Time for the annual snow tire thread

Don't laugh, but I have an '07 Lexus GS350 AWD that I plan to use as my ski car in PA and VT this season. Will snows make a big difference, even with AWD? Recommendations? Should I get dedicated wheels? And Phil, you can pm me if you want.

get the snows

Snows make a huge difference, and in cold weather in general when there is no snow. The new rims are up to you, but keep in mind that you will likely need to get new TPMS sensors.

YES, good snows will make a huge difference, no matter if 4WD, AWD, FWD and RWD. And you need them on all four corners!

My personal preference are Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60's on a dedicated set of steel rims. And please get the proper size for driving in snow, i.e. narrower than your summer performance tires.

I'll take a FWD with the above over an AWD with all season tires anyday. (only limitation is ground clearance). Spend the money, you will not be sorry

What Rossi said.

Yes tehy will make a difference. For you I'd say get a tire more like the Blizzak LM-22 since you will be mostly on dry roads and driving highway miles to get to your skiing.

edit: and yeah, get dedicated rims if you want to go down a size for your snows. For example, 225/45 - 17 for summer 205/55 - 16 for winter.

I'm going to use my Michelin Alpin PA2's for there 4th winter this year.

I drive about 25,000 miles a year most of them in winter. I swear they out handle my summer only Dunlap's.


Oh Yea, I had to stop laughing so I could type this. LOL

know your lug pattern and offset. Craigslist has some deals

I was waiting for this thread to come up, great.

Ok, so not all snow tires are made the same. In NM I will be driving 150 miles on dry roads and then 15 on a snowy road. I guess I should look at your recommendation more than Rossi's? which other tires compare on that category?

One more thing about the rims. Do I really need to get dedicated ones? If I understand your post, if I want to go down a size (as recommended) I would definitely need new rims. Is that correct?

Nokian also makes saw awesome tires. check out the web.

In some cases you can get smaller tires, (thinner) on your current rims.

I use the same rims all year round. 05 Subaru Legacy GT

215/45-17 both winter and summer. But it is recommended that you run a thinner tire in the snow.

My thought is, really how often do you drive in snow or unplowed snow ?

I have had these Michelin's in some pretty nasty conditions.

The main thing I have taught my son about winter driving. It's about getting there, not getting there first. Use your head, it's cold outside, it's warm in the car, keep it on the road.

I ran Dunlop Winter Sport M3's on my Audi A6 and loved 'em

Highly recommended for your GS350 as well. They turn in surprisingly good performance on dry pavement as well as great traction on the snow.

Dunlop's got a new winter performance tire out this year - SP Winter Sport 3D. Look nice, but won't get to try them though as my new ride's a Q7 ... gotta look for truck tires

If you have TPMS and you get new rims, you will not only have to get 4 more TPMS sensors, you will probably have to get your TPMS computer 'reinitialized' every time you change rims (twice a year).

The Honda dealer charges $90 to reinitialize the TPMS computer.

It's a bit of a trade off. You have to set the priorities that work for your particular driving conditions. The WS-60's are their best "pure" snow tire. Very good in accumulated, fresh snow, tradeing a bit off in dry road performance. Where I live it's very hilly and the plows might not get to it until WAY after I need to climb the final 9% grade up to my house. So for me, with a FWD and for the Bimmer 330Ci (RWD) these tires ALWAYS get me home. For your needs, if you really have mostly highway (read plowed) roads and then a few miles in more challenging conditions with AWD, the more Euro style snows may be the ticket. Even going through the trouble of remounting and balancing twice per year (EVERY year) may be something you'd be willing to do. I'd still look into the possibility of getting a slightly narrower tire IF it can safely work on your rim width. Talk with a GOOD tire dealer (Tire Rack is one), and see what your other options may be.

Get the snows. Get new rims. Get a set of 4. Call Tire Rack, tell them what kind of driving you will be doing, and they will make a recommendation and put together a package for you.

I would get a set of Nokians on a second set of rims. I'm currently shopping for some too.

Here's my take on snow tires. I live in Truckee CA; we have snow on the road most of the winter. I switch to dedicated SNOW TIRES, on stock rims. SNOW's are MUCH superior to mud+snows, as fitted to many vehicles.

If you are on snow for more than 50% of the time, a studless ice tire like the Blizzak WS60 is the best. If you are only on snow zero to 20% of the time, get a performance snow tire like the LM25.

I go down one width size with snows. See the size chart diect from Bridgestone for the WS60's at:
http://www.bridgestonetire.com/tires...roduct_ID=2007

When going down in width, select a size that is as close as possible to the 'rolling diameter' or RPM (revs per mile) as your stock tire.

Tirerack has all you want to know about winter tires. They have many real test results at:
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/wintertesting.jsp
Check the 'The Continuing Revolution in Winter Tires ' at
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=65

They also have recommendations for down-widthing.

Tirerack also has customer survey results at:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...sp?type=W&VT=C
The WS60 comes out best for dedicated 'studless ice and snow' tires.

Check their site also for comparisons of 'studless ice and snow' versus studed tires. The studless ones win. Studs are only good on ice, and don't help on soft snow, and the studded tires they tested where worse that the 'studless ice and snow' even on ice.

Remember that snows are generally softer than standard tires, so they wear quicker, and will be noisier.

Thats my 10c worth!!! - hope it helps

Check out this link - excellent source for snow tire info:

http://www.snowtire.info/forum/portal.php?page=6

Falcon_o aka Charlie

PS - I run 4 studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta snows on my 98 Durango driving primarily between Rochester, NY and Killington. I have found no better on icy and deep snow roads. Definately you should get 4 snows and I would recommend mounting on separate STEEL rims as aluminum have problems with winter salt and can lose their seal.

No. You may find it more convenient or possibly a better value. Figure about 75 bucks one time for mounting versus 75 bucks twice per year. Buying an additional set of wheels also means your summer wheels aren't exposed to the brutal deicers and abrasives used on roads in winter.

If you decide to get additional wheels, the easiest route is to buy new steel wheels. I use an extra set of alloys I picked up for 15 bucks a piece from a local u-pull. They are pretty ugly, but I haven't had any issues with sealing. NM doesn't eat wheels the way the Northeast can. I've had the problem falcon_o refers to up there.

A set of WS-60s is probably only good for one or two seasons in NM knowing how much you ski. My recent results with Blizzaks and Graspic (the predecessor WS-50, which I haven't seen suggested to be much different in treadwear from the -60, and the Graspic DS-2 from Dunlop which isn't quite the performer but is a bit less spendy) are something like 1 year, 1 year, 2 years, 1 year. Something with a harder compound for the full tread depth may be a better tradeoff. I went old-school last year with basic snow tires with studs, and I was impressed with the low wear rate.

WRT my wear performance, it may be worth noting that I agressively downsize. And yeah, you might be able to narrow up your tire choice without changing wheels...depends on what is available.

The best are the Finnish Nokian Hakkapeliitta's - I have tried everything over the years. Blizzaks, Michelin Arctic Alpines, Gislaved Frosts (Great), Metzler Alpins (Great) among others but the Nokians are the best yet- Simply amazing traction and performance.

I need to buy new tires this winter...like now...it's snowing outside! I was going to get my usual Blizzak's, this year the WS-60s (I drive 90% on snow). I go down in width but use the standard rims ($40 to change summer to winter and visa-versa). In California, CALTRANS uses lots of grit, no salt.

I would like to find out more about your Nokians. Did you get a studded tire or one of the studless R or RSi? Did you by chance, put them on a Subie? How long did they last?

I've had a few sets of Hakka Q's -- a non-studded tire. They're fine, but unless you can get a good sale on them I don't think they're worth the extra $$. I have some pretty moderate priced snows for our Odyssey now...I forget what they are without going to look, but I'd say they were $30 to $40 less per tire than the Q's and in my experience just as good in the snow, but a bit noisier on dry pavement.

Still have Q's on our Forester, but will probably get something else next time. Try to find a large tire center that carries lots of brands and has the on-site for you to see and feel the difference in tread pattern and compound...and usually these places have very good prices on steel rims.

Haven't tried any of the studded Nokian tires.

Put these Dunlop Radial Rover A/T on the 4WD truck last fall. They are very affordable I've also got 4 chains, but haven't needed those.

AWD doesn't mean all wheel traction. The tires still need to transfer your driving to the road. Dedicated snow tires have softer rubber compounds that grip way better than all seasons or performance summer tires. They wear faster too, but it's part of the game.

The low profile performance tires have abysmal traction in the winter. If you get different rims it almost always makes sense to go with higher profile tire on a smaller diameter rim, if you can find a workable combo.

Only you can decide where on the multitude of tradeoffs in tires is right for you. Just recognize that no tire does everything well.

Don't forget technique in winter driving counts as much as the tires you have.

Ok,

I just did a shit load of research into this, as I drive the snowiest highway in the world every day.

I was reseraching truck tires but most of this is the same since they make the same tires in a version for your suzuki

Bar none the best snow tires out there are Nokian's Pick your posing from the Hakkapalitta series... there the shit. I have had these in the past on my cars and swear by them... They are pricey but worth every cent..... unfortunatly as far as truck sizing goes there cost prohibative.

Next up would be the Toyo M55's This is what the ski area was using... but they changed the tread pattern this year so they are switching. ( tuck only)

After that then your best bet for a car would be the Hankooks. Same tread pattern as the Nokians.... but supposedly the rubber isnt quite as good.

For a truck your next bet would be the Cooper M+S. Close tread pattern to the Nokikans..... have very soft grippy rubber. I went with these.

I have had the Michilan LTX before but they SUCK compared to the tires above.... at least in the wet pnw.

I am on my second set of Blizacks w50's remember if the temp gets above 50 ANY of the real snows dissolve also a real soft tire will affect handling. My second set is from a company called Elderado, M&S a spin off of Goodrich, they stay on until around Xmas , then the Blizacks go on until Easter. My tire store says not much differance between w-50 and w -60. I live in Steamboart Springs.

snow tires

evansilver:
we live in Northern NJ and have found that the Michelin X-ice is a very good compromise tire. When new, they were actually quieter than the summer tires that came off! Just stay away from studded tires, you'll regret them with the noise they produce, and they suck on dry or just wet pavement. With the newer tread compounds you don't need studs unless you are on snow covered roads more than 75% of the time. Also, if you ever have a problem with the tires, you will have an easier time getting a replacement with either the Michelin or the Bridgestone. The Nokians may be excellent tires, but they just don't have the distribution network.
If you check around, you'll probably find it will cost about $100 for mounting and balancing every season (since you have alloy rims) so a dedicated set is an investment the quickly pays for itself, plus if you get a jack and an electric impact wrench you can save the hassle of dragging everything down to the tires dealer. I have 5 cars that I do a changeover every year; imagine the cost and hassle of dragging all that stuff to the tire dealer and back? It takes me about 20 minutes per car in my driveway.

I have Nokian Hakkapolita 2 on both my Audi A6 Quattro and my Mercedes 4matic, Studded on the Audi. STS tire carries them and I had Tirerack ship steel rims for the audi directly to them and the tires were mounted when I pulled up. For the Mercedes, I bought a second set of rims from E-bay for the Mercedes and mounted the Hakka 2. I swear the traction on dry pavement is better than my high performance summer Pirellis, just a little noisier. IMHO, the difference in traction between studded and non-studded Hakka2 is minimal. I can't get either to slip a mm on ice. I do 35K a year, most in winter and the studded are 4 winter's old with 95% dry driving, and they still look good.

Let me just make an emphatic point here. Snow tires instead of all-seasons is an optional and rewarding choice for most. Actual high performance summer tires are absolutely useless in even small quantities of snow, and it would be irresponsible to have them fitted during winter months.

/figured this out the hard way early one October. oops.

Very happy with Continental Winter Viking 1 on the Avensis wagon - 205/60/R16Q. They went on last Thursday and stay on until after Easter. In comparison with summer tyres - I couldn't drive the 50 yards from the house to the garage even with the neighbour pushing on Thursday. Changed the front tyres and woomph, there it was. Then I changed the other two.

Have had Gislaved Nord Frosts (IIs and IIIs) on three cars. Great grip, but they shed studs at an alarming rate!

And GET RIMS. There's a good reason cars are always sold with two sets in Norway.

Another +1 for dedicated set of winter tires and rims. It is by far the least expensive winter "insurance" one can get, considering one off-road excursion can easily cost far more in repairs than the cost of them.

I have run Michelin Alpins, then Arctic Alpins (the former being the better performing) and more recently Toyo Garit HT's on my Subaru WRX. They never let me down, even in heavy snow. With my new Legacy I picked up a set of Nokian RSi which I am looking forward to trying out.

I think they use snow tires in Canada. I found this police chase video eh?