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HOW TO USE WINTERSTEIGER STONE GRINDER?!

#1
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1/20/09 at 10:39pm
  • Joined: January 2009
  • Post Count: 8
I have fortunately acquired a wintersteiger mcr 800 stone grinder, base bevel belt and side belt grinders. They are in my garage. In addition, I acquired a fontaine belt grinder and Big Rub friction waxer. I live in Lake Tahoe but have no formal ski tuning experience. I am learning to tune by practice and error but have many questions about the use of the base belt and stone grinder use. Is there anybody out there with experience with this machine or something similar???? There really are no manuals available that i can find.

for example; what is the best sequence for automated tuning?? base bevel, side bevel , base belting then stone grind and polish/wax??????

Proper weights for both stone and belt??

suggestions on feeding skiis thru auto feeder???

care and maintenance???


why does the base bevel belt cut aggressively into the base ptex??? I want to bevel onlythe base edge...

any suggestionsw on how to keep the coolant from freezing in my cold garage????

please reply with any info on the use of any of these machines!!!

I am excited but feel terribly under qualified in their precise use
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#2
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1/21/09 at 8:10am
  • Joined: March 2006
  • Location: Aspen
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Not to discourage your hopes but I am a bit leary to make suggestions as you have no training on these machines or in ski tuning. These are pretty dangerous for the untrained and you can really get hurt (I've heard of people losing fingers). I might suggest you ask around and see if one of the local shops will (for the price of a few beers) give you a personal clinic.

Some general points to your questions - the bases are likely getting cut by the base edger because the ski guide is not set properly and the bases are running over the belt thereby getting cut. When you say coolant, do you mean emulsion? The purpose of the emulsion is to lubricate while cutting edge and bases and shouldn't be store in freezing conditions. Do you have manuals?
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#3
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1/21/09 at 9:11am
  • Joined: January 2009
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wintersteiger tuner in garage, thanks for info

Thanks for the input. It is nice to have a dialogue with someone on this. I should clarify things. I have owned these machines for 3-4 years and have now tuned 200-300 pairs of skiis on them. Yes I tune my stuff frquently and have become a neighborhood hangout!! I understand well that They are quite dangerous and require constant attention to operate. thanks for the warning!! (I am a doctor and see trauma regularly).

I said coolant but meant emulsion. I am currently using the organic emulsion from SVST. However I have added ethlene glycol to prevent the system from freezing. My garage gets very cold in winter and is expensive to heat. Wintersteiger had no suggestions here other than antifreeze. However Woody has generally been very helpful.

I have visited and spent time with 2 shops in truckee to get a basic understanding of these machines and the tuning process. But i have other questions...


The base beveler arched plate is centered under the belt, but it seems to over cut a bit. How much weight is necessary for this part of machine???

I have the large green arched skid plate for feeding in skiis, but do not clamp it on the ski itself. It works fine for salomon but often fits poorly for marker and others. I can not afford to buy a new skid. Is there any secrets to getting it to sit on ski better??? Of course the brakes are off.

Manuals... I would love the manuals.. The mcr 800 manual is horrible. it is old very short and not very informative at all. The fontaine has no manual and they are out of business.

Do you know of any GOOD instructional videos on the overall technique of ski tuning, machine and hand techniques???

In what order do you tune the ski??? Base Edges, side edges, base belt, stone grind, then finish work???

Thanks for any and all support on this.
Larry Silver
Truckee CA silver.larry@sbcglobal.net
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#4
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1/21/09 at 10:15am
  • Joined: August 2005
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May want to do a few other things also. There are regular clinics that Wintersteiger offers, so find out what the requirements are for signing up and attending one.

Wintersteiger also has a forum that you may want to at least read through and pick topics that are close- you may learn something. Not sure if they allow everyone and anyone to sign up and post questions or not though.

http://tuningforum.wintersteigerusa.com/forum

Finally since you have a number of shops and resorts with rental and service available in your area, maybe trying to find an employee that would be looking for some spare cash (even in the off season) to come over and teach you a few tricks of the trade.
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#5
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1/21/09 at 11:51am
  • Joined: January 2009
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wintersteiger

Awesome, Thanks

Larry
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#6
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1/21/09 at 8:59pm
  • Joined: March 2006
  • Location: Aspen
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Ok, I'm quite relieved. From reading your intial post I was afraid you were a complete rookie to tuning. I've spent a lot of time tuning and used many different machines but unfortunately, I've never used the machine you have. Therefore, I'm not exactly sure about the details on the adjustments. Rshea had a good suggestion about contacting Wintersteiger and looking into attending one of their clinics. And most techs who've got significant experience should be able to give you some pointers when they're looking at the machine. They all have a lot of similarities so a good tech should be able to work it out.

I would say post some pics and maybe we can help get you dialed in a bit. But, no promises from me on that
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#7
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1/23/09 at 9:31am
  • Joined: January 2009
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thanks, and yes the wintersteiger forums are pretty as well. larry
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#8
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1/23/09 at 11:57am
  • Joined: January 2009
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stone vs base bevel belt???

Okay, so I just tunes 6 more. got things fairly dailed in with the structure and bevels. but ...

If I base bevel belt then stone I end up with some structure on the metal edges...


If I stone grind then base bevel belt I end up belting some of the structure off near the edges. this is with no weight on the base bevel belt at all.

where is the answer???
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#9
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1/24/09 at 9:25am
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  • Location: Aspen
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ah, the age old problem. The mechanical edgers always have issues with hitting the bases. If possible I'd really suggest hand edging everything. It tends to be a better and more consistent edge and less damaging to the base than high speed belt
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#10
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1/24/09 at 6:42pm
  • Joined: October 2005
  • Location: Peninsula, Ohio
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Besides the cool factor, why do you want all those machines? I have a family of 8 and hand tune everything. It probably takes much less time. Besides how often do bases need to be stone ground, once maybe twice a season.
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#11
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1/25/09 at 2:47pm
  • Joined: January 2009
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cool factor!!!

according to wintersteiger the problem is that iam using a standard blue belt. the aluminum oxide red belts are designed for base bevel use and remain concave while spinning therefore they dont cut into the base at all. i got one for $17 so i guess we will see soon.
wintersteiger also said always do stone structure first then go back to the base bevel then side bevel.

Heh machine vs hand? no comparison if the skiis are worked over. machine is far superior in my opinion. besides it is way more fun to tune with the wintersteiger than by hand (and way faster). and as for the "cool factor" yep I am the most popular guy in the neighborhood!! anyone can get a tune and wax for a bottle of vodka or 6 pack.
cheers
larry
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#12
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1/25/09 at 6:34pm
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Location: Collingwood, Ontario
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great machine ya got, you havn't said anything about detuning yer base belts though or what grits they are, they are too aggressive when new and have to be mellowed out with a stone.
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#13
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1/28/09 at 9:22pm
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heh well all of us need a good stone to mellow out...
yep she's running great. i just put on the aluminum oxide base belt today. and yes I cut it down quite a bit with a stone. it is an 80 grit so it is aggresive indeed. just the weight of the ski is sufficient. dont need the feed roller,]
cheers larry
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#14
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1/29/09 at 4:23pm
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Location: Collingwood, Ontario
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haha - ididn't mean it that way, but the way you put it - i'd have to agree. can i ask how much you got it for? and how? did you have to upgrade your hydro? and a phase converter lying around too? not to geek out again but i like the 120 or 150's better - them 80's are knuckle grinders fer sure
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#15
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2/9/09 at 8:53pm
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Yep the 80 grit is too course wish i had bought a finer grit.

anyways  I paid $600 for the wintersteiger mcr 800 with a bunch of belts and 2 stones.  yep I paid $500 more for the 3 phase convertor and 200 more to my electrician buddy to wire a subpanel in the garage.

i  had also bought a fontaine wide belt grinder and big rub friction waxer nfor $500.

 

it hasw been well worth it just for the fun aspect alone.

cheers

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#16
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2/23/09 at 10:57am
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Location: Collingwood, Ontario
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wowsers $600 bucks eh!  nice score -  sounds like you have a nice setup there!

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#17
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10/8/09 at 12:51am
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To ski tune you sharpen outside edges first,that puts the burr pointing down which is bad, this gives you a very grabby edge and is why it's done first. Next you bevel bottomside edges careful not to cut into the base material that's bad, you want to sharpen metal only here. Finally you finish the base with the stone, to much weight here will give you a hollow base and that's bad too, you'll have to  experiment with the weight here because each ski manufacturer uses different materials and the bases will react to weight differently. the trick here is to remove enough base to make it perfectly flat and not remove the beveled metal edge you just did, this method will place any burr pointing out and this will help the edges cut into the snow. Finally you need to de-tune the ski. rule of thumb here is 2-4-6 inchs and that means from the front flat of the ski where it hits the snow not the tip, hardstone/file the first 2 inchs of the skis front edge both inner and outer, then gently remove some of the bite from the next 2 inchs with a soft stone use several passes here, and soft stone the next 2 inchs or so couple of passes is all youll need here.  De-tuning will vary depending on the skiers skills, the less de-tuneing you do the sharper the edges also the grabbier the ski will be. Finally de-tune the back 1 inche of the ski with a file or hard stone and soft stone the next 1 inch again don't count the taper at the back.  Finally take a soft stone the length of both edges to remove a bit of the burr just 1 pass each side and fine file the back metal plate on the bottom of the ski to remove burrs only.
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#18
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10/8/09 at 1:00am
  • Joined: October 2009
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try a 120 grit that's what we use. 80 grit will rip your ski to shreds
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