ZipFit vs Conformable vs Intuition

My experience has been that the ZipFit (especially the WC) is much lower volume than the Intuition liners.  Even the Intuition plug uses 9mm foam thickness, that's about twice as thick as the material in the bottom half of my ZipFit Plug Leather liners.  The upper half is much thicker and includes a stiff plastic support "collar".

 

I have about a finger (less than half an inch) shell fit in my Flexons and I could never get any of the Intuition liners to fit in those shells along with my foot.

 

I'm sure that Steve Bagley at Superior Ski would be able to sell you a pair even if you're not going to Snowbird any time soon.  He's the U.S. distributor for the ZipFits.

Edited by Noodler - Tue, 03 Feb 09 20:49:22 GMT

 

I've never tried skiing thermoflex liners into fitting any of my shells/feet.  Although this may happen eventually, I can't imagine that they would ever fit as well and completely fill in all the gaps as they do once they're heated. 

Oh i do plan to mold them, just thought i might get some fine tuning done first, and they really are more comfortable than my old liners already.

 

Did you try the Intution Plug Liner? 

 

Yesterday I did three intution liner sin the shop.  Two of them were the snuggest Intution liners I've ever done (and I've done hunderds!).  The moldability of the liners is astounding and even in the raciest shell fits, it is my opinion, the standard liner will work- without going to the plug liner.

 

 

My experience today tends to reafirm what "Skiing in Jackson" said in the preceeding post.  I ski the Lange World Cup 120 with a just under one finger shell fit and last week had the Intuition Plug Liner fitted.  Today I skiied it for the first time and I'm not sure I'll ski it again.  The fitter I used (20 years exp with Intuitions) first explored the Power Wrap and we literally couldn't get the cuff on the boot closed.  He suggested the Power Wrap Plug.  At the end of the fitting I was enthused but today on the hill changed that.  The liner fit on the foot was very snug (drastically snug) and not problematic but the fit in the cuff was simply unusable.  I had both the upper buckles cranked way past comfortable just to get some purchase around the ankle and lower leg.  By the end of the day both inner ankle bones were sporting "raspberries."  My skiing today was way off balance and just unacceptable.  Going back to the stock Lange liners tomorrow.

 

Call me puzzled...

That has been my experience also with the Intuition.  Try to find a plug-style liner (ZipFit World Cup is a good choice).

Another choice is the Nordica Dobermann lace-up liner.  This is readily available from certain shops.. Probably even your rep can get them.  I think last year I paid 175$ for them.  The laces are poor they're just laces, I'd like to see that system that Zipfit uses for their laces.  You could buy that though.

The tongue tends to be kind of narrow.  I had mine heated and made into a more gentle curve.

I'm using it in a lange plug RL 11 boot about 5 years old. I think it's my third one.

 

If you can't find it, order from RaceStockSports.com. They're in Waterbury, VT near Stowe.

I have just discovered this thread, and Epicski, and subscribed a few minutes ago.  I have a huge interest in these liners.  My problems go back many years.  When I was a teenager, I broke both knuckles on my left big toe.  It grew together pretty much rigid.  Then years ago I bought Nordica Grand Prix boots with the Kevlar reinforcement and foam fill.  They were too narrow for me and the painful results were "sixth toe"  bunnions on both feet.  A few cordeson shots and different boots and I could ski again.  These bunnions always made for a tight fit and the rigid toe slowly grew into a huge bunnion and I have finally had all I could take.

Today I am sitting here in a different kind of boot having just had foot surgery to correct the bunnions on my left foot.  I will probably do the other foot later, either in September or maybe next spring.  I'm not sure doing the second foot this year will leave enough time for the swelling to go away before next season.  I'm pretty sure I will need new boots next season because my foot is now narrower.  If I only get one fixed, then I will only need one new boot, so this is awkward.

My boots are 5 years old anyway.  They are 27.5 Dalbello V10's that are punched out and ground out too.  I have cut away quite a bit of the original left liner trying to find room for the bunnions too.  Pretty ugly.  I am considering Surefoot in Squaw Valley or the Start Haus in nearby Truckee.  I think I might be able to save a few coins at the Start Haus but need to talk with them both.  Having narrower feet now, I don't know what boot brand I will try. 

I race and this is my top priority, but I only get one pair and I want to do the rocks and trees and bumps too so I will need boots that I can stand all day.  I'm not a great racer so I don't need the stiffest boot in the store.  I usually go down one or two notches from race stock.

This discusion has given me an education and a lot of confidence going to the bootfitter.  I am thinking of the intuition powerstrap but I could be swayed.  Thanks for the help!

 

Both are excellent boot fitters.  SierraJim here is Jim Fowler at Start Haus, and I believe that he's around this summer, so you can beat the fall rush and take advantage of closeout deals on 08-09 boots.

Polecat,

 

Welcome to Epicski. I am not a bootfitter and have no training in the industry but I am a fan of the aftermarket liners and I've tried two models of Intuition liners and have spent considerable time with bootfitters. It sounds like there is a considerable amount of boot work in your future

From my experience I'd offer two observations. WAIT as long as you can before getting your new boots and liners fitted. Let your body go through as much of the healing and adjustment process as possible before you start. DO NOT expect the aftermarket liners alone to resolve your problems. You have significant issues and will almost certainly require more than the average amount of fitting to get the fit you're looking for.

The two Jims at StartHaaus are highly regarded and a little farther away is Bud Heishman in Reno. You might search the Ask the Boot Guys threads for answers from each of these guys. You may learn something about their approach to problem solving by their answers to other member's questions and see if one of them sounds like the right guy for you.

polecat,

 

welcome to the madhouse, the best advice i can offer is actually to do what you were planning to do anyway...go see one of the three mentioned fitters Jim Fowler, Jim Scaffner at Starthaus or Bud at snow wind in Reno, i would recoment using an independant like this over a chain any day of the week, you will get truely professional service from any one of these guys as Steveturner has said leave it for the healing process as long as possible, it may be worth going to see one of them, seeeing if there is an 08/09 boot left in stock that they recomend, buying it to get the deal and then having them do the fitting in a month or two or how ever long they suggest (these guys are top notch at their ski biomechanics they will be able to guide you)

 

good luck with your quest

Thank you to all of you who have replied to me about this. I will follow your advice. I will be going to Tahoe sometime this summer, after I get comfortable using a clutch pedal. That will be sometime in July. I will let you know when I have talked with these guys. Right now, I can walk (sort of) and the swelling is mostly gone. It has been a month today.

I've started with this last month.  I went to see Jim Fowler at Start Haus.  Jim and I chose a set of 2010 model Langs.  For some reason I never fit right in boots that would save me money.
  First of all, the last boots I had were way too big for me so now I have to get used to something a bit tighter.  Further, the left foot that I had worked on is larger than the other foot.  Jim did the first pass of grinding and blowing out the left boot.  They fit fairly well but I am sure I will get to know Jim even better before we are done with this.  We didn't use custom liners.
  The right boot is pretty much perfect now.  The left boot is very hard to get into, even in warm weather.  Jim heated it up in the shop and I could get into it and it wasn't too bad.  Later at home I had a real hard time getting into it and it was really uncomfortable.  I took the lining out and tried it on alone.  The liner is the whole problem as it was just as uncomfortable without the shell.  Jim had told me it was going to take a little time to make friends with it.  My foot is still too tender to push it too much right now.
  What I did was to make a wooden plug the size and shape of my foot that fits well in the custom foot bed and I put it in the liner.  Let that damn plug break the liner in for a month or so!

Polecat,
Unless your wooden plug is a dead ringer for your real foot, I don't think this is a good idea.  You just went through a lot to get a custom fit and you are using a stunt double made of wood?

I think what you are doing is going to give you a too big, off the shelf fit.  Your feet won't be uncomfortable but you won't know how good it feels to ski in a perfect fitting boot.  The only thing that goes in my boot other than my foot, is the sock my foot is in; and it's the thinnest sock I can find.

Please talk to Jim about this to make sure you aren't doing any damage.

MO,
Ken

  Will do.  It is a dead ringer for shape and size, except it is only 3/4 inch thick.  It was made from a 1X6.  I went to a lot of trouble shaping it precisely, especially as it conforms to the foot bed.  I figured it was ultimately the shell that should establish the size.  The liner is not in the boot.  The test will be when I put the liner in the boot and my foot in there too.  I will do that today.
  I will also be talking to Jim in a week or so as I will be in Tahoe then.

Thanks,
Keith

I am considering Intuition liners for my BD Factor AT boots. The stock liners have packed in a lot.

I am thinking of an Intuition model with a separate tongue. Does this make sense for a downhill oriented backcountry skier?

Also, most of my days are in Eastern Sierra Nevada, during spring, so it's pretty warm. WOuld Intuition liners get uncomfortably hot?

Thanks..

sacredmountains.blogspot.com

I am thinking of getting Intuitions, leaning towards the powerwrap plug over the powerwrap.  I have the original Speedmachines in 26.5 with a Surefoot footbed.  I definitely have a high volume foot, wide forefoot, high arch, thick through the ankle with large heel.  In terms of getting proper fit, what size would be best, 26.0 or 27.0?  Would the plug liner not be a good choice for Speedmachines?  I tend to prefer a tighter fit.  Thanks in advance.

Ryan

 I use the 26.5 speedmachine 14 with a custom footbed and the Intuition powerwrap.  I'm not sure what the powerwrap plug is.  I really love my boots.  Zero problems with them after some shell punch for 6th toe and the intuition upgrade.  Make sure that the bootfitter who helps you mold them knows how to do it.  Stephan, skiinginjackson, did mine and it was a somewhat involved process that definitely took two people and had plenty of room for error.  Mine came out perfect the first time.  I also use a Hotronic bootheater, I ski a lot and usually from bell to bell and need my boots to be comfortable.  I also have a wide forefoot and high arch.  Good luck with yours!

You would probably get a tighter fit with the regular power wrap liner.  The plug liner is thinner and higher density, and is designed to work best with a plug boot that has been ground or stretched to tightly conform to the user's feet and which normally comes with a very thin liner.  I use the plug liner in my Lange WC plug boots and have been happy with it, but if it were to be used in boot that didn't have a very close fitting shell to begin with, it might not be thick enough to provide a tight fit.  It's best to go in and have the bootfitter test fit a couple of different sizes of Intuition liner, as well as the regular and plug versions, in order to figure out which will work best for you.

From what I know about Nordica's, they tend to fit wider than Langes, so you might be better off with the thicker, regular Powerwrap liner in order to ensure you have a tight fit.

I forgot about this thread.

Another update:

I have retired the Atomic's ever since getting a pair of Head Raptor 120 last year for dirt cheap. I fell in love with the fit of the Raptors. The liner on the raptor is good enough for my tastes that I really have no need for a third-party liner. Unfortunately, the Conformable injected liners could not be transferred to the Raptors without major problems. The heel worked well bu the forefoot was just too crampy and there obviously is no way to remold these things. I should say, however, that the Conformables worked as good as new after 3 + seasons skiing them off and on. 

The Intutitions in the Falcon also have held up without any issues. The ZipFits seemed to have lost their 'umpha' and have got very sloppy in the forefoot and there is tearing and scuffing along the seems. I would have got a pair of intuitions for the Raptors but it took quite a bit of fitting, punching, grinding, canting, and skiing to get to the point my feet weren't falling asleep, I am leaving it as it is. The raptor liner and fit is awesome and I am not touching them. In my quest for the perfect boot, liner etc right now the Raptors are about as close as it has got for me. I have some strange feet. The Falcon/intution is now my go-to boot for soft days/crud/moguls and the Raptor is my boot for hard snow days/NASTAR. It is ultra-reactive. Just think turn and it turns.  

Also, I think the manufactuers might be getting the picture and are starting to make better quality liners-at least on the high-end. The leather Liner in the raptor is superb, IMO -- for my feet, at least.