Modern Boots versus "Old" Boots

Me: 50 years old, 6', 180 pounds, level 7-8.

I was a very regular skier for about 25 years, up until about 8 years ago (Mammoth mostly, other Western resorts from time to time). As of that time my boots were a pair of Salomon SX-91s (the old rear entry boots). I can tell you that prior to the introduction of the original Salomon SX-90 boot, I always had trouble with different boots I tried; I have high arches and a slightly (very slightly) wide foot and I remember finding that the SX-90 (and then the SX-91) fit me very nicely and comfortably. So as of 8 years ago I was still using my SX-91s and was very happy with them.

Over the past 8 years I have only skied on 4-5 occasions and it's always been on rentals.

This year I've been skiing a few times and the bug has hit me again and I'm ready to dive back in (still focusing on Mammoth and other places out west). I've devoted a lot of time trying to learn all I could about the new skis, because clearly my old 205 GSers won't really cut it anymore compared to the amazing stuff that's out there now and I am definitely going to try to get some new ones this season (I'm looking at the various "mid-fats" like the iM82, Cold Heat, Magfire 12 etc.). However, I put on my old Salomon boots the other day and they still fit me quite nicely, which leads me to wonder (given that I haven't done any research regarding boots):

What do modern boots do/have that my old Salomon's don't? Should I be looking to buy some new boots to complement the new skis I am hoping to buy (recognizing that I do have a limited equipment budget), or will my Salomons continue to do the job? It would be particularly interesting to hear from someone who has transitioned from the old Salomon boot to the newer boots (or someone who is still skiing on the old Salomon boot).

Thanks in advance to all who respond.

Probably not what you want to hear, but it's time for new boots.

I skied SX-92e's for a few years and they were reasonably responsive boots, but "were" is the key word. Materials, design, and construction are much better now. Less volume and more responsive.

To really take advantage of today's ski technology, you'll want laterally responsive boots. When you roll your foot, you want the boot to transmit the slightest of movements for best performance.

I continued to ski the SX-92's into the mid 90's even when I was skiing overwraps (Tecnica Explosions) at the same time. My transition for "comfort boots" went from SX's to Integrals. I never skied the SX's on new tech skis, but did ski the Integrals on shaped skis. They worked, but a current technology boot makes a huge difference.

Do yourself a favor.

Probably conformity to the DIN standard!

Heresy follows....

If your boots fit, they fit. (And DIN soles have been standard for a long time, provided you don't have too much wear from walking across parking lots).

Invest all your money in skis and skiing.

At the very least, keep you old boots so you will be able to go back after you are disillusioned with modern "technology".

My history is similar. I skied 25 days a year for about 15 years and then had an 18 year hiatus with one ski day in the middle of it. I've been skiing about 6 days a year for the past five years on my old equipment. I can't buy it all at once and I'm having trouble just getting enough together for even parts of it.

My strategy is to get boots first and get used to them before demoing and buying skis. From what I can tell, there won't be any compatibility issues with new boots and my old bindings. I'm also open to the idea of new bindings on the old skis to go with the new boots, if the budget will take it. My chief concern is that the boots will become brittle and break up. The boots are something I scrounged up and "customized" in order to resume skiing again. They fit, but not really. They work, but I think something that really fits will work much better.

I have tried on about 4 boots a year for the last 3 years. I may have found a boot that will work (Nordica Beast 10) but I'd like to do another fitting session to try work out some of the issues from the previous session, along with trying some other boots, as well.

The fly in the ointment is that my old skis are beginning to come "unglued", which may force me into a path I wasn't ready to take. Fortunately, I still have options there which should allow me to continue on the boots-first, skis-later path.

I'm still determined to do the boots first, and I'd recommend the same to anyone in my position, if the rest of their equipment is still sound.

Here's the big issue with the older Salomon boots: the plastic is probably very brittle by now, and it's unknown how well (or if) they'd hold up under the increased performance of the new skis. Plastics have come a long way since the late-80s, when the SX91 was introduced (and yes, I raced on a pair when I was a teen, eventually moving on to Tecnica and Nordica before landing on Lange in my adult years).

That said, the Salomon SX91 and SX92 boots aren't nearly as laterally stable as newer overlap boots. And you'll find that there are a lot of overlap boots that address your foot needs. Salomon Falcons, Nordica Superchargers or Speedmachines, Head and Dalbello are all worth looking at, as they fit larger volume feet very well.

But the best advice: get thee to a great bootfitter and have them find you the right pair of dancing shoes. I have problem feet (AA-width forefoot, pronounced styloid, low instep, D-width heel) and need lots of work done to get boots that fit. And it took a lot of fitting and auditioning of boots to find the best setup for me. Sure, it'll cost more, but the boots are the most important part of the equation in getting the most enjoyment (both in terms of comfort and performance) from skiing.

Good luck!

Welcome back to the sport. I am glad you are looking at new stuff, It adds a whole new level of enjoyment to the sport.

You need both new skis and boots, but if you are on a budget I would say
buy the skis first. That might be against what most will say, but in my opinion, moving from old "straight" skis to the new "shaped" skis is more of a jump than from the SX-91's to new overlap boots.

But after the skis, buy new boots as soon as you can. And get a good shop with a good boot fitter.

Time to step up to at least a SX-92..or 93.

All: I've just returned from a great weekend (backpacking, not skiing) and have read all of your responses. Thanks much for the honest input (although I think that Philplug is being a little facetious?).

Based on your recommendations and everything else I've read in this forum as well as in the boot-related forums, I do think that the time has come to see a boot fitting master and get myself something modern that really fits me well. One comment that I have seen over and over regarding boots is that the way they feel when you first try them on can be deceiving and that you could end up having the wrong sized boot once you've worn it for a bit. I know that on my most recent ski trip I rented boots from 2 shops and in each case they measured me at 27.0 but that the 27.0 boots that they gave me to try on (Technica at one shop, Nordica at the other) felt way too tight on my toes and I ended up using 28.5s which didn't mash my toes and served my needs pretty well. Based on this experience, if I was getting new boots, I would have just forged ahead and bought 28.5s if they felt right. However, now that I'm armed with all of the valuable tips and suggestions that I found in the Epic Ski forums it seems clear that (at least in my case) the boot fitter route is the way to go (and I will then donate the Salomons to the Smithsonian).

Thanks again.

We have Retro Day once a year in March.

That would be a great day to bring out the SX91 (esp the Equip) and the 205 skis. Be evn better if you brought out a 20 year old ski suit to go with it.

Note I did that and the SX91 equipes looked as ridiculous as the Atomic 203SL and the fabulous one piece Descent green suit. I won't even go into the pink and blue ski school suit from the time ....

Mike

Hold on, hold out.

Hi -

I don't know if anyone will see this note, given that the conversation ended several months ago, but I feel a need to chime in here.

I've been skiing a pair of the SX 91 Equipes for about 22 years now. I too am getting advice from my friends that I really 'should' get new boots - that I'd be amazed at how good they are.

Here's the question that I always pose back to them for which they haven't yet offered me a satisfactory answer. "How do you know?" Have you ever skied a pair of SX 91's? Granted, I haven't been in a pair of 'modern' boots, but none of them have been have skied the 91's and none of them have my feet. So how come they are so sure? I don't find the aruguement very pursuasive.

What I do know is that I've been skiing my whole life and I know what I know about myself and my own skiing experience. I bought the 91's when I was twenty-nine and it was absolutely transformative for my skiing. I had always had problems with boot fit up until that time, and with leg fatigue when skiing. Ever since I got into the Salomon's I can ski a whole day with no problem what-so-ever. I'm 52 now, but at the age of 29 (before I got the 91's) I couldn't make that statement. Does that make any sense? It's not as if I started working out or anything like that. It was an overnight change owing to the boots.

What is so special about the 91's is the fact that you can stand with completely straight legs anytime you are not skiing by just unbuckling the one main buckle on each boot. This takes all of that stress off of your quads whan you are standing in line, standing around waiting for the stragglers in your group, standing at the top admiring the view. And the performance of the boot, for me, was also far superior than anything I had ever owned - and I had tried many boots over the years trying to find something that worked better.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm still skiing the 91's and live in fear of the day when they just fall apart. In fact that was what brought me to this forum - I was poking around the internet trying to see if - should the unthinkable occur - might I be able to find another pair of 355's our here in the ether. If I can, I may just grab them just so I can sleep better at night.

As long as safety isn't an issue, whatever works.

I had a pair of sx 91s when I moved to Jackson in 1989. They were beyond a doubt the worst boots I've ever owned in my life and soured me to the whole "queer entry" concept. If you like them thats fine for you. My best advice is to put your money on your feet. Get a new modern boot fitted by a skilled tech. I can't tell you which boot because I am not a skilled tech and I've never seen your feet. Skis are plentiful and cheap. Bindings only hold the ski on. Boots are what matters. I'm currently using a Nordica Speed machine 14 with an Intuition powerwrap liner. It is working great for me and my feet.

I was skiing with a girl from school today who thought it was okay to wear her mother's 10 year old boots. As this was her first time skiing, she did not leave the bunny slopes and did not go very fast and still, when she fell, her boot literally broke. A combination of the cold with the old plastic caused the entire front of the boot to crack off including to the toe piece ending her night.

Just as the 91 was a revolutionary boot back then, you might find that a new boot will also be revolutionary now and transform your skiing again. You might consider sitting down with a copy of "Green Eggs and Ham"..Sam I am .

Oh, and yes I have skied the SX91 along with the SX90 and SX92.

Functionally, I don't see a heck of a lot of difference between my antique Koflach Comp 911 and my Crossmax 10 (except for the obvious difference in stiffness). imo, there is not much point in getting new boots unless you have plastic fatigue, worn out the boot, or changed your skiing.

I tried out the 91 Equipe. I didn't like the cable system; it kept trying to change the shape of my foot to achieve a fit instead of the otherway around.

[quote=Diego;1046952]Hi -

I don't know if anyone will see this note, given that the conversation ended several months ago, but I feel a need to chime in here.

I've been skiing a pair of the SX 91 Equipes for about 22 years now. I too am getting advice from my friends that I really 'should' get new boots - that I'd be amazed at how good they are.

Hey Diego, I've been married for as many years as you've had your boot. In that same time frame, some of my friends have traded in their wives for younger versions they say make them feel better. Well, I understand how you feel as I plan on keeping my wife as long as I can.

Enjoy your boots and ski on!

In the past 25 years of skiing, about 60 pair of skis...2 boots Flexons and Kryptons.

I traded in my 25-year old SX91 Equipe's (the grey ones, not the red ones) just last year for new boots - Nordica Speedmachine 14 . The lining was falling apart, otherwise, I probably would have kept the Salamons.

The main difference I noticed was that every new pair of boots that I tried (and I tried a lot) were much, much softer in forward flex -which meant that my shins weren't nearly as sore at the end of the day as they always were with the old SX91s.

You knew I would chime in here. Yep, still skiing my 20 something year old Lange TII's. I tried the SX91's and like Ghost, it just wasn't working with my feet. Tried on the Langes and they fit like a pair of gloves. If they fit you must not quit.

It's hard for me to imagine boots being laterally any stiffer than the vices I clamp my dogs into. Newer boots are, I'm sure , lighter, but my plastic is still solid.

If you like your old boots then keep 'em for a while. Invest in the skis first because that is where the real difference in modern equipment lies.

You mean a year and a day ago?

I skied several versions of the SX, and was very happy with them, until I switched to modern boots. The difference in control was massive. Technology has moved on, and modern boots well fitted give a much closer connection between foot and shell. This translates into more precise and accurate control of the ski edges. If you can afford foaming the result is even better (assuming the shell is a close fit in the first place).

Boots are the foundation of good skiing - you will not ski well on poor boots no matter how good the skis. Get good boots from a good fitter and rent skis if necessary until funds enable you to purchase.

The SX's are mediocre compared with today's boots, and they will hold you back.

Totally bogus advice.

I can totally identify with you guys skiing decades old boots. I dread buying new boots. My Tecnica Diablo mags are three years old and before those I was skiing in those Salomon Frankenstien Equipes from 93 or 94. The only reason I end up getting new boots is when the soles are completely gone from walking on rocks.

Those Salomon SX boots are still coveted by some tourers.

I still have my old SX92's in my bag because no matter what Ive tried, I cant find any with the same tight fit along with totally adjustable flexing available on these boots. I ski bumps almost exclusively, and find that the softest flex on these boots helps me stay forward and absorb the bumps better than most buckle boots. I am lighter than most guys at 145lbs so perhaps it  helps me more than most average 180+ guys. I get laughed at all the time when wearing them but they seem to work better than anything Ive tried so far. Lateral stiffness might be the only potential weakness.

I gave a guy a ride to the bottom of the mountain who had shattered both of his 1970's something rear entry Nordica boots.  His antique Elon ski's were unskaved, but I would recomend anyone who is still enjoying the sport to invest in good quality gear, and boots that are that old, no matter how good they were, aren't worth buckling, because that plastic is done!

 

It happens a lot more than you might think.

I don't have a single thing to add I just thought I really should post somthing here because of the thread name!!!!

I couldn't agree more with your general comment. I have one year old bump skis (less shaped than most parabolics) with new bindings and new Dalbellos. My big gripe is that I have tried every adjustment possibe and still find that in order to ski "quietly" through ski steep, deep bump I still have to undo the top buckle. Problem is that I just don't like the idea that I have to loosen the connection between my legs and the boots to gain range of motion. Weird, I know, but as a former instructor (I'm an old, washed up 56 year old guy now) I always emphasized absorbing techniques on the face of the bump and extension on the backside in order maintain continuous, steady contact between my skis and the snow. Maybe I need to keep looking, but most folks I talk to are using boots with a 110+ stiffness index. Way too much for most recreational skiers who tend to stand too upright and end up getting pushed back on their heels. Can't drive from the backseat!

Hi-

I am another 50-year-old here happily skiing in my 30-year-old Salomon SX91s.  I can vouch for the issue of plastic failure- specifically the reason I found this forum is because I was web-searching to see if I can get hold of a replacement buckle. My right boot's buckle cracked along the part that holds the little metal rod which forms the pivot in the buckle when you clamp it down (obviously, where all the stress is).  If any of you folks on this thread are ready to trash your boots, perhaps you would be willing to salvage and sell me your buckle?  I believe you can unthread the buckle wire and send just that buckle wire and buckle to me here in PA.  Anybody willing to part with their buckle, please let me know! 

I have a wrong-size pair I've cannibalized for parts.  No promises, but I might be able to give you a buckle.

I'm not at home right now -- PM me a reminder in a week and I'll take a look.