Tips for helping a newby get off the lift?

My wife is a new snowboarder (and I'm still a beginner myself). She's had one day of lessons and another practicing. She's progressing pretty well and starting to link turns on the bunny slope.

But she's having a terrible time getting off the lift. She falls every time. I don't know a lot to tell her, though I did point out the importance of choosing whether your back foot hangs off the toe or heelside of the board, depending on which way you want to turn.

After her first lessons, the instructor suggested that she take a couple of days and practice on her own, and then take another lesson. That's her plan. We're going up again on Saturday.

It's probably mostly a question of experience and balance, but if anyone has any specific tips that might help her, it would greatly enhance our snowboarding experience.

Any boarder will tell you that getting off the lift without falling is one of the most difficult things to do on a snowboard. If it's an icy unloading point, it's even harder than that.

First, try to ride up on a chair that is not crowded. If it's a quad, try to get it with three or even two on it. If it's a triple, two or even just your wife.

Next, as she gets to the unloading point, raise the bar, move forward on the seat turning toward her front foot side, positioning the board straight ahead.

Next, put the board on the snow, stand up on it, keeping the legs slightly bent. Weight should be evenly on both the front foot and the rear foot on the stomp pad. As she stands she should say to herself, "Relax."

As the board glides forward, she should stand sideways naturally out of her stance, holding on the lift as a directional guide and stabilizer as long as possible without leaning back.

Let the lift go and glide forward as far as the unloading area will allow. For now, she should then turn to whatever side is easiest and just stop. She can then walk to where you guys go down the hill.

Others may have different but equally good advice.

well done. The stand up part while still hanging on is key, getting everything going in the same direction is slightly easier with some support from the chair.

This is how I explain it to my students:

First don’t look at the board while getting off the lift. Once you get your back foot on the board, pick a point, tree, some fixed object and focus on it. Look at it while you get off the lift. You’ll glide towards it and it will also get your mind away from “am I going to fall?”

This is the rest of the drill:

You already know how to do this. Getting off the lift is just like doing your straight glides you practiced at the bottom of the hill. Nice aligned flexed stance, weight forward, look in the direction you are going. Look at the off-load ramp as you come up to it on the chair. Align your snowboard so it will be aimed straight down the ramp just like our straight glides. Look for the spot where the ramp starts to incline downwards. When you get to that spot, put your board down on the snow, and put your back foot on the stomp pad on the board right in front of the back binding and stand up. Put your back foot completely on the board, do NOT put your foot on the snow or you will fall. Do not let your foot hang over an edge of the board either (this will cause the board to turn immediately and cause them to fall-this technique is more advanced and can be introduced later). Pick and look at fixed object in front of you and glide towards it. You can do this.

Note 1: You must say this all in a calm, caring, compassionate tone, full of confidence.

Note 2: My last class had four ladies say between the ages of 35-45. All were terribly nervous about getting off the lift without falling. They all thought they would fall. I did a tiny bit of coaching as they came off the lift (not much really-just where to put board down and stand up). They all came off confidently, none of them fell, and all four of them rode a chair together & got off together. I congratulated them all and said “that wasn’t so bad now was it”. They were amazed and gained a great deal of confidence. It set the tone for the rest of the class. They expected to be black and blue by the end of the class as friends had told them. I let them know we go out of our way to teach “no hard fall classes”. They fell a few mild falls during the rest of the class but none left with bruises.

Note 3: A bunny hill ramp shouldn’t be steep and should have a nice run-out so no worries about stopping. It shouldn’t have a lot of stopped traffic at the bottom of the ramp either or get resort personnel to clear the stopped traffic. I use it as a safety education opportunity for skiers and snowboarders.

Great job Boardboy!

If the lift exit ramp is any steeper than almost flat, the number one thing is to get as much weight on the front foot as possible. I have my beginners practice this during their straight runs so that they are ready for the lift. Whether the back foot should be placed all the way on the board or not is a matter of debate. At my resort, the lift exit ramp is steeper than it should be. My experience has been that having the back foor half on and half off (butted up against the back binding) works best. When getting off, the students ride a flat board to the bottom of the ramp then tilt the board to engage whichever part of the foot is hanging over and they come to a nice stop. I also tell my bigger students to hold on to the back of the chair before they turn to line the board up straight. Little heads should hold on to the front edge of the chair after they stand up. They should hold on to the chair long enough to let it push them.

To help learn how to get their weight forward, I have my students practice bending their front leg and wiggling their knee from side to side, then holding it in a forward position. The next part of practicing for the lift is to do straight runs at the bottom of the trail. Line yourself so that board is pointed straight down the hill, give yourself a push step, step your back foot onto the board, set your front knee wiggled forward, ride the board flat and straight for 10 feet, then do a toe or heel side turn to a stop. If you can do these things at the bottom of the hill, you can do them getting off the lift.

Sometimes we forget how scary exiting the lift can be for a rider. To help my new instructors remember what the first day feeling is like I sometimes have them get off the lift riding switch (free foot in front). Whether you can do it without falling or not is not important. The last 5 feet to the lift ramp, where you're thinking "Oh $#$#, this is NOT going to work" is what the experience is all about.

Skidiver, if your wife is falling backwards when she gets off the lift, it's because she is not staying with the board after she stands up. The sequence is board down on snow, stand up, board starts moving, upper body does not move, weight gets back, board moves faster, weight goes back further, board moves faster, crash. Concentrating on getting all the weight on the front foot forces the upper body to move with the board. The sequence now becomes board down on snow, stand up, step onto the front foot, let chair push, ride off the ramp.

Great pointers from boardboy and the rusty.

Why don't rental boards have stomp pads? That would help a lot. Demand a stomp pad when you pick up your rental board.

This is all incredibly helpful, folks--thank you, and keep 'em coming!

telerod, I suspect it's so that they can use the same board for regular and goofy riders. I've seen some rental boards where the stomp pad is right in the middle of the board for precisely that reason.

They are lazy and incompetent if they are renting boards to goofy footers and expecting them to ride tail first instead of rotating the bindings.

I hadn't thought that all the way through, but you are absolutely correct. Wish I had thought of it when the kid in the rental shop gave me that explanation

Well, don't tell him he's an idiot, but try to get a board with a stomp pad. Centered between bindings is better than no pad. A beginner might not know if she is goofy or not, so renting out a board that can go either way might not be completely wack

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll,

1) the Burton LTR boards are true twin tips. One of the reasons for this so goofy footers don't need to have the bindings rotated (but you do need to move the leash). If the board you're renting is a twin tip, the rental people might not actually be lazy AND incompetent.

2) you don't realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllly need a stomp pad if you just push your foot up against the binding. Personally, I'd rather do that (for more control) then step on a stomp pad in the middle of the board. Good luck getting those lazy AND incompetent rental people to install a stomp pad on one of their rental boards. You might have better luck with a shop rental then a resort rental. But if they won't do it, you can always use some chewing gum instead!

Stomp pad is grippy. Snowboard deck is slippy. Pay your money and take your choice. You can push your foot against the binding and use a stomp pad. Not sure why those options should be mutually exclusive. Chewing gum is a stupid idea.

ok - you got me there - it was a stupid joke.

Keep it simple:

Stand up, look forward (NEVER down)

-Hem

Haha, yeah. I guess stomp pads on snowboards are like heel bindings on skis, helpful but too embarassing to be seen with.

Both obscure the graphics, too. :

Hmm I put my weight back, jam my loose back foot against my back binding and lean back, pushing back with my front foot, pushing foward with my back foot, weight mainly back. I find this to be by far the most stable position to be in. Don't try to turn or slow down until you've found your balance point.

Almost a manual except riding stomp pad in other words? Out of curiosity, are you on a board soft enough lengthwise that you can flex it this way?

Sorry, hard to put how something feels into words . No lean back at all, just my weight mostly on my back foot. Body position is centered over back foot. My take on it is you wipe out by going over the front, or having the board twist on you away from your loose foot when trying to turn or stop. I'm just trying to stay on top of the board and as locked to it as possible.

Here are the fatal flaws I am used to seeing with unloading ramp wipeouts:

- Staring down at the snowboard.

- Riding down the unload ramp with the board sideways or diagonal.

- Doing the 'hobble' down the ramp with the unbound foot. Lift ops ususally have to rake the ramp after someone does this.

- Rider stands up where it says Stand Up Here and then immediately wants to sit back down in the snow right where they are. This behavior is apparent among newby skiers as well.


Here are the basic details in a brief list:

* EYES - Focus on something straight ahead about eye level, like a tree or a ski sign.

* BOARD - Scoot to edge of the chair, Be sure to position the board straight ahead down the unload ramp.

* back FOOT - Stand up with the back foot lightly pressured against the inside of the back binding (stomp pads make this much more surefooted - I prefer grippy rubber over foam or hard plastic).

* BALANCE - When you stand up, keep standing by balancing your weight evenly front to back or just a touch weight back, knees slightly bent. Move back foot to the snow when you slow to a stop.


Hope this is simple enough to help.

Why do you have your weight on your back foot?

Weight - a little forward so as to control the front of the board.

Alignment - front shoulder over tip of the board, back shoulder over the tail (12 o'clock for front shoulder, 6 o'clock for back shoulder).

As long as ramp is not too high or someone in front of you is not blocking exit area, just glide straight to a stop. Take back foot off and push away.

The weight should be centered or just a tad bit back for better success at staying upright while riding down the unload ramp into the exit area. For beginners, I have found that too much weight on the front foot greatly increases forward-type falls with any irregularities on the snow; and with too much weight on the back foot (most prevelant), the rider skids out and ends up sitting/laying down before clearing the exit area.

One thought behind the weight being just slightly back is direction. Assuming the rider's board is pointed forward toward the exit area, having some weight on the back foot would lend it to staying put against the back binding and helps the board keep going straight wherever it is pointing. Just like in normal riding - weight up the front foot then the directional control is very responsive (not what a beginner usually knows how to handle just yet) AND weight up the back foot then the board will likely continue in a straight line.

The times that I have varied from this is when the beginners body dynamics (or their brain) just doesn't compute this. It is good to find out what kind of other activities the beginner is involved in; then try to relate what you are trying to convey with something that they know how to do.

Velly intellesting.

I have yet to have a first time rider get too far forward while getting off the lift. I suppose the details of the lift ramp might make a difference (your lift ramps may vary).

I often test our experienced riders ability to straight run a flat board (no edge and no spinning). It is my contention that this can not be done if one has more weight on the back foot than the front foot. A weight bias toward the front foot will naturally self correct any directional deviations in a manner similar to how a shuttlecock always lands weighted end first if it's allowed to float to a landing.

You can straight run a tail manual or nose press with zero edge. Inspired by Shepherd Wong, I played around a bit with both exit ramps and stomp pad traverses this weekend. Basically, what he and then 100+ Days Chris are describing feels to me like loading for a manual but not lifting the nose. And it does have the net effect of making you go straight.

Whether this is optimal for a beginner? I have no idea. For many unathletic beginners they likely would fall back as noted. For steep exit ramps that require a turn it also may not be optimal. Using Snowbird as a reference, the Chickadee lift wouldn't present issues. Personally off the Gad II lift I'd want to be able to turn, but then beginners won't be riding there. My home hill does have some steep ramps that do require a turn as well that are the scene of much drama.

Basically, I think it's a good reminder there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Well, this isn't a thread on helping advanced riders get off the lift. For beginners and anyone else having trouble with the lift ramp, I would suggest weighting the front foot for the reason Rusty mentioned and also because, uh, that's the foot that's attached to the board. Binding one's foot to a board or ski greatly enhances one's ability to control the board or ski.

I like the way you think! But that wouldn't be a flat board. The challenge I give is to straight run our long "flat" beginner run. I'm sure someone could tail manual the whole way and I'd accept that as an out of the box solution.

My first concern with the more weight on the back foot recommendation is that this should cause a tendency for the board to want to spin. Accomplished riders can easily correct for this, but beginners typically can not. My second concern is that more weight on the back foot should cause the board to want to accelerate relative to the body. I can see this as a desirable attribute for getting away from the chair. But I can't see this as a position that enhances balance for the entire length of a typical chair exit ramp. The only way I can see this working is if the center of mass remains in front of the back foot. This is certainly possible, but the margin of error for doing this successfully is much smaller than the typical beginner is capable of performing.

I agree that having some weight on the back foot can aid in maintaining directional control. I teach my beginners to drag a toe or heel of their back foot to help turn and slow at the end of the ramp (I know this is controversial). They will use some weight on the back foot to do this. It's important to understand that the instruction to put all of one's weight on the front foot is done with the expectation that this will not be accomplished. It's the focus of attempting to do so that gets beginners to stay with their boards as they exit the lift instead of standing up and then falling backwards.

Rusty, in terms of what works best for most beginners, like I said you may be right. In terms of riding a flat board straight whith more weight over the back leg, you may want to check your beginner hill to see if it's offcamber, a lot of them end up much higher in the middle. Plus check those riders' base bevels and detune. With a flat, single fall-line slope they should be able to do it...try offering them whiskey:

One idle thought: not sure whether this is relevant to what's good for most beginners either, but riders seem to develop very varied preferences in terms of back foot location, ranging from more than halfway to the front foot to all the way against the back binding.

CT,

For sure our primary beginner trail is crowned. And everyday it is groomed slightly different. But it is almost always possible to pick a line from the top that will get you down without any steering required. The whole purpose of the challenge is to determine if they have the knowledge and the skills to get the task done with the gear they have. I want to see if they have a hammer and thus every problem is a nail. BTW- we are a dry resort - whiskey is not an option.

With respect to back foot location, I teach up against the binding (and half on/half on - with toe or heel dragging). But I won't correct if it's in the middle or even behind the binding (for little guys with their bindings mounted close together) if it's working for them. No matter what I teach and how much we practice my students are typically all over the place when they get off the lift. I consider it a success if they don't crash right away or pedal off the lift. I recognize that the primary determination of how I teach is the specific configuration of our lift exit. I am lobbying to get the lift exit ramp regraded down to a 3 degree pitch (it's about 11 now). In the meantime, I have been successful in getting the groomers to flatten the ramp a bit now that we have some snow to move around. This has greatly improved the success rate for beginners getting off the lift no matter what technique they use.

This has been good discussion on finding chair unloading success quickly.

What you say to your newbies is usually interpreted and the results can run the gammut from leaning over the toe edge (bending at the waist) to the all too popular front leg straight back leg totally bent scenario. After clearing the exit area I like to take a moment to observe other riders leaving the chair and point out riders with body position that is condusive to success to the newby(s).

You can also drive home the proper body position with those who struggle by physically immobilizing the newby's board and have them bend or straighten their legs and/or torso to get the desired effect. On occasion I have used this trick to familiarize the rider with proper forward lean to initiate toe side turns with good outcome.

Getting off lift

New poster today, these are all great pointers. I always tell my students: first, that falling is fine just move to the side and that most first timers do fall. This is to make it normal and not stressful. Then I tell then there is only one thingt they need do and do correctly to not fall. Stand all the way up! For some reason most folks feel safer squatting which most always puts them on their back foot which has already been discussed here as to why that is bad. Once standing wieght the front foot more than the back. Keep your rear hand (right for regulars) on the chair and merely let the chair push you away. So they are not concerned about scooting forward. They have one single focus, stand all the way up, pressure the front foot and move the shoulder into the ramp. I have found kids and adults able to easily focus on this one single command successfully. As the other poster pointed out, learning to slide with one foot locked in should have been accomplished before getting on the lift.

I like that! Focus can really be difficult for nu-bees and one thought works for me

The other points are, depending on the lift, it can throw you off as it spins around, unless you are clear of it. I found on several occasions, I would put my back hand on the chair and not push off right away, and the chair would push me sideways : ! I learned eventually.

Also, some ramps are just not beginner friendly. I too experienced the short and steep ramp as a beginner and my hip still reminds me of that time