Help me choose GS ski

#1

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9/29/08 at 6:38pm

skier2369
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Hello all; I tried bumping a different thread, but I had no luck, so here we go:

I recently bought a pair of Head iM 78's in 177.

However, I still want a GS type ski. I want something that skis like my old Fischer GS RC4's from ~1996. I skied these from the age of 13-17. They are 193's.

I have done a bunch of looking and almost bought a pair of 04 Fischer RC4 GS's, because they are brand new and dirt cheap. I have also found decent deals on:

08 Nordica Dobermann GSR WC's in 186 or 191
07 Head RD Worldcup GS's in 188
07 Volkl Racetiger WC GS's in 190
04 Fischer RC4 GS's in 188 or 193 (the aforementioned ski)

But I am open to anything. I do not feel it is necessary to buy '09 year skis. I would also buy a used ski in good condition.

I am trying to find the differences between the skis, as much as find the right one for me.

All suggestions are appreciated, but please do not just list a ski and not give any rhyme or reason.

-Nathaniel

#2

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9/29/08 at 6:41pm

Philpug
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

Hello all; I tried bumping a different thread, but I had no luck, so here we go:

I recently bought a pair of Head iM 78's in 177.

However, I still want a GS type ski. I want something that skis like my old Fischer GS RC4's from ~1996. I skied these from the age of 13-17. They are 193's.

I have done a bunch of looking and almost bought a pair of 04 Fischer RC4 GS's, because they are brand new and dirt cheap. I have also found decent deals on:

08 Nordica Dobermann GSR WC's in 186 or 191
07 Head RD Worldcup GS's in 188
07 Volkl Racetiger WC GS's in 190
04 Fischer RC4 GS's in 188 or 193 (the aforementioned ski)

But I am open to anything. I do not feel it is necessary to buy '09 year skis. I would also buy a used ski in good condition.

I am trying to find the differences between the skis, as much as find the right one for me.

All suggestions are appreciated, but please do not just list a ski and not give any rhyme or reason.

-Nathaniel

There tend to be a bunch of these on Ebay at any particular moment and the they go for pennies on the dollar.

Click. Point. Chute.

#3

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9/29/08 at 6:56pm

skier2369
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug

There tend to be a bunch of these on Ebay at any particular moment and the they go for pennies on the dollar.

Thank you Phil, that is where I found these. Being that most posters on here have infinitely more knowledge than me regarding skis (most likely you included) I was hoping some could share their opinions and point me in the right direction.

#4

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9/29/08 at 7:00pm

Philpug
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Not to be smart, but all of those skis are good, whichever one is in better condition or you can get a better deal on, go with.

Click. Point. Chute.

#5

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9/29/08 at 7:06pm

skier2369
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Philpug

Not to be smart, but all of those skis are good, whichever one is in better condition or you can get a better deal on, go with.

This was not being smart at all, this actually helped. Thank you.

They are all brand new. The Fischers are $150; Heads are $250; Volkls are $300; and the Nordica's are $430 with bindings.

#6

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9/29/08 at 7:41pm

bjohansson
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Perhaps a simpler set of questions:

Are you goig to race on these skis?
Yes: buy a GS racing ski
No: Buy a race carver ski

OK...I was kidding...it's only 1 question.

Seriously...I used to race in college. I had a pair of Fischer RC4 WC RCs in 175 from 2005-2006. Could not find the top end on those skis. I could ski them like a race ski and they were pretty damn good in the trees also. They rewarded strong skiing, but were also pretty forgiving when my legs crapped out at the end of the day. A pure racing ski is only good for one thing...racing. Back in the day (1996 included), consumer racing skis were much more like the race carvers of today. Although the pure racing skis of today that you and I can buy bear little resemblance to what the WC athletes are skiing on, they are much narrower in their focus - gates, and only gates. Taking a consumer race GS ski into the glades at Jay or Stowe? Not my idea of fun...

#7

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9/29/08 at 7:46pm

Philpug
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

This was not being smart at all, this actually helped. Thank you.

They are all brand new. The Fischers are $150; Heads are $250; Volkls are $300; and the Nordica's are $430 with bindings.

In that case..The Fischers.

Click. Point. Chute.

#8

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9/29/08 at 7:50pm

Ghost
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Agree with Phil, unless those Nordicas have some real expensive bindings on 'em.

#9

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9/29/08 at 8:56pm

ScotsSkier
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Remember that the Fischers are 04 nad there have been 4 or 5 chnages in them since then. I have usd teh 04, 05, 06 and 07 Fischer WC GS and the difference between the 04 and the 06 and 07 (basically the same ski - teh 08 is much different with a bigger radius) is huge, design has progressed a long way. Makes the newer ones much more useable all round . I would recommend looking at the newer models

#10

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9/29/08 at 9:17pm

skier2369
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bjohansson: No, I will not be racing on them. But I will not be bringing them into the chutes or trees. These skis will only be for cold fast days when I can rip up some groomers and go all out. I have always loved ripping huge, fast gs turns down black diamonds. I can't think of more fun on a ski.

This will be the only use for these skis. Does that change your opinion, or do you still feel an RC ski is my best bet? More-so, do you think it makes that big a difference, given their use?

ScotsSkier: Do you mind elaborating on your point, in the interest of me gaining some knowledge? The Heads and Volkl's are both '07 models; and I double checked, the Fischers are actually an '03.

Thanks guys.

#11

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9/29/08 at 11:17pm

skier2369
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Further research confirms that I can basically buy any slightly used 05-07 GS Race ski for $300 or less with bindings; or brand new w/o bindings for $250-300 (except for the '03 Fischers, which are $150). We are talking basically any manufacturer.

Has this revelation turned this into a "what is your favorite GS Ski" thread?

As I am not racing, is finding the best ski a moot point, and should I just go with the best deal, as has been suggested?

And to further complicate my decision, all these options are within a 100 dollar range. Anyway you slice it I will find a good deal. Which makes me want to find the "right" ski even more. (I am known to over-analyze things, if you have not noticed.)

I am tired and confused. Hopefully someone on here can point me in the right direction.

Thanks everyone.

#12

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9/30/08 at 7:13am

Ghost
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

bjohansson: No, I will not be racing on them. But I will not be bringing them into the chutes or trees. These skis will only be for cold fast days when I can rip up some groomers and go all out. I have always loved ripping huge, fast gs turns down black diamonds. I can't think of more fun on a ski.

This will be the only use for these skis. Does that change your opinion, or do you still feel an RC ski is my best bet? More-so, do you think it makes that big a difference, given their use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

Further research confirms that I can basically buy any slightly used 05-07 GS Race ski for $300 or less with bindings; or brand new w/o bindings for $250-300 (except for the '03 Fischers, which are $150). We are talking basically any manufacturer.

Has this revelation turned this into a "what is your favorite GS Ski" thread?

As I am not racing, is finding the best ski a moot point, and should I just go with the best deal, as has been suggested?

And to further complicate my decision, all these options are within a 100 dollar range. Anyway you slice it I will find a good deal. Which makes me want to find the "right" ski even more. (I am known to over-analyze things, if you have not noticed.)

I am tired and confused. Hopefully someone on here can point me in the right direction.

Thanks everyone.

Buy the one with the longest radius.
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=72808
MMMM Super-G skis

#13

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9/30/08 at 7:46am

Whiteroom
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

As I am not racing, is finding the best ski a moot point, and should I just go with the best deal, as has been suggested?

And to further complicate my decision, all these options are within a 100 dollar range. Anyway you slice it I will find a good deal. Which makes me want to find the "right" ski even more. (I am known to over-analyze things, if you have not noticed.)

I am tired and confused. Hopefully someone on here can point me in the right direction.

You are only going to become more confused as this progresses. Phil hit it out of the park with his 'Go with the best deal' advice. race level skis are all slightly different... but there isn't 'One Best' out there, just look at what happens when a World Cup skier switches brands. Usually it's 'business as usual', no real change in results. Every major brand makes a really good GS ski, pick the graphic you like best... or the binding required.

Or tell us what qualities you like in a ski;

Quick and snappy?
Smooth and damp?
Forgiving and versatile?
Demanding and tenacious?

skiershop.com

#14

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9/30/08 at 9:25am

SkiRacer55
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Get the Heads...

...I just went back to Atomic for everything (I race Masters)...and there's another option, Atomic...but I had two pairs of the Head IGSs in a 183 length, and they were great skis...

#15

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9/30/08 at 9:40am

iriponsnow
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While I have waited a wwhile to say this.........Phil is correct.
Go w/ the best deal. GS skis have changed very little. I might steer you away from a 03 ski thou.
If you can find a binding, I have some 191 07 nordica's that I can hook you up w/ on the cheap.

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/762/...53adad_1e2.jpg

#16

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9/30/08 at 9:52am

skier2369
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Thanks everyone; it probably is redundant to you, but the posts help me out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Or tell us what qualities you like in a ski;

Quick and snappy?
Smooth and damp?
Forgiving and versatile?
Demanding and tenacious?

Smooth and damp
&
Demanding and tenacious

I thought these were a given in a GS ski?

#17

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9/30/08 at 10:21am

Whiteroom
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Some are more damp, some are more forgiving, some respond to a light touch, some like you to 'give 'em the spurs'... they are all going to be pretty darn stable at speed, they will all have very solid edge grip. It comes down to a matter of taste, some people like peperoni on their pizza some like chicken and broccoli. One isn't 'better', they're just different.

skiershop.com

#18

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9/30/08 at 10:24am

skier2369
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Some are more damp, some are more forgiving, some respond to a light touch, some like you to 'give 'em the spurs'... they are all going to be pretty darn stable at speed, they will all have very solid edge grip. It comes down to a matter of taste, some people like peperoni on their pizza some like chicken and broccoli. One isn't 'better', they're just different.

Right now i am leaning towards a Nordica or an Elan; 07 and 06 models, respectively.

#19

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9/30/08 at 10:26am

skier2369
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What is the difference between a World Cup XB plate and a Vist plate?

Iriponsnow your pm's are full.

#20

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9/30/08 at 10:37am

Whiteroom
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

Right now i am leaning towards a Nordica or an Elan; 07 and 06 models, respectively.

Cool,

Nordica = more damp, more demanding, more grip.
Elan = More forgiving, pretty damp, responds well to finesse.

skiershop.com

#21

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9/30/08 at 10:38am

skier2369
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Cool,

Nordica = more damp, more demanding, more grip.
Elan = More forgiving, pretty damp, responds well to finesse.

So elan in a 188 is probably a better ski for my uses, than a nordica in 191.

From what I am understanding either will be a bona fide stud, but the Elan will be easier to throw around at non-race speeds.

#22

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9/30/08 at 10:46am

Atomicman
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Buy the '07 Head!!!!!

#23

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9/30/08 at 12:55pm

iriponsnow
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

What is the difference between a World Cup XB plate and a Vist plate?

Iriponsnow your pm's are full.

The WC XBS is a plate made by Vist for nordica. You can mount any binding to it, not predrilled. All of nordica's race skis for the last 3 or so seasons have had some form of Vist plate such as the XBS

I emptied some of the box.

#24

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10/1/08 at 7:01pm

bjohansson
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

bjohansson: No, I will not be racing on them. But I will not be bringing them into the chutes or trees. These skis will only be for cold fast days when I can rip up some groomers and go all out. I have always loved ripping huge, fast gs turns down black diamonds. I can't think of more fun on a ski.

This will be the only use for these skis. Does that change your opinion, or do you still feel an RC ski is my best bet? More-so, do you think it makes that big a difference, given their use?

I would go with the GS Race Carvers (insert favorite brand/model here). They're just more versatile. Unless you're a sponsored racer, you won't find the top end on any of these types of skis. They hold an edge unlike anything you're used to if you're moving up from 1996 models. They reward strong skiing without punishing lazy or tired technique at the end of the day. I skied on the Fischer WC GS from 04 and also the Elan GSX from that year. They were incredibly fast but were not at all tolerant of a lapse in concentration. I found it very difficult to carve any turn radius other than the ski's design. With the RC's (I demoed Fischers, Rossignols, Salomons, and Volkls) I could adjust the turn radius pretty easily mid turn and found them much easier to slip, slide, and carve all in one turn sequence.

Just my $.02

#25

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10/1/08 at 8:21pm

altaskier11
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the Dobermans are sweet. I'm a Fischer skier myself, but the '04s really lack a lot of the more recent developments in core construction. Nordica makes a solid ski (and the best boots period), and with bindings you cant really lose.

Remember to check if they come with the plates.

If you're not skiing competitively on them, you might want to consider one of the high-end carver skis by Fischer or Volkl...the flex is going to be really unforgiving on racestock sticks. And remember to tune them. If you buy a ferrari, you dont just drive without oil changes or regular maintainance...you take care of it. A race ski will only offer performance above civilian models if you wax and polish edges every other ski day or so, and you're going to want to sharpen every 3-4 ski-days as well.

edit: Check what PJ Dewey's got at Race Stock (racestocksports.com). His website has been on the fritz, but he represents basically every brand making race skis, and has a store. He usually has some older gear at good prices; just email him with what you're interested.

Unless you're pretty tall, a 190 might be much. If you think about downsizing to a 185, you might find that you have an easier time flexing the ski and thus have a better time.

#26

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10/1/08 at 10:16pm

skier2369
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Thanks for the responses.

bjohansson: I will most likely go with the GS ski, because all i want to do with it is big GS turns. I am not looking for something versatile. As I said, I grew up skiing a much to long, and too stiff GS skis, and it made me a better skier. I am looking forward to being able to really beat up the cold/icy groomers this year with some real turns. I would buy an RC ski if I could get a reasonable price on one with a radius of 19-21. But nobody wants these 2 yr old race ski's, so I figure I might as well pick up a pair.

Altaskier11: My understanding is both Elan and Nordica made pretty sweet GS's in 06 and 07, so I cannot go wrong either way. I am 6'3 btw. I do not care if I get a 188 or 191. It just so happens both pairs of Elans I am looking at are 188 and both pairs of Nordicas are 191.

#27

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10/2/08 at 2:19am

Peppe
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all I can say is that all race skis (like the ones you mention) are very different.

Moreover race skis are not the same even if you talk about the same model (in example fischer gs 07 may vary in stiffness like all other makers do)
I own a pair of Fischer GS 08 model with stiffness 74 and it's a lot different from the stiffness 66!!!! so, my advice is to try the ski you want to buy; but try exactly that ski, not one of the same model!

Race skis are very personal like race boots! you have to choose the one that suit your way of skiing, otherwise you'll hate them!

#28

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10/2/08 at 2:26am

Trekchick
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Or tell us what qualities you like ;

Quick and snappy?
Smooth and damp?
Forgiving and versatile?
Demanding and tenacious?

This is a good list of characteristics.

Surviving is essential, thriving is incredible!
EpicSki Academy

#29

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10/2/08 at 4:12am

epl
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older models are going to be way cheaper because FIS bumped the legal radius up to 27m recently, so anything with a tighter radius is useless to racers. that's why those fischers are so much cheaper than the latest models. i doubt there's been any revolutionary change in their materials or construction methods that would justify the price of a newer model if you can get away with the old ones.

#30

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10/2/08 at 3:38pm

altaskier11
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skier2369

Altaskier11: My understanding is both Elan and Nordica made pretty sweet GS's in 06 and 07, so I cannot go wrong either way. I am 6'3 btw. I do not care if I get a 188 or 191. It just so happens both pairs of Elans I am looking at are 188 and both pairs of Nordicas are 191.

I'm not saying that they're bad skis; I skied Elan a few seasons ago and enjoyed them. They're just really different skis. You'll find that the Elans will have a lot of pop, but might not be as solid on the slick stuff as the Dobermans. Seeing that you're a fairly tall guy, and thus probably can muscle a ski more, you might not need the Elan's pop to get your turns around, and may consider something beefier.

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