Break it through: ride the skis

It is known among some old-time skiing instructors, the advent of snowboarding sport is probably one of best things happened to skiing industry and sport; it stimulated the development of shaped skis and reinvented carved turn techniques.

Shaped skis are nothing new, they have been done even in wooden ski days; only this time the "shape" has been made better and shorter. The "shape" is formed by the sidecuts that are a part of the arc of the turning radius of the ski, so it makes turning easier. The modern synthetic materials also make it possible to make ski fatter and shorter (typically, 15 to 20 cm shorter,) than conventional straighter ski. With shorter length and easier to maneuver, shaped skis are generally a better performance ski.

Come along with the shaped ski, the reinvention of carved turn techniques, which is also nothing new, it has been used by higher level skiers all the time. Only this time the "shape" of the ski generates a turning energy that makes carving so much easier and pronouncedly. Carved turn reinvented itself.

For decades, the downhill skiing scenes are dominated by a technique so-called "pole and shove," (pole for balance then shove the tail to change direction,) style of parallel turns. The techniques are sharpened somewhat as well as the equipment being improved, however, the basic turning techniques have not changed since the invention of lock-heel bindings.

In a closer look, a parallel turn proceeds in four definite phases: (1) pole-planting, (2) unweighting, (3) weight-shifting, and (4) traversing. A parallel turn begins at pole-planting, to initial the turning; unweighting to facilitate the switching of edges, thus changing direction; weight over to reset the edges so the skis run; then traversing until the next turn. A parallel turn follows a rather rigid routine, and the pole-plant gives the parallel turn a distinct "beat," which gives parallel skiing a "hopping" appearance.

However, a carved turn, on the other hand, requires an edge pressure to initiate the turn, a pole-plant would diminish the effect of such attempt. Thus, more carved turners start to forgo the pole-plant and go directly into a turn by shifting weight onto the turning edges to facilitate the turn; the no pole-plant carved turns start to appear across the ski slopes. Some eventually give up the poles altogether and the free-hands skiers start to make debut on the skiing scene.

Without pole-plant, a carved turn is executed by shifting weight directly onto turning edges and pressing the bowing reverse camber to carve through the snow. As ski crossing the fall-line, it stars to travel uphill, the reverse camber flattens, and the edges pressure diminishing. A "roll" on the ankle downhill-ward to switch the edges, shifting weight again, the next turn follows. The carved turns flow with gravity without the apparent "hopping" of the parallel turns. With their big GS-style turns across the groomed corduroys, carved turns are starting to change the scene of all-mountain freeskiing.

However, don't get oversold by carved turns, unless you are a racer or high-G addict, as carved turn is only one but turning technique; the foundation of all-mountain freeskiing remains in the snow contact. "Flatbboarding," to ski the board flat, will give you more control area, which gives you more ways to ski thus more maneuverable.

In contrast to the conventional parallel skiing, which uses poles to fight gravity to [up-]unweighting, ski without poles, the "flatbboarding" technique flows with gravity and utilizes down-weighting/unweighting techniques to change edges and to generate an angular acceleration for the turn.

By riding both skis relatively "flat" to the slope and equally weighed, a skier, squarely facing the fall-line, can travel fairly straight. The turning is done by shifting more weight to the inside of the turn; the weight difference between the two skis will cause the skis to change direction, so the skier turns. When a higher rate of turning is desired, then more edge pressure is added by moving the hips (where the center of gravity is located) into the turn even more.

Turning to the reverse direction can be initiated whenever the uphill ski gains control of the balance. Turning begins by "rolling" the ankles instead of "pivoting" as it does in parallel skiing. Rolling the ankles so the edges engage snow sooner, the edging is done a lot quicker, so is the turn.

By turning uphill to slowdown and turning downhill to speedup, minute slipping and skidding for track correction before it veers out of the intended course, flatbboarding flows continuously with gravity like riding a roller coaster track.

As you cruise down the mountain, riding on flatbboard, shooting its smooth esthetic line sweeping through the slope, fast, silent, eerie, yet, exciting as well. Is that not what thrilling of ski all about?

Thanks for reading,
IS

This message is hidden because taichiskiing is on your ignore list.

I can't help but notice that "flatboarding" as described above is exactly what an accomplished Eastern "carver" would have to do in order to get used to skiing powder when discovering west coast skiing. The whole ski is an edge. The snow won't take much of a load. Tipping the skis on too big an angle when the speed isn't there will only result in that sinking feeling.

Care to comment on skiing in deep powder?

A nice description of different types of turns. We need to have the ability to do everything with our skis. BTW skis can be parallel when carving, doing pivot turns, and when flatboarding, not just when doing the turns described above as parallel.

Although I'd never ski an entire day, or even an entire run the way he describes "flatboarding", it does seem very similar to the pivot turns competitive bump skiers occasionally use...very effective when skiing gnarly Eastern ice bumps.

Yes, treating "the whole ski is an edge" is a good idea in skiing the deep powder, as the powder snow is highly compressible, any edge pressure may cause the skier to dig into the powder too much and lose its balance. Riding on the whole ski as an edge, which reduces the edge pressure, may avoid such mishaps.

Also, in deep powder, the skis have little ability to go sideways/skidding, so the turning is not done by "steering" but the pressure difference between the two skis (pivot turns?). The difficulty is when flatboarding without using edges in the powder the skiing appears going too fast and doesn't seem want to turn, people get confused and try to do something and end up losing the balance and fall.

To combat such predicament, one must have the faith that the powder snow, now is covering the skis and maybe the whole boots, will slow one down, and the turn, due to uneven pressure of the skis' platform, will happen. So, the trick of deep powder skiing is the "subtle" pressure changes, subtle body movements and ski pressure changes.

I ski powder with my feet/skis close together, weight on the heels, and hands open forward facing the fall-line and counter-rotate against the skis (as in 60's doing the dance "twist," right hand against the turning/rotating of the left ski and vice versa), and flow with skis down.



Yes, if "carving" is "'turning' without 'skidding'," flatboarding is "carving" in deep powder.


IS

What is a "pivot turn"?

Yes, Flatboarding is more versatile, safer, and more funs techniques than Carving in free skiing.


IS

You obviously never ski anything remotely difficult on a classic east coast day. Try "flatboarding" down a groomed portion of White Heat, Outer Limits or many other trails on a blue ice day and then try to argue it safer.

Most people do need to flatten and redirect (pivot) skis at the beginning of each turn on runs that steep. Try carving (the whole turn leaving railroad tracks) on Outer Limits on a blue ice day! If you can do that, we need you on our national ski team.

Spare me the "east coast ice skiing challenge" talk, it's really getting boring. No, I don't think that New England icy skiing condition is any more difficult skiing condition/environment than the Western Mountains, Canadian Rockies, or Alaska. Though you have my deep sympathy; I skied New England seven "seasons."

While nothing really "holds" on ice, a set of flat skis give the skier more surface to control/balance on than the carving edges do. And flatboarding utilizes "slipping turns," (not "skidding turns,") where the tips of the skis are moving downward faster than carving/mid section, while "slipping" (not "skidding,") serves both "turning" function and "breaking" function. On mishaps, which usually is the tips got wash-out downward/forward, which can be recovered by maintaining the "flowing balance." Whereas when carving turn gets wash-out, the skier falls backward, and there's no recovery.

Yes, flatboarding is safer technique than carving, not just in general but on ice as well.


IS

IS,
I had a rather substantial post ready to post, but I think it got a little too arguementative, so I'll just say this. If you believe these techniques and methods are safer and more effective in all circumstances (in particularly skiing on steep, icy terrain) I say prove it. Actions speak louder than words, I'd love to see video proof that these concepts are safer in icy terrain.

Oh, and BTW, I wasn't complaining about the east, I was saying give me pity I'm an east coaster, and I wasn't comparing eastern to western skiing, I was simply stating that the east is more prone to bad icy conditions and that often times, different conditions require different approached.


Telerod, I also disagree, most people do not need to flatten and redirect (pivot) skis at the beginning of each turn on runs that steep, however more often they do so typically because of a lapse in confidence or ability or simply as an adaptation to make a turn.

Let's see the video, of you doing RR turns on Outer Limits.

Is there a video, no. Could I do it (groomed and iced), potentially (I have done em down Avalanche at Cannon as well as many other areas as well). Would I say that I would be skiing at a comfortable speed, no way in hell. Would I say that its the right way to ski Outer Limits, no. Skiing is about variables and being able to adjust to different conditions. Did I ever say that pivoting at the begining of the turn was wrong, no, I stated it could be a flaw or lapse or an adaptation (difference being intent and knowledge). Starting the turn with a pivoting movement is not "need"ed although is an option.

Ok video of you making RR tracks on "Avalanche" (sounds steep!).

You admit it would be an "uncomfortable" speed. Why would it be a flaw or lapse if one were to avoid excessive speed by steering (pivoting) their skis? Steering the beginning of the turn into the fall line may allow a carved finish without gaining too much speed, which is what I would be shooting for. I speak for most skiers. not the top 1% that you may be among.

You speak of groomed and iced conditions, but I only have seen intentional icing of runs for racing, never for the public. What do you mean by groomed and iced?

I still think if you can carve like figure skates on iced Outer Limits, you should represent your country in the Olympic Games. Show me a video of ANYONE trenching Outer Limits on skis.

Avalanche is not that bad of a trail, however, it is relatively steep and many people consider it one of the toughest trails at Cannon (which is also known for its heaven and hell conditions, very prone to complete ice and beautiful powder, and well as beautiful weather to bone-chilling sub-zero windy as hell days), it has some pitch and is usually about 50/50 bumps/groomed. Overall, its not that bad a trail, shorter than White Heat and Outer Limits, probably a little less steep, but about in the same class.

Furthermore, please read all my words, I never said it is a flaw or lapse, I said it could be a flaw or lapse. When used as you describe, it would be an adaptation as defined by a conscious choice to not carve the begining of a turn, which is not wrong (as I said, defined by intent and knowledge).

Also, when stating groomed and iced, I am speaking of the fact that often times, half of Outer Limits is groomed while the other half is bumped. As well as the fact the many times the groomed side will ice up due to weather and/or skier traffic, not that its done intentionally as with racing.

And to use Outer Limits as an analysis point for Olympic Level skiing is rediculous. Outer Limits is a decent trail, but not nearly as tough as people think. It is the bumps and how they blow the snow and allow the bumps to form that makes it difficult. Yes there is some pitch to it but ski Jackson, Whistler, Alta, and so many other places and you'll ski some blues that have the same pitch. I do not condone people skiing Outer Limits without the proper levels of experience, but I have seen many a person who did not belong on such terrain (you can see the fear in their eyes, and I've seen some people walk down it - huge mistake on anything with pitch) make it to the bottom. Skiing it and surviving it are two totally different animals.

There's steeper at Jackson and Alta, but race courses rarely have the same average pitch as Outer Limits. If you can carve icy Outer Limits no problem, you are good enough to make the US team. Maybe not Austria's team.

I don't have arguments with you, I pretty much agree with every thing you say.

Blues out west aren't steeper than Outer Limits. That's a joke! And conditions are so easy on blue run out west! Groomed! Easterner comes down no sweat and says to himself and everyone within ear shot how much steeper it was than "Avalanche". Get out your inclimeter, it's not steeper and conditions make it a cake walk!

Just say no to groomers out west. If you are comparing blue west to black east, you are wasting your vacation. Stay east until you can ski off piste. Save your money!

I skied Alta and Jackson and admittedly avoided blue and groomed like the plague but I know there is no blue trail in the world that has anything close to Outer Limit's average grade. I hate easterners who claim this jive (present company excepted). If a blue run out west is marginally steeper than eastern blue run, it still skis MUCH easier because conditions are so kind.

Blue runs are easier out west.

Has anyone figured out whether or not this TaiChi guy is a troll yet?!

IMO, he is not a troll. The rule I use is:

"Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity."

Just don't hit the "quote" button.

If you enjoy the thrilling of going fast, try flatboarding.


IS

At the risk of being castrated for using the Quote button...TaiChiSkiing,

I do enjoy "the thrilling of going fast," (almost as much as I enjoy being given carte blanche to butcher the english language!) which is precisely why I learned to carve a turn...I wanted to make sure I didn't go flatboarding into an inanimate object.

TCS,
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by a slipping turn as opposed to a skidded turn?

BTW. As I understand it, the term pivot turn implies that one is using a rotation of the skiers body and transferring the rotational enertia to the skis in order to change the direction they are pointing in, like doing the "twist" (old dance). One might best be able to demonstrate a pivot turn at the top of a bump with the neither the tips nor tails touching the snow. The term skidded turn implies to me that one's skis are moving at an angle to the direction they are pointing. In a skidded turn the ski can be forced through the snow using the skier's inertia to push the skis where they are wanted to go (poor technique, but suitable in emergencies), or by angling the skis and weighting them so that the snow surface suplies the forces on the skis and controls where they go (good skidded turns).

And if that's not fast enough for you, try a wedge!

Guys, this has to be a put on. No one could be this dumb. Could they? :

But, in the chance you are serious there grasshopper, all I can say is; Care to race ? You slide em, I'll ride em. We could even make it interesting. How's $10,000 sound? What dya say? Hmmmm, Hmmmm? :

I've got $100 on Rick

Why do you think that you going to running into some inanimate object if you go flatboarding? You may not turn as quick as carving, but with flatboarding you do see the "line" better straight ahead and make proper turn without that "hard" turning. As I said in the other thread, you go faster if you ski the "inside ski line" instead of the "outside ski line."


IS

Based on the quality of a turn, a downhill ski turn can be classified in three categories: carved turn, skidded turn, and slipped turn.

A carved turn is made by the technique called "carving," where the ski is made traveling along the curvature of reverse chamber of the ski without any slippage; i.e. the tail of the ski follows the tip of the ski along the curved path in a synchronized manner. A skidded turn happens when the tail of the ski moves downhill with a slightly faster rate than the tip of the ski, which causes the ski over-turn. And a slipped turn is when the tip of the ski moves downhill faster than the tail, which straightens the curved path somewhat, is an under-turn.

What makes the carving turn so special is that, while both skidding and slipping rob the speed/energy of the ski, carving maintains its turning ability without losing its speed. The caveat is, nevertheless, that the skier must continue to turn to carve, thus reduces the skier's forward velocity/speed.

Most of parallel turns are done with skidding turn, where skidding serves dual purposes of breaking and turning.

Though flatboarding employs all three techniques to maintain a proper/desired line, it generally utilizes flat board and slipping turn for faster speed and straighter line downhill.

A flatboard "slipping turn" is done by slipping the inside ski (braker) while keep the outside ski flat (runner); runner runs, and braker brakes, with the different speed of the two skis, "slipping turn" turns.




Then "slipping turn" is not a "pivot turn" as someone has suggested.


IS

Are you serious? What kind of format the race going to be?


IS

How about Chinese Downhill?

Can I race too, even if I don't put up any cash? (I'm not expecting to win, I would just like to be there to see it; my speed days are long behind me.)

TCS,
If I understand you then, your definition of a slipped turn is one where the tips skid a bit but the heels not so much, like understeering in a car (typical front-wheel drive or family sedan into a corner too hot), and what you refer to as skidded is one where the tails are skidding, like being pushed out or like trailing-throttle oversteer in a car (where the back wheels try to pass the front wheels as a car skids out of control after lifting the foot off the gas in a corner).

I can see how "understeering" a turn so that it is not steering so hard off the fall line could be seen as being more on the fall line and thus faster, but if so, don't you think that carving that same line as the "slipped" turn takes you (ie with less edge angle or less shape to the ski) not be faster still?