New bike doesnt want to turn.

#1

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 7:56am

BushwackerinPA
offline

Joined: February 2005
Location: Stowe, Vt
Post Count: 6,115

Ok so I got my first "real" MTB a couple days ago. I was riding this summer an old undersized schwinn hardtail. My new bike is a 06 Haro Shift R5, 18inch frame size. My stats are 5'10 175lb with a 31 inch inseam(if that helps you at all). Tires are Kenda Komondo 2.1 inch tires set at 35 psi, this problem was much much worse at the 60psi the LBS had it set at. Tires arent the best but after lowering the pressure they really arent washing out anymore.

Now the problem is the bike just understeers and flat out refuse to turn sometimes. I really have to stand up and lean forward(uncomfortably so) to get enough weight on the front to get it to flow on tight singletrack. The front end feel light and there is much more of my body weight on the seat and not on the handle bars. Also some other thing I have noticed. The bike sits and feels much higher, and the seat tube is angled back much more than my old bike.

Here are my main questions...

So with all that info what can I change to make the bike a little more nimble and twitchy? Can I move the seat forward on the post and/or move the handle bars more upright/forward? I feel the bike needs more weight on the front and these are what I could come up with to get it ton happen, maybe you have a better idea than me.

Hope someone can help out this biking newb, or is it just the sucky rider causing these problems.

"Trading the future for the moment, one powder turn at a time"

pbfootnit.blogspot.com/ <<< the start of something good!

#2

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 8:04am

icanseeformiles(andmiles)
offline

Joined: July 2004
Location: Mount Washington Valley / Winter Park
Post Count: 2,441

first, find a copy of "Zinn & The Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance," by Lennard Zinn - my local library has a copy, maybe your's does too. There is an excellent appendix on fitting the mountain bike.

Second, most any hardtail will seem to understeer compared to a rigid frame. It will take some getting used to. (But, it sounds like your problem is related to your weight distribution on the bike. If your weight is too far back, of course, the front tire won't make enough rubber-to-ground contact to effectively turn.)

#3

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 8:09am

BushwackerinPA
offline

Joined: February 2005
Location: Stowe, Vt
Post Count: 6,115

sry didnt say that the Haro is 5inch travel front and rear FS bike. The old bike was a Hardtail with 2 inches of front travel.

"Trading the future for the moment, one powder turn at a time"

pbfootnit.blogspot.com/ <<< the start of something good!

#4

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 8:49am

Taylormatt
offline

Joined: July 2002
Location: SW PA
Post Count: 1,575

A 5" bike handles totally different than a HT with 60mm of front suspension. Slacker geomtery is one key piece of the puzzle here. You need to learn weight distribution and to lean the bike into turns rather than steer so much. Think carving on skis, move your body in the direction of the turn.

The front tire might just suck for our area, never ridden it, don't know myself. I know my Nokian NBT's blow on our soil, you might have the same problem. Secondly, the front fork. Not a good fork by any means, but don't worry, given Manipoo's track record, you'll likely lock it up real soon and can upgrade to better model. My wife had that same fork for 30 miles before it locked up due to a bad damping valve. The rest of the components look decent on the Haro, but like my wife's Jamis, that Manipoo was the weak link and didn't take long to get rid of. Research it on MTBR, many, many folks with the same problem. A good stout fork up front that doesn't flex much may help handling a lot.

#5

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 10:46am

Philpug
offline

Joined: September 2000
Location: NTS, PA
Post Count: 21,815

Did you adjust the shocks to your weight?

Click. Point. Chute.

#6

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 11:13am

carbonissimo
offline

Joined: September 2005
Location: Park City, Utah
Post Count: 766

'It's not about the bike'.

#7

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 1:49pm

icanseeformiles(andmiles)
offline

Joined: July 2004
Location: Mount Washington Valley / Winter Park
Post Count: 2,441

do you have some type of utility that allows to post in many forums simultaneously?

#8

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 2:14pm

ryan
offline

Joined: July 2002
Location: los angeles
Post Count: 7,282

you talkin'a me?
you talkin'a ME?
you TALKIN'A me?
YOU talkin'a me?

#9

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 2:27pm

Ghost
offline

Joined: October 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Post Count: 9,923

I don't know crap about bikes, but I do know a little geometry. If you can adjust the bike, moving the back tire lower relative to the frame when your sitting on it (so seat comes up as tire goes down, and making the front tire higher so that the bars are closer to the ground. Will both make the bike twitchier via less rake and trail, and shift your weight a bit forward. My guess though is that the frame geometry is not what your looking for. Sorry.

#10

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 7:47pm

BushwackerinPA
offline

Joined: February 2005
Location: Stowe, Vt
Post Count: 6,115

Quote:

Originally Posted by icanseeformiles(andmiles)

do you have some type of utility that allows to post in many forums simultaneously?

control C and control V

.

I ll give some feedback after riding this weekend.

"Trading the future for the moment, one powder turn at a time"

pbfootnit.blogspot.com/ <<< the start of something good!

#11

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 8:01pm

SNPete
offline

Joined: April 2006
Location: Central Sierras
Post Count: 997

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA

Ok so I got my first "real" MTB a couple days ago. I was riding this summer an old undersized schwinn hardtail. My new bike is a 06 Haro Shift R5, 18inch frame size. My stats are 5'10 175lb with a 31 inch inseam(if that helps you at all). Tires are Kenda Komondo 2.1 inch tires set at 35 psi, this problem was much much worse at the 60psi the LBS had it set at. Tires arent the best but after lowering the pressure they really arent washing out anymore.

Now the problem is the bike just understeers and flat out refuse to turn sometimes. I really have to stand up and lean forward(uncomfortably so) to get enough weight on the front to get it to flow on tight singletrack. The front end feel light and there is much more of my body weight on the seat and not on the handle bars. Also some other thing I have noticed. The bike sits and feels much higher, and the seat tube is angled back much more than my old bike.

Here are my main questions...

So with all that info what can I change to make the bike a little more nimble and twitchy? Can I move the seat forward on the post and/or move the handle bars more upright/forward? I feel the bike needs more weight on the front and these are what I could come up with to get it ton happen, maybe you have a better idea than me.

Hope someone can help out this biking newb, or is it just the sucky rider causing these problems.

It's not the rider. On the surface the frame appears to be of the right size. The major factor that would affect the nibleness of the bike is the steepness of the front end (head angle) of the bike. Try this. You have a 5 inch fork? OK Increase the sag so it performs more like a 4 inch fork. If you don't know what sag is I will tell you, but if you do, I don't want to insult your intellegence. Normal sag is 20% of travel. Try 30%, By going to a shorter travel in the front you will steepen the head angle and that will make your bike more nimble. So will a shorter stem and lower handle bars. But less travel on the front will make the bike more nimble.

I hope this helps.

#12

Rating: 0

9/7/06 at 8:23pm

SNPete
offline

Joined: April 2006
Location: Central Sierras
Post Count: 997

A second thought. Not so great, but a chance to grow. You bought a 5 and 5 bike. probably with a 69 degree head angle. Typical trail freeride set up. Slack angles. designed for stabilty at speed in rough situations. Bottom line: the bike is a dog in tight turns, but shines on rough descents at speed.

You have two options. Learn how to use your bike if it fits your riding goals. Or modify the bike to fit your riding goals.

Personally, I value nimble handling over stability at speed. I also prefer the epic ride over the technical park experience. Thus I ride a 80mm steel HT. In a FS I would go for a 4 and 4 bike with a 70-71 head angle.

#13

Rating: 0

9/8/06 at 1:21am

DB
offline

Joined: December 2000
Location: Vienna, Austria via Manchester UK
Post Count: 1,880

Just a few thoughts ....

....... apologies if I am trying to "teach my grandmother to suck eggs"

1. How high is your seat in relation to your handles bars (above/below and by how much)

2. You could measure the geometry on both bikes and compare (basically the triangle between contact points - seat, handle bars, pedals. You need to measure distances and angles including the triangles relation to the ground when you are sat on the bike so as to include sag.) The differences might shine some light on your problem.

3. Sometimes we get used to certain things even if they are wrong, it could be that the new bike is set up properly but it will take time for you to get used to.

4. When you brake hard does the front of the bike dive hard?

5. In certain instances turning with the hips rather than the handle bars helped me.

Hope this helps.

#14

Rating: 0

9/8/06 at 7:57am

SNPete
offline

Joined: April 2006
Location: Central Sierras
Post Count: 997

I went to the Haro site. Your head angle is 71 degrees. So the bike should handle OK on singlerack. Seeing as your dealer put 60lbs of pressure in the tires my guess is that your fork and shock are probably set up wrong also. I would go back to she shop and have them set the bike up correctly for you. Including saddle position and stem length/rise.

Also bear in mind that a 5 inch travel FS bike is going to feel different than a HT. It does ride higher and will steer slower. Even slower than a 3 or 4 inch FS bike.

#15

Rating: 0

9/8/06 at 8:08am

Philpug
offline

Joined: September 2000
Location: NTS, PA
Post Count: 21,815

It's my fault. Sorry. I take full blame. I should have let you buy the Liquid. My bad. It won't happen again.

Click. Point. Chute.

#16

Rating: 0

9/8/06 at 11:39am

Rio
offline

Joined: March 2000
Location: Bozeman, MT
Post Count: 5,651

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese

It's my fault. Sorry. I take full blame. I should have let you buy the Liquid. My bad. It won't happen again.

What, that you won't buy another Liquid or that you won't quickly buy another toy before a fellow bear gets it?

In Bozeman waiting for first contact

#17

Rating: 0

9/8/06 at 11:48am

Philpug
offline

Joined: September 2000
Location: NTS, PA
Post Count: 21,815

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rio

What, that you won't buy another Liquid or that you won't quickly buy another toy before a fellow bear gets it?

The bike i ended up buying, I was origonally was going to buy for myself then I got cold feet and told Buash about it. I wen to look at the bike for him and he said if its nice he would buy it if I didn't want it. I went to look at it and at the time something just didn't feel "right" about it. I call him and told him that. About a day later, I realized what a good deal it was, and went back and bought it for myself. Follow?

Click. Point. Chute.

#18

Rating: 0

9/8/06 at 12:15pm

BushwackerinPA
offline

Joined: February 2005
Location: Stowe, Vt
Post Count: 6,115

Yeah the whole Liquid deal Phil got a heck of a deal on that one.

I am taking the bike back tonight to the shop to fix and adjsut some other unrelated problems. New bike syndrom I guess.

I have the seat set where I like now and it helped alittle with understeer problem, but I am thinking I got to get use to the bike too. The geometry is kinda of between a XC a trail bike feel very stable to me. Like I said to stable really nice going fast downhill though

. Where the understeer problem is non existent.

Also someback ground I use to race Inter-level BMX racing as young kid ,was getting ready to move to advance. Longtime ago I know but I know about I know about leaning and carving(with maybe alittle countersteer) instead of actually trying to turn via the handlebars.

I am the first person to blame myself normally and to be honest its not my skill it just the bike is so different. I was keeping up with advance ride groups locally on my beater schwinn. and despite the handling issues the first ride out on the new bike I was carry much more speed everywhere. More so downhill.

After reading as Icanskiformileandmiles eluded to 3 different forums responses, it appear the the answer to my problem is just to get out and ride the sucker, its a different bike than my old one and no way its was going to handle like my old one, in fact it probably handles better I just dont know it yet

.

I'll probably ride over 50 miles this weekend, I am not going to touch anything and after this weekend if there is still problems I ll revisit this topic.

"Trading the future for the moment, one powder turn at a time"

pbfootnit.blogspot.com/ <<< the start of something good!

#19

Rating: 0

9/8/06 at 1:54pm

Liam
offline

Joined: January 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Post Count: 546

I just checked out Haro's website for the geometry on this bike--pretty quick and xc-ish by today's standards actually-70 degree head angle, 73 degree seat angle, 12.5 BB height-23 inch top tube @18 inch bike size, sort of longish chainstays at 16.9 inches--but that mostly affects climbing (while adding stabilty-a trade off).

Frankly-at those numbers the bike should feel pretty xc-ish--the clue to me is that you said you want it to feel more 'twitchy'--there's been a general move away from twitchy handling towards stable and predictable (though-there are still plenty of race bikes that are twitchy if that's your bag). I'd say you're just not use to the feedback of this particular bike and you just need time in the saddle to get confidence laying it over and letting it track more aggressively. Like others have said-it's a different beast than your last vintage hard tail-it's going to ride/feel quite a bit different-like I said time in the saddle is the most likely cure--Have Fun!

Oh-the part spec is fine and appropriate for a bikeat this pricepoint-I wouldn't sweat any upgrade details until you really learn the iuns and outs of the bike.

#20

Rating: 0

9/11/06 at 1:30pm

BushwackerinPA
offline

Joined: February 2005
Location: Stowe, Vt
Post Count: 6,115

well I am chiming into say it was the me being use to an undersized bike. this weekend I rode 48 miles and the bike surprise surprise is great now. Climb like a champ, flows singletrack great, and before Downhill was already fun on it but even that got easier after riding it more I hit 25 mph on DH here in PA, that the fastest I have ever gone in the woods. also the new bike tackles the technical rock and root section here so nicely. My confindence level is like a 12 out of 10 right now.

I plan to enter a beginner race sometime soon on it. and hopefully get some action shots on it.

So so far there is 72 miles on the new rig since I got it last week next time out it will be playing in the rain on this wednesday

.

"Trading the future for the moment, one powder turn at a time"

pbfootnit.blogspot.com/ <<< the start of something good!

Tags

Other Threads

Recent Reviews

What Barking Bears Want

Got Facebook?

Already a User?

Create a New Account

Recent Discussions

Recent Reviews

Recent Wikis