the consequences of a (pre-)release could be life threatening, which is why I'd expect relatively higher DIN settings than in SL. In the case of Markers that apparently means Comp 30s when nothing else works.

Examples of "standard" racing configurations from a local importer:

Racetiger SL/GS - Marker Comp 16

Racetiger SG - Marker Comp 20

Salomon Equipe SL/GS LAB - 914LAB

Salomon Equipe SG LAB - 920LAB

Atomic SL12 - RACE614

Atomic GS/SG - RACE1018

Marker Comp 30s on SLs sounds like a recipe for knee surgery, and probably plaster casting, to me.

Just my $0.02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squawker 

 

 

Off-topic:

 

Slalom isn't high risk, therefore you don't need a binding that will hold you in at any cost. You will hit gates, twist around you own axis etc. and if the forces involved are high enough you should be happy for the bindings to release. Ergo, an 18-20 DIN binding should be more than adequate (and most binding manufacturers don't have bindings available that are more than 20 DIN anyway).

 

In SG/DH the consequences of a (pre-)release could be life threatening, which is why I'd expect relatively higher DIN settings than in SL. In the case of Markers that apparently means Comp 30s when nothing else works.

 

Examples of "standard" racing configurations from a local importer:

 

Racetiger SL/GS - Marker Comp 16

Racetiger SG - Marker Comp 20

 

Salomon Equipe SL/GS LAB - 914LAB

Salomon Equipe SG LAB - 920LAB

 

Atomic SL12 - RACE614

Atomic GS/SG - RACE1018

 

Marker Comp 30s on SLs sounds like a recipe for knee surgery, and probably plaster casting, to me.

 

Just my $0.02

Agreed. 30 din is very much overkill... Even for speed. Worldcuppers seem to be very much fine with the Atomic 1018 so I don't see a need to run anything higher than 20 myself.

Around these parts we like to say that racers that crank their dins way up are compensating for something

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMAS29 

 

 

 

Agreed. 30 din is very much overkill... Even for speed. Worldcuppers seem to be very much fine with the Atomic 1018 so I don't see a need to run anything higher than 20 myself.

 

Around these parts we like to say that racers that crank their dins way up are compensating for something

Naw . They are actually set on 17 at the moment, which is the lowest they seem to go... and note, they are HS race/slip skis. If I had a serious need for a 30 binding, they wouldn't be on a pair of Volkl P70s... anyway if I fall in a HS race, I still need to finish with a decent time (we have 6 kids on our team, 2 of which can't ski; they take the 4 best times). If a ski comes off it could impact our team moving up to the next level. And who falls while side slipping?

There is a reason that Marker makes a binding that goes to 30, they come off easier than most other bindings at 18.  I raced on Look for years for SL I'd set @14, for GS 14, for SG & DH 18.  Way too high for safety.  That why racers break legs but a release can cause other injuries so racers risk it. 

The short of it, DO NOT SET YOUR BINDINGS LIKE RACERS DO!!!!  They are not trying to prevent a tib/fib break they are trying to win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rise To The Top 

 

Set em to 30. That always solves the problem for me ;).

 

That for when a 25 DIN is just too warm and fuzzy. 

Sounds like your DIN is definitely too low.

However, that makes me question whether or not your forward pressure is set correctly as well. Have the original shop fix their f-up, then take them to the other shop for a quick once over.

As always, JMHO and YMMV

The bindings might have tested weird, i.e. the 3.5 on your bindings might correspond with the forces that are normally associated with a 5.5.  I think that if this were the case though, the shop would have said something and recommended that the bindings get waranteed.  Sounds like what most likely happened was the bindings came out of the box on their lowest setting (to relieve pressure on the spring), got mounted, and placed into the "done" pile without the DIN ever getting set or the release being tested.  I'd check with the shop, its a 5 minute fix that they'd most likely do for free.

I don't trust anyone but myself.

On the release of liability, have them write a note, noting that you are going to set up your own skis... sign underneath this note, then ask for a screwdriver and do it right.

That's what I've always done.

If the binding torques correctly for what you SHOULD be set at according to "the Chart", it will give you a better level of comfort if and when you set your own din to a higher level.  

Here's a website with a DIN Chart and an automatic DIN Calculator.  Use whatever one you need to help you determine what your recommended DIN setting is.

thanks for all the advice.  I had them set to 30 as suggested....

...JUST KIDDING...  actually the local store that doesn't suck took care of them for free.  I am def. not opposed to doing my own adjustments, but it does make me feel better to know that they are being tested as well.  esp. since i've been prone to falling lately