Knee Binding ???

#1

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10/21/08 at 9:40am

Rossi Smash
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What's the story here? Anyone seen a pair of these yet?

The M970 is a 5-12 DIN, looks interesting

Any feedback yet? Price? Availability?

#2

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10/21/08 at 9:49am

Philpug
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Whiteroom is a dealer, 495.00 is retail

Click. Point. Chute.

#3

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10/21/08 at 9:50am

krp8128
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That looks pretty plasticy..

But it also looks like a 3d render to me.

09/10 Ski Days: 00

#4

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10/21/08 at 9:52am

comprex
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It looks like my old G95s. Which is not a bad thing. I'm kinda intrigued by the T-slot up front.

anticooler than you

#5

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10/21/08 at 10:44am

Sinecure
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Are they out now? I'd heard about them a year or two ago, but thought they were still in development.

Where's the AT version?

#6

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10/21/08 at 2:32pm

Philpug
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Quote:

Originally Posted by comprex

It looks like my old G95s. Which is not a bad thing. I'm kinda intrigued by the T-slot up front.

Maybe because the designer also designed your old G95's

.

Click. Point. Chute.

#7

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10/21/08 at 2:43pm

Rossi Smash
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They look like they put the boot WAY up there....

Mega riser thing going on

#8

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10/21/08 at 3:11pm

mudfoot
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Looks like a bad attempt at creating the release charateristics of a Look turntable.

#9

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10/21/08 at 3:12pm

Richie-Rich
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How are they different than the full diagonal heel Tyrolias?

#10

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10/21/08 at 3:30pm

Philpug
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie-Rich

How are they different than the full diagonal heel Tyrolias?

Simple, Tyrolia's are designed to work with a forward twisting fall, these are designed to work in a rearward twisting fall. Downward pressure in the heel is turned into lateral pressure. Thinking about how people fall now vs. when we skied on straight skis, it really makes sense.

Click. Point. Chute.

#11

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10/21/08 at 3:46pm

comprex
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I still want to know what that thing under the AFD does.

anticooler than you

#12

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10/21/08 at 3:59pm

Rise To The Top
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I know the owner of that company, hehe... There are alot of hidden features that make it ALOT better than conventional bindings, I got a whole lesson on them, and got to see a pre-production version. Not too shabby.

So I heard you like Mudkips...

#13

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10/21/08 at 7:52pm

RiDeC58
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Previous thread:
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread...t=knee+binding

Web Site:
http://www.kneebinding.com/index.html

Momentum is a terrible thing to waste.

#14

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10/21/08 at 8:04pm

comprex
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug

Simple, Tyrolia's are designed to work with a forward twisting fall, these are designed to work in a rearward twisting fall. Downward pressure in the heel is turned into lateral pressure. Thinking about how people fall now vs. when we skied on straight skis, it really makes sense.

It makes intuitive sense up to a point. Then you realise that the binding has to reject rolling the skis on edge while pressuring the heel as a release factor. Tricky. Interesting.

anticooler than you

#15

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10/21/08 at 8:08pm

Richie-Rich
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Do you think a back seat skier might find him or herself markering out?

#16

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10/22/08 at 3:16am

Trekchick
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie-Rich

Do you think a back seat skier might find him or herself markering out?

Don't ski in the back seat

Surviving is essential, thriving is incredible!
EpicSki Academy

#17

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10/22/08 at 3:59am

RiDeC58
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trekchick

Don't ski in the back seat

Well, what do you want him to do in the back seat???? Remember, this is Richie--he has a really BIG back seat.

Momentum is a terrible thing to waste.

#18

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10/22/08 at 6:18am

U.P. Racer
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie-Rich

Do you think a back seat skier might find him or herself markering out?

I love when intermediate skiers that ski 5 times a year like to rip on Marker bindings so they can be like the cool kids....

#19

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10/22/08 at 8:13am

mudfoot
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug

Downward pressure in the heel is turned into lateral pressure. Thinking about how people fall now vs. when we skied on straight skis, it really makes sense.

This could be a great teaching aid. If you get your weight back your skis fly off. From what I can tell, back seat skiing is a fault shared by the majority of intemediate skiers.

As my old buddy the K-rod says: "Ski fast and drive forward, your bindings will always release."

#20

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10/22/08 at 8:52am

Philpug
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In his initial on snow testing, he said all of his testers (and I have to remember exactly here) skied this binding either at or below their actual DIN with no pre-release.

Click. Point. Chute.

#21

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10/22/08 at 12:44pm

Rise To The Top
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Quote:

Originally Posted by U.P. Racer

I love when intermediate skiers that ski 5 times a year like to rip on Marker bindings so they can be like the cool kids....

So I heard you like Mudkips...

#22

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10/24/08 at 2:02pm

The-Mantra
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I have been skiing for 20 years. Most of my skis have had Marker binding including my Grizzlies and both Racetigers. I have never markered out.

Richie-Rich if you are having this problem I would recommend removing the invisable toilet mounted to your tails that you sit on while you ski.

#23

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10/24/08 at 7:44pm

WestEast
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Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Mantra

I have been skiing for 20 years. Most of my skis have had Marker binding including my Grizzlies and both Racetigers. I have never markered out.

Richie-Rich if you are having this problem I would recommend removing the invisable toilet mounted to your tails that you sit on while you ski.

How much hucking? Different people want different things from their bindings. I've Markered out dropping 3 feet. No thanks. I'll stick with Look. You might have had good luck with Markers, so keep buying them. Others have not, so we buy Look, Salomon or whatever. No need to imply that a binding preference implies a technique deficit.

#24

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10/25/08 at 4:08pm

The-Mantra
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Quote:

Originally Posted by WestEast

How much hucking? Different people want different things from their bindings. I've Markered out dropping 3 feet. No thanks. I'll stick with Look. You might have had good luck with Markers, so keep buying them. Others have not, so we buy Look, Salomon or whatever. No need to imply that a binding preference implies a technique deficit.

Look(Rossi) bindings on my Enemies, XXX and B3s. Broke the AFD on each binding twice. Got sick of replacing it.

Salomon 914 on my Mantras that I sold for my Grizzlies no complaints there.

#25

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11/15/08 at 4:44am

Ski the East
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So, has anyone actually tried these yet?

The discussion in this thread kinda got off-topic at the end.

Has anyone actually tried these bindings:

http://www.kneebinding.com/

If so, what do you think? Are they really "better" than the other bindings that are available on the market today for those of us that are not in the market for a Look PX18?

What is the difference between these and a pair of Tyrol/Head LD12's with "diagonal" heel and toe release?

From the discussion above, it appears that the difference that these release when you are falling backwards and your toe is twisting but your heel isn't(??) If so, why doesn't the "diagonal toe" on the LD12 address that type of fall?

Observations appreciated.

Ski the East

#26

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11/15/08 at 5:00am

2-turn
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski the East

The discussion in this thread kinda got off-topic at the end.

Has anyone actually tried these bindings:

http://www.kneebinding.com/

If so, what do you think? Are they really "better" than the other bindings that are available on the market today for those of us that are not in the market for a Look PX18?

What is the difference between these and a pair of Tyrol/Head LD12's with "diagonal" heel and toe release?

From the discussion above, it appears that the difference that these release when you are falling backwards and your toe is twisting but your heel isn't(??) If so, why doesn't the "diagonal toe" on the LD12 address that type of fall?

Observations appreciated.

Ski the East

I haven't paid attention to binding designs in a number of years, but the older Tyrolia bindings didn't release the heel sideways. They needed a certain amount of upward movement before the heel went sideways, thus "diagonal". Probably holds true for the newer bindings also.

#27

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11/15/08 at 5:04am

Philpug
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski the East

What is the difference between these and a pair of Tyrol/Head LD12's with "diagonal" heel and toe release?

From the discussion above, it appears that the difference that these release when you are falling backwards and your toe is twisting but your heel isn't(??) If so, why doesn't the "diagonal toe" on the LD12 address that type of fall?

Observations appreciated.

Ski the East

This question was asked above...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie-Rich

How are they different than the full diagonal heel Tyrolias?

And addressed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug

Simple, Tyrolia's are designed to work with a forward twisting fall, these are designed to work in a rearward twisting fall. Downward pressure in the heel is turned into lateral pressure. Thinking about how people fall now vs. when we skied on straight skis, it really makes sense.

Click. Point. Chute.

#28

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11/15/08 at 5:35am

Ski the East
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Phil,

I saw your explanation (it was mentioned in my post), but I didn't fully understand it. Are you saying that when the pressure is straight back on your heel, the binding ejects your heel to one side?

I also asked whether the LD's diagonal toe has any relevance to the discussion, which is not the same question Richie-Rich asked.

Finally, I was hoping someone had actually tried the bindings under "combat conditions" (where it released) and had an opinion about its performance. I believe the a reason many of the folks on this forum participate is because they are leery about marketing claims by the makers of ski products and they are hoping to get an opinion about product performance from a more independent source.

Thanks,

STE

#29

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11/15/08 at 6:08am

Philpug
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STE,

I saw you ask about the heel and didn't see the toe part. In a rearward twisting fall, there is very little pressure either upward or laterally on the toe.
Example: a toe needs say 200lb of force to release in a combination of upward and lateral force and there is only 100lb of force on the toe (say 75lb upward and 25lb lateral because the other 100lb is downward pressure on the heel, that toe will not release because it feels only 100lbs of force. (did I explain that well?)

I don't think that straight downward pressure is going to shoot you out of the heel, there will have to be lateral/twisting force involved.

I know there was quite a bit of on snow testing but I imagine there were non disclosures signed.

Click. Point. Chute.

#30

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11/15/08 at 6:36am

ptex1
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I talked to the owner in Vegas. Said this would be the next great binding, same thing he said about the binding he invented for Line a few years ago that just about killed the company. Interesting idea but you have a right a left ski if the heal is going to release in the specified way. Not sure I like that. If you run it the opposite way just performs like any other binding. My opinion it just a new spin on the old Geze not sure if that is bad or good . Not sure if the world is ready to spend 500 bucks on a binding that isnt earth shattering different.

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