Want to move up to next level but can't

Hi everyone,

I'm 45 and started skiing about 4 years ago and fell in love with the sport. Unfortunately the sport doesn't seem to love me. We go a few times a year and this is my 4th year. I am getting really frustrated.  It feels like one step forward and two steps back every time. I'm starting to feel like maybe I'm just too old to start something like this. I don't have too high of expectations except to be able to ski with my family instead of being left behind on the smaller slopes. Last week we went to Big Bear and I had a major breakthrough. I was skiing great and felt really confident. Then the next week we went to Tahoe and it was like I had forgotten how to ski. The only thing that might have contributed to it was that I had hurt my back that morning and was not in top form.  I think my fear is really holding me back. My husband says I'm ready to move on to bigger slopes, but I'm just scared because I never know if it's a good ski day for me or if I'm going to be totally out of control. Are there any other late blooming skiiers out there that have gone through this? I really don't want to give up. When I'm doing good I love it!

What epic said............plus never feel pushed into something that takes you too far out of your comfort zone. You will lose form and not have fun. Take it at your own pace and push yourself, not by someone else, unless it's your instructor. I was/am in the same place and time frame. and on my first day, I just hit the greens to warm up and to recall what I learned, trying to maintain good form. After lunch I feel alot more "ready" to challenge myself.

As far as age....I started at 58. Snowboarded for couple of years and decided skiing was a lot more comfortable on the body! You most definately are, not too old!

Welcome to EpicSki, Matildah! You'll find here all the encouragement and advice--and the empathetic ears and shoulders--that you need. Don't give up! And no, it is not too late. Indeed, it's never too late to reinvent yourself, and finding things to be a beginner at again is the antidote to aging!

One thing is certain about skiing--and many other things. We have days when everything seems go great, and days when it seems that good turns are our natural enemies. I think that there are a great many reasons for this--including improvement! As we achieve breakthroughs, our personal standards and expectations rise, along with our sensitivity to errors that we might not have even noticed before. As I often remind myself, every one of us has only made our best turn once!  Other turns won't measure up, until we make a better one--and then our standards rise again. Don't let it frustrate you. Recognize it as a sign of learning. Celebrate every breakthrough and every great run. Be proud of your ability and your success. But don't ever let yourself be satisfied! Satisfaction is the end of learning.

For some great insights on these things, you can't do better than the book (and related DVD) Brilliant Skiing, Every Day, by Weems Westfeldt. Weems is one of our regular contributors here, as well one of my personal gurus and fellow EpicSki Academy coach. He will introduce you to the Sports Diamond, which can help you understand--and overcome--these apparent setbacks that you describe, and that we all experience. Among other things, Weems will explain how it is that he's never had a bad day on skis, even though there may have been many days when he's skied very badly (badly in his opinion, anyway--perhaps not an opinion shared by many who have skied with him!).

Brilliant Skiing in ebook format is a free download from the website www.edgechange.com/. Please check it out. If you're intrigued for more, click on the link to EpicSki Academy below. It's not too late to join us in Big Sky, Montana, for the final event of the season!

Best regards,

Bob Barnes

Thanks so much. I will check into those books and hopefully it will help. I appreciate the words of encouragement.

Thanks, I was thinking of going back and getting some more lessons, so I think I will do that our next trip.

It's great to hear about others learning at an older age. It makes me feel a lot better.  Thanks for that. 

Sounds like you're doing fine for going just a few times a year for four years, so don't sweat it.  Do you have your own gear?  Good fitting boots and skis of your own will give you much more consistent performance from your gear, and therefore more confidence day to day in your skiing.  Keep things tuned up a little bit too.

 From the perspective of one who started relatively late in life (age 49) you can have a great time in this sport, and you can get better.  We've taken quite a few lessons and were fortunate to "luck" into finding an instructor who we really learn a ton from.  And while I still suck, I suck a lot less and I'm comfortable on terrain I would've never thought I'd even try a few years ago.  So I'd echo the suggestions of Epic and Bob and say find a good instructor with whom you feel you have good rapport and can learn from.  But have fun with the process and don't worry about what terrain you're skiing or how fast your skiing, or any of those kinds of outcomes.  Just have fun with the process and you will get better, slowly and gradually perhaps, but you will get better.  At the end of the day, the only thing that counts is how much fun you had.  And I too would like to welcome you Epic. 

Unless you are a natural or you have done it at the expert level for a while, you are going to feel differently on snow from day to day. There are many factors involved. Besides how your own well being on that day, weather and snow condition play a big part.

Being someone in a similar situation (in age and years on snow), I can relate because frequently I feel the same. Half of the time I feel great and the other half I feel like crap. It can be very frustrating or discouraging at time. Don't be too hard on yourself because believe it or not, the chances are you are progressing even though you may not feel so. But, do try to improve by taking lessons and apply what you learn. Make sure you communicate with your instructor/coach what you are trying to work on and under what condition. If he/she cannot relate to your "problem" move onto to someone else.

Hi Mathildah,

   I can relate to a lot of what you're saying!  I was 48 when I started skiing, now I'm 53.  My husband is a natural skier but I'm the fanatic in the family.  I don't consider myself the quickest learner, but I'm very persistent.  In the first season, I skied 6 days, 2nd season - 12 days, 3rd season-25 days and took group lessons--had a really hard time understanding a lot of what instructors were saying (stand up straight, bend your knees, bend your ankles, etc).  Season 4- I decided to give mysef a huge present - 42 days on snow, private lessons, several womens clinics.

I improved last year a lot although still have a very long way to go.  Starting on blacks although conditions I'm not used to can throw me (perhaps someday I'll stop hearing the "back" word).

      You are definitely not too old to start.  Everyone has better days and not so great days.  I had a blockbuster ski day followed by one on crud where I was definitely clueless.  Snow is constantly changing; its a challenging sport to learn --but so rewarding---especially when it comes to being afraid and then facing it and learning what to do!!!!   I have definitely gone through what you have.  My recommendations come to you (for the most part) from recommendations I got from epic and ski diva people:  Ski as much as you can, learn as much as you can--here, take lessons if possible (find a really good translator, i.e what is this person saying to me, I am over my feet!!!).  Weems book is really good.  I have to be honest though and say the single best thing I have ever done for my skiing (other than practice) is take private lessons with some amazing people!!!!

Mathildah,

  I forgot to mention, the best book on fear I have ever read is "In the Yikes Zone" by Mermer Blakeslee.  I cried when I read it because I recognized myself --at the top of a pitch, frozen in place, my limbs too stiff to move with my poor husband trying to figure out how to coach/coax me down.  I skied that trail a couple of weeks ago -- it seems a lot flatter to me now!  PM me if you would like to get the book and can't find it at a reasonable price.

Ski Spirit,

I was going to recommend the same book, however, I did some searching for it and the prices are out of this world.  Do you know where it can be reasonably obtained?  If so, could you please post it here?  Its a great reference book that many people will get a great deal out of.

Thanks

Ah, the skier's paradox.  You must be very aggressive to have the control to ski as slowly as you want.  If you're in defensive positions ( weight back on your heels, weight on the uphill ski) nothing works right and your skis run out from under you.

As always, you need to balance over your outside ski (usually the downhill ski, always the outside ski).

When things go right, think back about exactly what you did right.  Make a mental checklist for yourself of the basics...weight on the center of your feet and pressing against the boot tongues, weight over the outside ski & light on the inside ski, hips & shoulders facing the outside ski, hands a bit forward & out to the sides in a natural balancing position, etc.  Put these in numerical order for which are most important for you.  When things don't go right, stop, go back to your number one on your list, and get each thing right, one at a time.

We borrowed The Yikes! Zone through an interlibrary loan from our local public library.  Worth reading!--get it.  One basic to remember...try new things on familiar terrain, and ski new terrain with familiar skills.  Do not try new skills on new terrain.

I have seen several references to "The Yikes Zone" book here on this thread.  As others have commented; it's hard to find, and outrageously expensive to purchase.  I'd like to recommend an alternative:  Inner Skiing.  It really helped my scaredy-cat nature immensely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy 

 

Ah, the skier's paradox.  You must be very aggressive to have the control to ski as slowly as you want.  If you're in defensive positions ( weight back on your heels, weight on the uphill ski) nothing works right and your skis run out from under you.

 

As always, you need to balance over your outside ski (usually the downhill ski, always the outside ski).

 

When things go right, think back about exactly what you did right.  Make a mental checklist for yourself of the basics...weight on the center of your feet and pressing against the boot tongues, weight over the outside ski & light on the inside ski, hips & shoulders facing the outside ski, hands a bit forward & out to the sides in a natural balancing position, etc.  Put these in numerical order for which are most important for you.  When things don't go right, stop, go back to your number one on your list, and get each thing right, one at a time.

 

We borrowed The Yikes! Zone through an interlibrary loan from our local public library.  Worth reading!--get it.  One basic to remember...try new things on familiar terrain, and ski new terrain with familiar skills.  Do not try new skills on new terrain.

Mathildah,
 

    If you can follow what Soft Snow Guy is saying, you will definitely make progress--it doesn't sound that complicated but it seems to take time to "get It" at least I felt that way. 

    FYI, the Divas (theSkiDiva.com) also have at least one circulating copy of "In the Yikes Zone."  I thought "Inner Skiing" was very good but, if you can get it, "In the Yikes Zone" is the BEST!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by matildah 

 

 I am getting really frustrated.  It feels like one step forward and two steps back every time.   I think my fear is really holding me back. My husband says I'm ready to move on to bigger slopes, but I'm just scared because I never know if it's a good ski day for me or if I'm going to be totally out of control.  I really don't want to give up.

Well I think you should read this, and PM me if you have any questions. (Then get up with SkiSpirit and fly out in April)

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/81126/announcing-cubefest#post_1064634

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy 

 

Ah, the skier's paradox.  You must be very aggressive to have the control to ski as slowly as you want.  If you're in defensive positions ( weight back on your heels, weight on the uphill ski) nothing works right and your skis run out from under you.

 

As always, you need to balance over your outside ski (usually the downhill ski, always the outside ski).

 

When things go right, think back about exactly what you did right.  Make a mental checklist for yourself of the basics...weight on the center of your feet and pressing against the boot tongues, weight over the outside ski & light on the inside ski, hips & shoulders facing the outside ski, hands a bit forward & out to the sides in a natural balancing position, etc.  Put these in numerical order for which are most important for you.  When things don't go right, stop, go back to your number one on your list, and get each thing right, one at a time.

 

We borrowed The Yikes! Zone through an interlibrary loan from our local public library.  Worth reading!--get it.  One basic to remember...try new things on familiar terrain, and ski new terrain with familiar skills.  Do not try new skills on new terrain.

Really good info. There are days I'm going, ok that was a great run, what did I do different? I will now try harder to make a mental note of what I'm doing and see if I can piece it together. I will also check with my library about the The Yikes Zone. Thanks for the help!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinF 

 

I have seen several references to "The Yikes Zone" book here on this thread.  As others have commented; it's hard to find, and outrageously expensive to purchase.  I'd like to recommend an alternative:  Inner Skiing.  It really helped my scaredy-cat nature immensely.

Thanks. That's much cheaper!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Louie 

 

 

Well I think you should read this, and PM me if you have any questions. (Then get up with SkiSpirit and fly out in April)

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/81126/announcing-cubefest#post_1064634

Wow that sounds like an incredible deal. Thanks for letting me know about it.
 

T-Square,

   I agree that "In the Yikes Zone" is like a reference book.  Unfortunately, its out of print, that's why people are selling it on Amazon for $193. 

   I have attended Mermer's fear clinic and she had some copies of the book available which she sold for their original price + shipping. I don't know whether she still has books available.  Perhaps Epic could contact her and see if any books are still availabe.  Ski Diva has at least one copy of the book that circulates among its members.  I'll bet there are Epic members who might really appreciate that!

I can only share my similar experience.  I met my wife at 39 who was competing in master racing and it became quite clear to me that if I didn't learn to ski, I was going to be a very lonely camper every weekend from December to April.  I always swore I was never going to "go hurtling down a mountain on 2 sticks of wood" as I have a fear of heights and falling.  Let's face it, skiing is not a natural act ;-), but low and behold I now ski about 20-25 days per year including a week of skiing on the big hills out west.

When I first started, a green run was terrifying to me and a blue was right our of the question.  What I found was that is was just a matter of time, learning proper technique, getting used to faster speeds and steeper pitches combined with taking regular lessons.  I started out as a level 4 skier when I joined our ski club at 40 and with regular lesson have moved up to a level 6.  For the first time ever at 42 I went down some true black runs in Sun Peaks this year.  I did them because I knew I could ski them properly and under control or I would never have attempted them.  I think a lot of people get hung up on saying "oh yah I went down a double black".  My question to them would be, did you ski them properly and under control and did you simply survive the run.

Like you I need someone to help push me out of my comfort zone (insert my ski instructing wife here), but it's ultimately my decision as to whether or not I ski that run.  I know I won't progress without leaving my confort zone, but it's a gradual process.  I've found that when I'm on a slope I'm comfortable with, I can ski it well.  As soon as I feel outside my comfort zone I tend to go into survival mode and my skiing suffers, but my comfort zone is constantly expanding and I'm sure yours will too.

I'm 43, been skiing all my life, average season of 75+ days.

Fear? Yes, means: Am I ready to do this?

Bad days? Yes, I feel great, hit the hill, fizzle - like I've never done it.

Thanks everyone for all your great ideas and insights. I really appreciate it. Before posting I really was ready to give up and now I'm more anxious than ever to get out there and try again.  We are planning on going night skiing next week, so I will let you all know how it goes. Wish me luck!

Hey! 

In terms of "forgetting" all of your muscle memory from the last time you skied - I think I know what you mean.  Here's something that really helps me.  Every single day that I ski, whether I have been on the slopes for the past 3 days, or it's been 8 months, I always start the day with the expectation that my first two runs are going to be crap, all devoted to just dusting off the cob webs and relearning what I know.  I think starting off with that expectation is really helpful, because instead of asking myself, "What am I doing wrong??" and freaking out about it, it's just an expectation that those first few runs are going to be rickety and then I am going to sky rocket back to where I left off last time.  Somewhere at the end of that second run or so, there's a moment where things just click and I'm back. 

Here is another thing I am wondering about.  How well do you feel that your skis and boots are suited to you?  Your gear can make a whole lot of difference in skiing.  I don't like to suggest that people go out and buy a whole new rig, because ski stuff is expensive!  However, a pair of skis that are tailored to your ability level can make a huge difference to your comfort level and your confidence level on skis.  Ditto with boots.  The fact that you talk about your frustration and feeling "out of control" makes me wonder if your gear is making a difference.  I started skiing on 10 year old Volkl Racing skis.  The day I bought new skis (appropriate to my level) and put them on, I was like a different skier and my confidence and willingness to take risks took off.  Suddenly I could think about staying forward, picking up speed, carving, because I wasn't on skis that would deliver me to my deathbed when I tried to do one of these things :-) 

Skiing is hard, particularly if you pick it up in adulthood and are not naturally athletic.  But it is normal for everyone, natural athletes included, to have good and bad days.

For me, 90% of skiing is mental.  I am intensely acrophobic.  I can't climb a ladder, for instance.  Spiral staircases (or any staircase you can see through) really sketch me out.  So I have to work hard to keep the fear under control when I'm skiing.

I have to start the day off on an easy run, and then progressively build in difficulty to maintain my composure and confidence.  Even if I've skied well the weekend before, I need to start easy and build up again.   If I bite off too much, too early in the day, I run the risk of panicking and seemingly forgetting everything I've ever learned.

I've always been a naturally athletic person and I do a lot of sports.  I did sporadic skiing starting at age 17, but didn't go enough to get beyond bunny hill and snowplowing.  I didn't really get to where I could buy equipment and dedicate myself to becoming a good skier until age 54 or 55.  I was frustrated that unlike other sports, I didn't become an expert skier quickly.  I will tell you flat out my somewhat slower progress (compared to most people)  was almost entirely mental and self induced.  After a good bit of practice, I got my balance and confidence and now I can parallel turn and my form is really quite good at this point.  But I'm still held back somewhat in terms of speed, and I know it's because at my current age of 59, I don't want to get hurt and have to stop skiing!  That's purely it.  I'm a careful skier, but I did learn that what helped me progress was:  good, comfortable boots, good skis, good and warm clothing so I don't get cold, occasional ski lessons and LOTS of mileage.  It's all about mileage to get comfortable, especially if you are a somewhat apprehensive skier.  I'm not sure I will ever be one of those very secure, super fast skiers you see tearing down the hill, but I've amazed myself at how good I've been able to become at this stage of life, and I'm pretty happy with my accomplishment.  I went from being afraid of skiing to absolutely loving it.  I went from awkward snowplowing and wedge turns to parallel turns.  I've proved to myself that I can handle most any slope and nothing frightens me any more.  However, I don't especially like the steep, challenging runs so I generally don't go there.  I can do bumps, but don't go out of my way to find them.  For me, skiing is about going where my comfort level is and enjoying the heck out of that.  My husband is a better, faster skier than I am and he's always trying to get me to challenge myself with harder slopes.  Sometimes I do and that's a good thing, but I've learned to stop worrying about getting good enough to do just the hard stuff.  That's not where my main enjoyment of skiing is!  I want to keep skiing till I'm 80!

It's funny that you talk about the gear, because I've been wondering the same thing. I bought my skis and boots a couple of years ago at skidazzle. Being a newbie, I really was relying on the reccommendation of the salesman and the little bit of research I did. I'm still not sure if I have the right skis, but I know I'm in need of new boots. They have been painful since day one. So, for now, I'm looking for some new boots and maybe next season see about the skis.  Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memilyg 

 

Hey! 

 

In terms of "forgetting" all of your muscle memory from the last time you skied - I think I know what you mean.  Here's something that really helps me.  Every single day that I ski, whether I have been on the slopes for the past 3 days, or it's been 8 months, I always start the day with the expectation that my first two runs are going to be crap, all devoted to just dusting off the cob webs and relearning what I know.  I think starting off with that expectation is really helpful, because instead of asking myself, "What am I doing wrong??" and freaking out about it, it's just an expectation that those first few runs are going to be rickety and then I am going to sky rocket back to where I left off last time.  Somewhere at the end of that second run or so, there's a moment where things just click and I'm back. 

 

 

Here is another thing I am wondering about.  How well do you feel that your skis and boots are suited to you?  Your gear can make a whole lot of difference in skiing.  I don't like to suggest that people go out and buy a whole new rig, because ski stuff is expensive!  However, a pair of skis that are tailored to your ability level can make a huge difference to your comfort level and your confidence level on skis.  Ditto with boots.  The fact that you talk about your frustration and feeling "out of control" makes me wonder if your gear is making a difference.  I started skiing on 10 year old Volkl Racing skis.  The day I bought new skis (appropriate to my level) and put them on, I was like a different skier and my confidence and willingness to take risks took off.  Suddenly I could think about staying forward, picking up speed, carving, because I wasn't on skis that would deliver me to my deathbed when I tried to do one of these things :-) 

I know exactly what you mean. The mental part is what is so hard for me too. I think way too much and instead of enjoying what I'm doing I think of all the things that can go wrong. I love looking at the scenery, so when I start to freak, I stop and look around at the beauty around me and it calms me down. I've got to hand it to you for skiing when you are acrophobic, because that must be tough, but obviously you are doing it and that's great! 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrophobia 

 

Skiing is hard, particularly if you pick it up in adulthood and are not naturally athletic.  But it is normal for everyone, natural athletes included, to have good and bad days.

 

For me, 90% of skiing is mental.  I am intensely acrophobic.  I can't climb a ladder, for instance.  Spiral staircases (or any staircase you can see through) really sketch me out.  So I have to work hard to keep the fear under control when I'm skiing.

 

I have to start the day off on an easy run, and then progressively build in difficulty to maintain my composure and confidence.  Even if I've skied well the weekend before, I need to start easy and build up again.   If I bite off too much, too early in the day, I run the risk of panicking and seemingly forgetting everything I've ever learned.

 

 

 

 

 

I think when I started out, I thought that I would pick it up as fast as my 13 year old son did. (He's now going on the black diamonds with his dad.), but after reading these posts I realize that it's just going to take a little longer and I need to be patient.  I guess because I love skiing now, I can't imagine how much fun it must be when I can really ski well.  I know also that I  won't be one of those people zooming at high speeds and doing the daring stuff, but I can't wait until I can  just cruise most of the mountain with my family! I hope I'm out there skiing when I'm 80 too! Thanks for motivating me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMCM 

 

I've always been a naturally athletic person and I do a lot of sports.  I did sporadic skiing starting at age 17, but didn't go enough to get beyond bunny hill and snowplowing.  I didn't really get to where I could buy equipment and dedicate myself to becoming a good skier until age 54 or 55.  I was frustrated that unlike other sports, I didn't become an expert skier quickly.  I will tell you flat out my somewhat slower progress (compared to most people)  was almost entirely mental and self induced.  After a good bit of practice, I got my balance and confidence and now I can parallel turn and my form is really quite good at this point.  But I'm still held back somewhat in terms of speed, and I know it's because at my current age of 59, I don't want to get hurt and have to stop skiing!  That's purely it.  I'm a careful skier, but I did learn that what helped me progress was:  good, comfortable boots, good skis, good and warm clothing so I don't get cold, occasional ski lessons and LOTS of mileage.  It's all about mileage to get comfortable, especially if you are a somewhat apprehensive skier.  I'm not sure I will ever be one of those very secure, super fast skiers you see tearing down the hill, but I've amazed myself at how good I've been able to become at this stage of life, and I'm pretty happy with my accomplishment.  I went from being afraid of skiing to absolutely loving it.  I went from awkward snowplowing and wedge turns to parallel turns.  I've proved to myself that I can handle most any slope and nothing frightens me any more.  However, I don't especially like the steep, challenging runs so I generally don't go there.  I can do bumps, but don't go out of my way to find them.  For me, skiing is about going where my comfort level is and enjoying the heck out of that.  My husband is a better, faster skier than I am and he's always trying to get me to challenge myself with harder slopes.  Sometimes I do and that's a good thing, but I've learned to stop worrying about getting good enough to do just the hard stuff.  That's not where my main enjoyment of skiing is!  I want to keep skiing till I'm 80!