4/27/04 at 2:36pm
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Army Wants Howitzers Back From Ski Areas
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Army Wants Howitzers Back From Ski Areas
4/27/04 at 5:18pm
- Joined: January 2004
- Post Count: 75
come on, there have to be 100s of howitzers in storage in the US system. they can't realy be serious?
4/27/04 at 7:23pm
Frankly, I was relieved to read that the gov wants them back. I figured those pop guns might really be there for a little aversion ski therapy. You know, weight the wrong ski at the wrong time and POW - the mountain is a bit more TC (technically correct).
4/27/04 at 11:57pm
Weel, the one in the picture looks like a 105mm
howitzer of the type used by the Italian mountain troops (Alpini).
Very light (relatively speaking), it can be transported by a CH47 Chinook chopper on its external cargo hook or, broken up into pieces, on two/three mules (that'sthe way the Alpini used to transport their howitzers, until the mules were de-commisioned from the army)
Given this, and given that Afghanistan is a mountain region...one can understand the army request.
howitzer of the type used by the Italian mountain troops (Alpini).
Very light (relatively speaking), it can be transported by a CH47 Chinook chopper on its external cargo hook or, broken up into pieces, on two/three mules (that'sthe way the Alpini used to transport their howitzers, until the mules were de-commisioned from the army)
Given this, and given that Afghanistan is a mountain region...one can understand the army request.
Una salus victis, nullam sperare salutem
4/28/04 at 5:52am
In the early '70s my Dad retired from the 1st Royal Canadian Horse Artillery regiment...went to work at Whistler on a good ol' 105mm! Who says the military can't train you for civilian life!
4/28/04 at 7:03am
- Joined: July 2002
- Post Count: 283
So, like the plan is to cause an avalanche to bury those insurgents? Is the situation is that bad over there that 5 guns will make the difference between victory and defeat? What stupidity.
4/28/04 at 8:17am
Quote:
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Originally posted by ejc: come on, there have to be 100s of howitzers in storage in the US system. they can't realy be serious? |
I wonder just how 'demilitarized' these units are. You'd fully expect them to replace the barrels as a regular maintenance item, but what of the spotting/targeting systems?
anticooler than you
4/28/04 at 12:44pm
- Joined: July 2002
- Location: NewYork City
- Post Count: 415
NOw... that's how you win a war!
4/28/04 at 4:19pm
Quote:
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Originally posted by ejc: come on, there have to be 100s of howitzers in storage in the US system. they can't realy be serious? |
4/28/04 at 8:36pm
Perhaps they just don't think it's a good idea to have this type of lethal military weapon under civilian responsibility. Imagine the governments embarrassment if terrorists got hold of it, changed the target coordinates, and let go on the slopes/lodge/town with 10 rounds a minute out of each gun? Imagine what the Democrats would say?
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4/28/04 at 8:39pm
- Joined: July 2002
- Post Count: 283
[/quote]Just because we spend a lot for defense doesn't necessarily mead the DOD has a lot for the things that matter. [/QB][/quote]
Well, I was going to come up with a snappy comeback, but I don't think I can top that...
Well, I was going to come up with a snappy comeback, but I don't think I can top that...
4/30/04 at 11:09am
- Joined: July 2002
- Post Count: 34
Cheap shot Fastman. I believe it's the GOP trying to do the Iraq war fast, light, and cheap that you should be directing your anger towards.
Back to the topic at hand though - how desperate does this sound?
Back to the topic at hand though - how desperate does this sound?
4/30/04 at 3:00pm
- Joined: October 2002
- Location: Smithers, B.C.
- Post Count: 217
Pretty desperate. What's next? Sharp pointy things? [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
4/30/04 at 8:41pm
Quote:
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Originally posted by FastMan: Imagine the governments embarrassment if terrorists got hold of it, changed the target coordinates, and let go on the slopes/lodge/town with 10 rounds a minute out of each gun? |
5/1/04 at 2:31am
- Joined: November 2000
- Location: Australia
- Post Count: 3,747
I think they want to remove temptation from terrierists, and rampant greenies.
5/1/04 at 6:38pm
Quote:
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Originally posted by tumbler: Cheap shot Fastman. I believe it's the GOP trying to do the Iraq war fast, light, and cheap that you should be directing your anger towards. |
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5/1/04 at 6:51pm
- Joined: July 2002
- Location: Colorado
- Post Count: 3,257
Could this be a reaction to the loss of a cache (sp?) of a considerable amount of explosives in Winter Park over spring break?
I have yet to hear whether the stuff was ever found. WP is a fairly sleepy town. I was there during the week it happened. The place suddenly was overrun with law enforcement and news vehicles.
I have yet to hear whether the stuff was ever found. WP is a fairly sleepy town. I was there during the week it happened. The place suddenly was overrun with law enforcement and news vehicles.
Honest info about weather, snow, lift lines, and more: twitter.com/winterparkski
5/2/04 at 4:49am
- Joined: August 2001
- Post Count: 1,015
I think it is just more of the 'hype' to keep people preoccupied with this terrorist scenario. ...It has been over 2 years and not another terrorist attack on the homeland since 911; but they keep the hype going to implement controls that would have brought about seething outrage before the event. ..Does anyone else see similarities with the way the Nazi's developed their controls during the '30s?
Anyone who thinks what we have done in the past two years would have averted an implanted terrorist orgainization's activities, needs to be looking at buying some lakefront property in deep south Florida also. ..It looks like a ruse to me, and the little chess match just keeps getting front page attention in selected areas, while civil liberties are trampled in the 'rush for the door'!
Now; the gun recalls are trivial beyond remark, but do maintain the 'hysteria' we have been so eloquently bathed in!
Anyone who thinks what we have done in the past two years would have averted an implanted terrorist orgainization's activities, needs to be looking at buying some lakefront property in deep south Florida also. ..It looks like a ruse to me, and the little chess match just keeps getting front page attention in selected areas, while civil liberties are trampled in the 'rush for the door'!
Now; the gun recalls are trivial beyond remark, but do maintain the 'hysteria' we have been so eloquently bathed in!
5/2/04 at 4:58am
Feal, sometimes even paranoids have real enemies. By no means am i a fan of the Bush administration; "1984" was just the start of it. But witnessing 9/11 first-hand, knowing many lost at WTC, all I can say is we SHOULD be preoccupied with a terrorist scenario. Unfortunately, nothing the Bush administration (regime?) has done seems an effective response, if anything they've fed the fire.
5/2/04 at 8:06am
- Joined: February 2004
- Location: Scotland
- Post Count: 376
'Does anyone else see similarities with the way the Nazi's developed their controls during the '30s?'
Both the current U.S.Govt and the European Fascists of the 30s are using fear as a political tool and both are/were run by corporatism. The question is really whether the former in their response to terrorist threats is not actually working to corporatist agendas under the guise of some justifiable fears, fears due in some part to the impact of this same corporatism on peoples increasingly unwilling to carry its yoke.
Both the current U.S.Govt and the European Fascists of the 30s are using fear as a political tool and both are/were run by corporatism. The question is really whether the former in their response to terrorist threats is not actually working to corporatist agendas under the guise of some justifiable fears, fears due in some part to the impact of this same corporatism on peoples increasingly unwilling to carry its yoke.
5/2/04 at 12:39pm
the Good News: I bet the DOD will find 100s more...
the Bad News: If they need MORE, they'll have a bit of a wait...cause the development companies' crews probably got canned a long time ago... Gotta get Lean & Mean.... ya' know [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Hi ts01,
well IMO, a Democracy has only been known by the minds of the elite(in Iraq), when the majority of the population doesn't have security, law & order..etc...."taking Back" their homeland from the US occupation is the next best thing....
Democracy can always come later....I think the administration should have prioritized this ahead of planning how they can make as much $$$ before made to get outta town come 2005.
[ May 02, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: HaveSkisWillClimb ]
the Bad News: If they need MORE, they'll have a bit of a wait...cause the development companies' crews probably got canned a long time ago... Gotta get Lean & Mean.... ya' know [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Hi ts01,
well IMO, a Democracy has only been known by the minds of the elite(in Iraq), when the majority of the population doesn't have security, law & order..etc...."taking Back" their homeland from the US occupation is the next best thing....
Democracy can always come later....I think the administration should have prioritized this ahead of planning how they can make as much $$$ before made to get outta town come 2005.
[ May 02, 2004, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: HaveSkisWillClimb ]
5/2/04 at 6:51pm
Quote:
|
Originally posted by daslider: 'Does anyone else see similarities with the way the Nazi's developed their controls during the '30s?' Both the current U.S.Govt and the European Fascists of the 30s are using fear as a political tool and both are/were run by corporatism. |
5/2/04 at 7:06pm
Quote:
|
Originally posted by feal: . ...It has been over 2 years and not another terrorist attack on the homeland since 911; Anyone who thinks what we have done in the past two years would have averted an implanted terrorist orgainization's activities, needs to be looking at buying some lakefront property in deep south Florida...... |
The fact that they existed and were apprehended, combined with your acknowledgment that no incidents have occurred since 9-11 seems to make your contention rather porous.
ABTW, my canal front property in South Florida doubled in value in the last 3 years.
YOUR SKI COACH - Bringing world class skills to the recreational skier
* Instructional DVDs * Technical Articles * On Hill Coaching
www.YourSkiCoach.com
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www.YourSkiCoach.com
5/3/04 at 4:16am
- Joined: February 2004
- Location: Scotland
- Post Count: 376
Arcadie
'Hmmm: WTC bombing = Reichstag fire?'
No.
The effects can have similarities even if the causes may be different, i.e. there is no evidence now of the same complicity in 911 as there was in the Reichstag. But the fear once established by whatever means or occurrence can then be used politically and I would have thought the invasion of Iraq as following on from 911 was just such a political link.
'Hmmm: WTC bombing = Reichstag fire?'
No.
The effects can have similarities even if the causes may be different, i.e. there is no evidence now of the same complicity in 911 as there was in the Reichstag. But the fear once established by whatever means or occurrence can then be used politically and I would have thought the invasion of Iraq as following on from 911 was just such a political link.
5/3/04 at 9:37am
- Joined: July 2002
- Post Count: 34
During a walking tour of Berlin last summer, the US tour guide is giving the history of the SS in the 1930's, talking about the consolidation of powers and government agencies. He then asks the group if they know the name of the new organization. Deadpan response: "Department of Homeland Security".
I would say that it does seem like current administration has acted on behalf of big corporations (energy, media, defense contractors) at the expense of individuals and civil liberties.
I would say that it does seem like current administration has acted on behalf of big corporations (energy, media, defense contractors) at the expense of individuals and civil liberties.
5/3/04 at 8:14pm
I find it interesting that we're finally getting around to examining the exploitation of the fear and hysteria that followed the events of 911. At the time many seemed to regard the macho sabre rattling, flag waving etc. as demonstrations of strength.
I have felt that a strong leader, one secure and confident in his values, with no agenda other than the welfare of the society, would have stood up, shared our grief, and urged us to be strong, remember the values we stand for, and act appropriately. Instead our president played to our fear, encouraged our hostility, and spoke of a vague crusade to end the world of "evildoers". The subsequent actions of our government have done little to increase our security, have widened the conflict, done much to diminish our civil rights, cost the lives of many others and for what?
The last question is worth pursuing. Just what is it that really is driving our policy?
I have felt that a strong leader, one secure and confident in his values, with no agenda other than the welfare of the society, would have stood up, shared our grief, and urged us to be strong, remember the values we stand for, and act appropriately. Instead our president played to our fear, encouraged our hostility, and spoke of a vague crusade to end the world of "evildoers". The subsequent actions of our government have done little to increase our security, have widened the conflict, done much to diminish our civil rights, cost the lives of many others and for what?
The last question is worth pursuing. Just what is it that really is driving our policy?
5/4/04 at 6:14am
- Joined: July 2002
- Post Count: 234
Arcadie-
well said. I have strong attachments to the world trade center and cannot move around lower Manhatten without thinking of friends lost and the hole left by the actions of a few determined and sick souls-
In my humble opinion, nothing we have done in the Middle East has done anything but make a bad situation worse.
God bless-
well said. I have strong attachments to the world trade center and cannot move around lower Manhatten without thinking of friends lost and the hole left by the actions of a few determined and sick souls-
In my humble opinion, nothing we have done in the Middle East has done anything but make a bad situation worse.
God bless-
5/4/04 at 7:20am
- Joined: July 2002
- Post Count: 283
Interesting perspectives. I am not an American (Cdn), but travel there occasionally. I have noticed two disturbing things about the US in my visits there since 9/11. First, how it seems a lot less free than it used to be. Second, what a divided nation it has become. From what I know of US values, I believe this should be cause for concern for your people.
5/4/04 at 7:36am
- Joined: July 2001
- Location: New Glarus WI USA
- Post Count: 2,338
Interesting the comparisons.
Didn't a German diplomat make them in 2002 and cause a major flap?
Now as a result of the prisoner abuse the "Nuremberg defense"(I was following orders) is being used.
Didn't a German diplomat make them in 2002 and cause a major flap?
Now as a result of the prisoner abuse the "Nuremberg defense"(I was following orders) is being used.
5/4/04 at 8:27am
Maybe they will be able to find these weapons of mass destruction (howitzers).
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Army Wants Howitzers Back From Ski Areas
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