Video camera recommendation on the slopes

OK -- sort of ski gear. I'm in the market for a good quality compact video camera that I can use on the slope as well as around the house shooting my kids, etc. It's been years since I bought my last one (which croaked a while back) and I'm not sure "what's out there" these days.

Are there any special considerations I should make for using a video camera on the ski slopes? Which features / models would you recommend I consider in that regard?

Thanks

how much are you willing to spend?

I have a Canon Alura 100 . Key features to look for skiing:

compact and packable

easy to use features so you can do without gloves or when your fingers are cold.

durable casing. You can look for h20 resistant but i haven't seen

Get a digital camera and store data on chip. easy to transfer.

stabilization is a big plus

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics...cid=99040&fp=F $289

If you are using with a helmet cam, check the site for full compatibility.

Yes, how much do you want to spend? 500, 1000 or 2000? I have the Sony DCR-PC330 DV camera and I love it. It is no longer on the market but was at the time (4y ago) the best compact model. In your case I would be looking at nothing less than a HD model. You can get them at 1000usd and that is going to be the standard in the future so 500 on a regular one is a wast of money. Also, stay away from DVD cameras. The DV tape might seem a bit oldfashion but its still way better for recording use.

If you plan on skiing high altitude resorts (elevation of 10K +) do not buy a hard drive based camcorder as the HDs are not designed to operate at those altitudes.

I'd recommend two pocket sized models from Panasonic the Panasonic HDC-SD5 hi def camcorder or the SDR-S150, both record to SD cards. For the hi def model you'll need a really fast computer if you plan on editing the video.

I use a SONY Mini DV. It seems to have all the features that I really need to be using, and ends up with nice picture quality - especially on an HD screen.

for $289 and it writes to a SD as well , how can you go wrong with the Canon? The S150 is 600! I doubt he's making a real movie.

Mini DV gives a lot of bang for the buck as well as cheap storage.

HD and hard drive storage not really all that for the $$. Plus if you drop it off the lift, not the end of toys for a while.

SMALL. Extra batts. Firewire port.

Battery life is a big deal in the cold.

Thanks for the insights, folks. Lots of stuff there I hadn't considered. Questions about price are valid -- I was sort of thinking in the 3-400 dollar range, but again I don't have a whole lot of video experience. I have a professional-series DSLR camera by Canon, but I know you can get great "point-and-shoots" for a whole lot less than mine. I suspect the same is true for video. Finndog is right, I'm not planning on doing fancy movies, but I do like quality that will work in the cold, be reliable, reasonably high quality, and also work well for shooting my kids school programs, etc...

Hearing what you all use and why you like it is very helpful.

Any more questions? Ask away!

Thanks again.

Avoid the little Sanyo one..was lousy, returned it w/in 3 days.

Exactly. Also, you want to make sure you have something with optical image stablization versus electronic.

The HD versus tape debate

So with SD cards, how much video can you you get on a card (1 GB, for instance). With Hi-8 tapes, or whatever, you know you can get X minutes on each tape depending on the size. With hard drive disks, is the amount of video stored dependent on the the resolution or anything like that? Will it then vary between cameras?

Cheers,

I just checked a DV file I put on my computer and 23 minutes of DV is about 4.7 gigs. But that is DV which isn't highly compressed. Some cameras save in one of the mpeg formats which take less space.

Interesting. Kinda like shooting RAW versus JPG in a digital camera, 'eh?

[quote=jay_p;791190]If you plan on skiing high altitude resorts (elevation of 10K +) do not buy a hard drive based camcorder as the HDs are not designed to operate at those altitudes.

Is that true? I've been looking at the High Def hard-drive camcorders and hadn't heard that. I will definitely be using it above 10K.

Other things to look for are,

Optical zoom. Most camcorders have some optical and when that's maxed out the zoom function happens digitally. The digital zoom looses a ton of clarity, so look for a camera with a good range of optical zoom. Most Canon's are pretty good in that regard.

Get some of the larger/longer hours batteries because the cold kills batteries. I don't have any experience with the card or drive recording cameras. MiniDv tape is a great format, but moving that tape across the recording heads takes a lot of power. the other big power eater is the monitor, so it helps to shoot looking through the viewfinder and leave the monitor closed.

Just went back and re read posts - see you have a good DSLR so you know about optical vs. digital zoom already. Just as in still photog, glass is probably the most important piece of the puzzle for getting quality images.

[quote=RMP_CO;985377] I live and ski in CO, so this was a big concern for me too. Just do a google search, usually this stuff is buried in a user manual.

Here's what JVC says:

"Everio cannot be used in low pressure areas (generally places that are more than 3,000 meters (10,000 feet) above sea level)."


Here's a comment about the IBM microdrives:

"Using the Microdrive Above 10,000 FT
The following came directly from IBM Support in answer to a user who was thinking about using the microdrive on a vacation in Napal:

The Microdrive does need "AIR" to float the heads and typically above 10,000 ft the mass of the air is too low and the drive requires a pressurized environment similar to an aircraft or spacecraft. At high altitude the air bearings begin to loose support from the air molecules needed to provide the "air bearing" for the Negative Air Bearing Surface (NABS) design of the head. If this "air bearing" is removed or lowered (as is the case with low density air at high altitudes) the head damages the media and you could have loss of data. The drive is vented to maintain equal pressure inside and outside to provide the air and to maintain the same pressure. This eliminates the need for sealed and rigid covers that can tolerate pressure differences.

The OEM Functional specification defines the warranty range for operating altitude as 3,000 M or 9,000 ft (3ft/M). If the customer is mountain climbing with a GPS or digital camera above 9,000 ft the drive might have problems. (Mt Fuji ~ +13,000ft, Mt Raineer ~ +14,000 ft)."

My review of a Panasonic flash based HD model:

http://web.mac.com/colorado_freeskie...er_Review.html

On high altitude... Is this because most Hard Disks have a tightly sealed environment (to keep out contaminants)?

If so, it makes sense as the air pressure differential developed inside (at high vs lower elevation) might cause the seals to burst from rapidly changing pressure against a frozen bleed valve or filter. Once the gunky air gets in, it's only a matter of time before the heads crash.

That's probably a concern for lenses and cameras as well if they're properly sealed against water they may also be sealed against easy air flow causing potential pressure problems. A large pressure differential inside a multi-element lens might easily screw up the optical alignment.

EDIT: I now see jay_p just posted a pretty good explanation. Head flotation would certainly suffer at low air densities. So much to learn, so many toys to consider...

.ma

drives are not sealed in the sense that the casing has to bear the weight of atmosphere. All drives have vent holes in them to allow for some pressure change so the seals won't blow out. It's the density of air required to create the air bearing as has been pointed out.

They have diaphragms or seals internally to allow some pressure changes but still keep contaminates out of the working area of the drive.

I love using the Sony DCR-PC5.

Very old unit still a great work horse. Compact, easy to use, good controls, great image stability.

DC

[quote=jay_p;985395] Jay,

do you happen to know the weight of the camera. I'm looking for something that's lightweight and HD to put on my helmet... thanks

Thanks Dchan, I was just thinking of those porous 'seals' being subject to freezing closed when the warm (somewhat moist-er) air is exhausted through the vent as it's taken to higher and higher elevations.

Years ago I worked for a defense contractor that made very small, sealed power conditioners and other electronics for fighters. Vents covered with micro-porous membranes work great even when the pressure differential changes rapidly (as they might in a fighter jet).

The problem was in the freezing of those vents due to moisture condensation. Just thought the same might occur in disk drives if taken up and down a mountain.

Guess if we're planning on taking our camera for a Space Walk, we'd better not buy one with a disk drive...

.ma

[quote=skier357;985444] 340 grams or .75 pounds...seems like it would be easy to mount on a helmet.

[quote=jay_p;985992] Thank you, I've been using a Mini DV that weighs 460 grams. It does the job but I want to upgrade to HD

I got a Sanyo HD1000 last year primarily for sports activities, and I've been pretty pleased. It was actually great for skiing, as it is very compact but still does full 1080p HD. However, I mostly just used 720p at 60fps, which can produce some great slow-mo shots as well. Easy to use with gloves too. Sanyo actually makes a waterproof camcorder as well, but with quite a bit lower video quality.

And I would definitely say go with SD memory over hard drive... I'm pretty sure that's where everything is going these days anyway. You can get a 16gb SDHC card for around $30 now, which should cover you for quite a while.

Has anyone used the Flip Video for taking skiing videos?   I'm interested in how it compares not to a camcorder but to the video function of a point-and-shoot camera.   Thanks.

Has anyone used the Flip Video for taking skiing videos?   I'm interested in how it compares not to a camcorder but to the video function of a point-and-shoot camera.   Thanks.

the Flip Video shakes like crazy if you're trying to film while skiing. If you're not moving and filming someone else it's fine

 

 

I got my wife one of the waterproof models. Very comfortable to use with its' pistol grip and compact enough to fit in your pocket. It records to an SD card on Mpeg 4 i think. not the finest video quality but surprisingly good nonetheless. 8 GB SD card is good for about 8 hours of video I think. The image stabilization is nice as is the 8 megapixel fixed frame shot capability. The optical zoom is only 4 or 5 times I think so not so great. Still not bad for skiing as its small enough that you're unlikely to leave it behind when you go skiing. I think its currently priced at around $184 which includes Adobe Elements software so if you're looking for something to throw in your chest pocket for the off chance you may find something worth shooting its hard to beat.

Thanks.  I'll skip the Flip. 

 

 

I ran into this problem as well with my Flip cam in trying to use it for skiing/ sports outings. I got a Vholdr cam instead which has a nifty function that the lens tilts on a level, always moving to keep shots steady. that way when you watch the video you don't feel like vomiting from the shakiness, haha.

 

anyway i don't know how good the Vholdr is for family outings or filming the kids, unless maybe you put it on your kids' head for a toddlers POV cam for the day