Strolz v. Surefoot?

 I have a pair of strolz boots and they are the best there is for my foot, but the one thing that is not very adjustable on this boot is forward lean.  if you need to have them uprighted, which I did, then they had to cut it inside and rivot, completely obliterating any flex.  Hopefully someday Strolz will improve their design so that lean is adjustable too.  But everything else about the boot is fantastic.

Hey borntoski,

Glad to hear you have a good fit...

I am the Pacific Northwest retailer of Strolz.  Both the FSX and the SST (new shell as of 2001) have forward lean adjustments.  Did you go to a authorized retailer for the adjustment?

With the older FSX a Strolz retailer can adjust the forward lean right on the boot. With the SST you need additional parts to make it work. I have never had to cut or rivet to get the proper stance for anyone...

Thanks,

Don
www.strolzskiboots.com

 Thanks for your comments on the forum.  Yes my fitter was trained and authorized strolz fitter.  He's been to Austria to their training there too. 

I can't remember all the details now.  I am high end skier, we chose the model that is not the red racing model but the black one just below it, can't remember the name..  There are many things going on with my foot, its not a simple solution.  I have opposing problems.  Fix one problem and it creates another, etc. One of my problems is very limited dorsiflexion.  In order to upright boots, most boots, including the strolz, have to have the back edge of the cuff trimmed off so that the cuff can move back enough.  Without this, I can't even keep my heel down, even after putting in heel lifts.   Inside the boot cuff there is this triangle shaped rubber thingy that kinda holds the cuff in place, you can replace this rubber thingee with a more or less stiff one to get more or less flex..  Its not clear to me exactly why, but after uprighting the boot for me, this contraption would not work.  So the cuff had to be rivoted to the shell.  

Pretty much every boot I have ever seen has similar problems except in crappy low end recreational boots.  My last boots also, had to be rivoted.  One guy here in Seattle tried to use heat to do it instead of a rivot, but destroyed the boots.  The problem with the rivot is that forward flex is quite literally zero with the rivot in there.  The tongue can flex forward if you buckle it loose enough, but the rest of the cuff doesn't move, which creates a bit of a disconnect between my ankle and the skis, especially since its looser at that point.  Its not ideal.  Strolz is probably the most adjustable of all boots, but this is one area they did not make it adjustable enough.  They should improve their design so that it can be uprighted without losing the functionality of the rubber contraption inside that connects the cuff to the rest of the shell.

Other than that, I still love them and can't see myself being in any other boots then strolz from here on out, but if they would just improve that design aspect, then they would be completely there for me.

borntoski,
remember that YOU are an indvidual and although the Strolz boot is a custom made very adjustable boot it has to function of the majority of the people using it, it sounds like your problem is pretty extreme and changes to the boot design to suit YOU may make the boot not as usable to others ....... it sounds as though your calf muscle binds on the back of the boot to help make the problem worse, riveting the cuff upright is one solution, but another is to have the top of the cuff flared backwards to accomodate the calf muscle where it hits the cuff, this allows you to weight the heel prior to the calf muscle loading against the back of the cuff

 The problem in my case is not a large calf.  Its limited dorsiflexion.  That boot does not upright very well, as is the case with most boots, as I said.  If Strolz really wants to own the adjustable boot market they should consider a redesign.  Don't get defensive about it.  

not defensive about it at all, the calf muscle does not have to be particualrily big to bind on the rear cuff if the flexion is limited... I don't sell strolz so have no influence on what they do or don't do with the design of their boots.... I do however fit a hell of a lot of ski boots every year, see a lot of people with limited dorsiflexion and understand fully what you would like to see, I just don't see a company changing their design to accomodate what they would consider a small part of the market as it may affect the performance of the boot in other ways for people without this problem.  changing a mould is not a simple job and it costs big money.... then you have to change the mould for each size..  a few months ago i was shown a new boot concept for 10/11 season by one of the major players in the ski boot market, i pointed out  what i considered to be a biomechanical problem with the design of the boot.... there was silence in the room followed by a swift e mail and phone call to varios bosses at head office... only 2 sizes of the mould had been produced and the change which was extremely minor cost around €15,000 to make.... i hate to think what it would have been if all 9 sizes of moulds had been produced

I should ask, is your limited flexion down to muscular tension of boney blockage at the head of the talus?

 Go to Daleboot in Salt Lake City.   If you fly int Salt Lake City They are on the way to either The Park City area or the Cottonwood Canyon areas.  They are the only true custom made boots made in The US  They guaranty the Boots for the life of the Boot.  All That at about 1/2 the price you would pay to get the full treatment from Surefoot or Strolz   
 
 If you have had good luck with surefoot that's great. Unfortunately  it's a roll of the dice with Surefoot. At $12.000 or more for a full custom package you would think that they would only hire the best boot-fitters they could find. Many of their employees know how to sell a the whole package. But they know very Little about fit. As others have said if you get the wrong guy you are not going to be happy. 
 IMHO your only choice in Daleboot or Strolz.  I don't work for Daleboot just very impressed with their products

 CEM, once upon a time we thought the world was flat too.  Anything is possible with a little ingenuity.

Strolz has gone out of their way to make a boot that is extremely adaptable.  Its an awesome product that leaves the other boots in the dust in this regard.   One area it falls a little short on is in its ability to be uprighted, which is not such an uncommon thing.   I've just spent a small fortune on my Strolz's so I will not be trying Dale boot anytime soon, but I will check them out when I'm in SLC because if they have a design that will accomodate my foot better then of course I should check it out.   My strolz was made in Park Ciy too.

I'm told my limited dorsiflexion is not something I can change through exercise...does that mean bone on bone?  

I will say these are the best boots I've had to date so far.  The absolutely only criticism I have is the fact that the cuff had to be rivoted to the spine in order to upright it.  Even if Strolz doesn't improve their design, I'm sure my  next pair would probably be Strolz again, unless Daleboot has a better design that way, which I will check out eventually.  I didn't know about them before.  

if you rhink about the surfaces we walk and run on (side walks, tarmac, concrete) the world is pretty flat ...that is why our bodies are as messed up as they are in many cases

sounds like you have a boney impingement stopping your ankle form flexing so stretching as you have been told will not help.... i personally would avoid thge dale boot for your situation, IMO there is far too much forward flex in the boot for you to apply presure to the ski without maxing out your ankle joint and causing pain...stick with the strolz and live with the need for it to be riveted, as you said it works for you and to be honest i don't think a modification like this is the end of the world

i said it before it all boils down to $$$$ when it comes to changing things

happy skiing

 CME you missed the point about the world being flat.  THINGS CAN BE IMPROVED.  Sometimes our limited understanding of the world can become changed and we can discover new and improved ways of doing things.  I am trying to inspire anyone at Strolz that might be reading this to keep designing.  I believe it can be done, and why not?

and you missed my point... IT COSTS MONEY,  we are in a recession, boot manufacturers are cutting back, not making changes which cost money


going back to the earth being flat..... i think we were all better off before we conctreted the world over and started wearing crap shoes


TBH i'm done with trying to get through to you, you may hope it is going to happen, you may wish it will happen , I wish you well with that, but being perfectly honest and realistic IT PROBABLY WON'T HAPPEN

I'm pretty confident this thread will be around long after the current recession is over.  You never know who might get the feedback one way or another.  Cheers CEM, no offense intended mate.

none taken ski happy

CEM brings up an excellent point here. I found that most skiers do not understand the value of a real bootfitter, sadly their experience has been limited to "bootsellers" as access to a real fitter is less common. Not taking anything away from Strolz or Dale, they make a great product and are a solution for many people. That said, a true bootfiter is going to select a shell that matches the customers foot as close as possible and then make the needed mods to the shell as needed. This may mean grinding, stretching, flairin the cuff, changing forward lean and/or ramp angle etc. It also might mean for/aft and lateral alignment is addressed (this is often an extra charge). In my shop, 90% of the boots I sell need some degree of shell work and 75% need a good deal of shell work to be right for the customer. Comfort is one thing, but comfort AND performance is entirely another. In the end, finding a good fitter is #1, whether they sell Strolz, Dale, or whoevers boots. To the OP you seem to have gotten lucky with your Surefoots, from what I have seen at my shop that is not the norm, take it for what it is worth.

Strolz sounds like a great boot.  I skied last winter in St. Anton and Lech, but didn't notice their shop.

I also have to put in a good word for Surefoot.  

I bought a custom fit liner and boot in Verbier 2 years ago, after a particularly rough day off-piste in my Nordicas.  The bootfitter was excellent -- I have had nothing but great praise for the fit/comfort/performance of this solution.  I haven't needed any adjustments.

I can't say if I was lucky or the quality of staff was higher in Switzerland in general, having never been in a Surefoot shop in the U.S.

Yo

 

Pretty sure Gorsuch in Vail is a Strolz dealer. 

I've foamed about a hundred pair of Strolz during my days as a boot fitter...it is without a doubt the best foam liner on the market...follow the steps, prepare the foot, etc and the results were always excellent.  I've also foamed a few dozen Conformable liners...the results were less consistent, the foam sets up harder, I've had tubes pull out of the liner while foaming (BIG mess) and I don't think the foam tongue is a good idea. 

I skied in a Strolz for 4 years, extra hard shell (purple, then red).  While the fit of the liner was amazingly precise, I kept cracking the lower shells on the boot...3 lowers on my right foot and 2 on the left...by the time I was on lower #2 on both feet I was no longer working at the Strolz dealer (Jack Frost in Bethel, ME) and was living in CO...so getting new shells was a bit of a hassle...couldn't just replace them out of stock.  While they fit great and skied very wel, they were like trying to get your foot into a bear trap to get on and off...and I was in my 20s at the time...not a geriatric weakling, and despite the extra hard shells, the flex was too soft.  So for my next boot I got into a Nordica...but with a Strolz liner (bought from my old shop).  I skied in the nordys for 3 years, then got a Salomon, moved the Strolz liners into the Salomon and skied in them for 4 seasons...40-50 days per year...so about 300-350 days out of the liners.  Now I'm in a Fischer X100 boot with a ZipFit liner...the fit isn't as precise as the Strolz, but they've got a great heel hold and I can always add more material to tighten the fit if I want.  I'd still do a Strolz liner if given the chance, but I've been happier in other shells. 

I thought I would catch a few of you up to date, there is a newer shell design since the older FSX that I believe most of you are refering to.  The new SST is much lighter, a whole lot easier to get in and out of and does not have the flex/incline devise on the back, which added quite a bit of weight.  The SST is much sleeker and has solved quite a few of the issues that where a problem on the FSX.

Visit my web site for photos.

To a deep (and comfortable) winter...

Don
www.strolzskiboots.com

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At the bottom of the mechanism on the back of the boot is a hole with a narrow slotted post that can be turned to adjust the upright position of the stance on my particular pair of Strolz.

This is the new SST (actually it came out in 2001) however this year they changed the buckles (pictured here) which added a little more adjustment range, especially in the cuff.

There is three separate flex adjustments so even though they took off the flex/incline devise (pictured above), which took off quite a bit of weight, it still has plenty of flex/incline adjustment with the new design.  The liners have been updated, not so much in function but cosmetic.

The SST shell and liner - like all ski boots - can be modified/stretched to accomidate a faily wide foot.  I just foamed someone with 115mm wide feet (after shell and liner modifications), but that is as far as I would go.  Anything wider I would use the FSX.



Note: The FSX is still available for super wide feet (EEEEE), and in the 15 & 16 sizes. 
The SST is available up to size 14.