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Do-it-yourself Ski Wax

#1
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With the price of wax, I was curious if anyone had a method of making their own ski wax. I was thinking that you could start with some paraffin (cheap) and introduce some type of hardener.

Obviously, you would not want to use this sort of concoction for racing, but for an everyday all purpose wax this approach might save you a few bucks.

Any ideas.
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#2
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buy your wax in bulk. it's not that expensive. avoid the small packages of wax. You are paying for all the marketing. I don't think you would save a great deal of money making your own wax.

DC
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#3
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#4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan
Can't beat that price... gonna order some. Thanks!
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#5
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Also, look at www.skiwax.ca, the product is Glide bulk wax. I recall paying 6.50 CDN for a 200 gm bar....
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#6
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dchan, thanks for the tip!
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#7
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Thanks guys, solves the problem!
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#8
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If you're really cheap, keep your work area clean, spread some plastic and collect the scrapings.
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#9
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A friend (who may choose to identify himself) recently told me that he has used parafin to great advantage. It doesn't last as long, but works fine. Also, he mentioned that he rubs it on first, and thus uses less than if he just drips it on. This works especially well for softer waxes. I'm going to try this for Sunday...

Stephen Hultquist
Insatiable learner, Truth seeker, Vocabulary stretcher, Friend
...sharing my learning through speaking,
a book, guiding, writing, and consulting/coaching
I travel a lot. If you'd like to follow my journeys, I'm on Twitter

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#10
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I've tried rubbing it on and then ironing but have never been able to get it to work. Let us know if you figure out how to do it so the rubbed on wax actually melts into the base.
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#11
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Will do... He mentioned heating the iron to just before it smokes (not sure how you tell that!)

Stephen Hultquist
Insatiable learner, Truth seeker, Vocabulary stretcher, Friend
...sharing my learning through speaking,
a book, guiding, writing, and consulting/coaching
I travel a lot. If you'd like to follow my journeys, I'm on Twitter

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#12
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Formerly $100 an OUNCE???

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchan
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...8/MN101233.DTL

"Less visible innovations include high-tech ski waxes capable of working at all temperatures and snow types. One such product has been marketed as "Super Hot Sauce," an "all-temperature, all-conditions" ski wax developed by University of California at Davis chemist Timothy Donnelly.

The wax features a soaplike surfactant added to the waxy mix in a formula that brings the soap molecules to the surface when needed. It's all designed for durability, flexibility -- and, most of all, extreme slipperiness.

That might have made a difference in medal-winning performances at the 1988 and 1994 Winter Games.

The latest variation on the product may be on the skis of U.S. freestyle skier Johnny Mosely of Tiburon, who received a sample courtesy of Palo Alto- based Terry Hertel, a former business partner of Donnelly's. Hertel calls it "White Gold," available for Olympic wannabes at $100 an ounce.

One thing sports-gear makers aren't is bashful. "It's the ultimate product I ever developed," Hertel said. "This is the product that won the Olympics for the U.S. in 1994. It's four seconds faster than anything else on the market."

Mosely may have to settle for "White Gold" at this Olympics. In the men's moguls, he finished in fourth place."
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#13
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slickest all temp I've found

PurlWax@GMail.com
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#14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
Will do... He mentioned heating the iron to just before it smokes (not sure how you tell that!)
Kind of like the old joke where the guy on the subway asks another guy "do you know where the Bleeker Street stop is?" and the other guy says "Just watch me and get off the stop before I do."

:

Nothing can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

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#15
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Quote:
Originally posted by SSH
A friend (who may choose to identify himself) recently told me that he has used parafin to great advantage. It doesn't last as long, but works fine. Also, he mentioned that he rubs it on first, and thus uses less than if he just drips it on. This works especially well for softer waxes. I'm going to try this for Sunday...
Steve, I was a bit sceptical when I first read this but having tried it I found it worked well with softer waxes. Just to be on the safe side I rub it on and then drip a small amount (but much less than if I hadn't rubbed it in). Makes scraping them much easier and quicker and I found I could go straight to a soft brush after scraping.
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#16
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Low tech wax

I'm gliding nicely along on the flats on my freshly waxed, scraped, brushed and buffed skis. A friend of mine goes past me like I was standing still. I caught up with him a little later and asked him what kind of wax he was using. "Oh," he said, "I melted some of my wife's old bayberry candles, ironed it in and scraped it." And they smell nice too!
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh
A friend (who may choose to identify himself) recently told me that he has used parafin to great advantage. It doesn't last as long, but works fine. Also, he mentioned that he rubs it on first, and thus uses less than if he just drips it on. This works especially well for softer waxes. I'm going to try this for Sunday...
Steve, I will be on parafin Sunday too. I think I know who your friend is and when I skied with him a few weeks ago he glided away from me and my freshly waxed skis. I had heard of parafin for spring skiing and actually had some in my workbench. But this day it was in the 20's and he was still gliding faster than any of us. We'll see tomorrow, though it looks like some weather will be blowing in. Lew
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#18
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I always get stuck going to candle parties with my wife. So I salvage the old candles and use them to hot wax my skis. These are scented candles and smell good when waxing. She just recently tossed a very large candle about nine inches in diameter with three wicks. I will have wax for a long time. I also have a bar of regular ski wax.

Paraffin is a hydrocarbon, a long thin molecular chain . This wax will absorb deeper into the structure of your ski base, but is physically delicate and doesn't last.

Ski wax is a combination of hydrocarbon and fluorocarbon. Fluorocarbon has a more complex molecular structure, making it tougher. and is more water repellant. Hydrocarbon and Fluorocarbon don't like to mix, so the manufacture of ski wax is not easy.

I feel comfortable using old candles to wax my skis because I hot wax each time I go out. I don't worry about durability. Hey, some people never wax their skis!

BTW - almost all chocolate contains paraffin. Truthfully, in a pinch, like when snow is sticking to your skis, you could smear a hershey bar on your skis to get down the hill.
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#19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruxpercnd
I always get stuck going to candle parties with my wife. So I salvage the old candles and use them to hot wax my skis. These are scented candles and smell good when waxing. She just recently tossed a very large candle about nine inches in diameter with three wicks. I will have wax for a long time. I also have a bar of regular ski wax.

Paraffin is a hydrocarbon, a long thin molecular chain . This wax will absorb deeper into the structure of your ski base, but is physically delicate and doesn't last.

Ski wax is a combination of hydrocarbon and fluorocarbon. Fluorocarbon has a more complex molecular structure, making it tougher. and is more water repellant. Hydrocarbon and Fluorocarbon don't like to mix, so the manufacture of ski wax is not easy.

I feel comfortable using old candles to wax my skis because I hot wax each time I go out. I don't worry about durability. Hey, some people never wax their skis!

BTW - almost all chocolate contains paraffin. Truthfully, in a pinch, like when snow is sticking to your skis, you could smear a hershey bar on your skis to get down the hill.
Thanks for the explanation. I just got in a Ray'sWay waxing tool. If I like the parafin, it is easy to wax up again with this kit. Don't need no stinkin' iron for a quick fix. Are you old enough to remember the soft silver wax that we used to rub on for spring skiing? It worked, but I wasn't experienced enough to know how to get it off the next fall. This was the 60's and I didn't know anything about ski tuning. I was living in Colorado. Who needed a sharp edge? I didn't know what ice was-on a ski slope anyway. LewBob
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#20
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Quote:

Originally posted by LewBob
Are you old enough to remember the soft silver wax that we used to rub on for spring skiing? It worked, but I wasn't experienced enough to know how to get it off the next fall. This was the 60's and I didn't know anything about ski tuning. I was living in Colorado. Who needed a sharp edge? I didn't know what ice was-on a ski slope anyway. LewBob
LOL. Who could forget the the old Toko silver wax!!?? I bought a bar when I got my first pair of skis in 1970 and used it religously until 1974 when one of the guys at Uni showed us how to hotwax! The bar lasted for ever and you it was easy to see you hadn't missed a bit!!

Geez, I have just realized I must have also used it on my first race skis as well: (On the other hand I am sure it worked well on the mix of slush and heather that was the norm a lot of the time!!)
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#21
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Most ski waxes are just hydrocarbon, without any fluorocarbons. There's not a great reason, I don't think, for non-racers to use fluoros.

Fluorocarbons aren't more complex than hydrocarbons, they just have fluorine atoms in place of some or all of the hydrogen atoms in a hydrocarbon (nor are more complex molecules stronger: there are complex molecules that are unstable or explosive). If all the Hs are replaced, it's called a "perfluorcarbon." The F-C bond is stronger than the H-C, so they're relatively more inert, along with having various other different chemical properties. It's worth noting that there are lots of different sorts of fluorocarbons: short-chain ones are gases; Teflon is a long-chain perfluorocarbon; grind Teflon into powder and people use it as a dry lubricant for guns and various things.

Hydrocarbon waxes are mostly paraffin, with some synthetic hydrocarbons added to make a harder wax. If you want to get a full roster of standard-issue HC wax cheap, you could buy paraffin and a small amount of blue wax, and mix to your desired hardness.

On the other hand, the cost for the ski-specific HC wax needed to do one pair of skis varies from maybe 30 cents or so, if you buy in bulk, to maybe $2, if you buy the highest priced little bars.
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#22
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I follow Dr. D's method (www.racewax.com) to wax my kid's skis all season long. Even after multiple (re)apply-brush-scrapes every time, the rub-on thing really uses very little wax.
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#23
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It wasn't the detergent that cost serious money

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstraw
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...8/MN101233.DTL

"Less visible innovations include high-tech ski waxes capable of working at all temperatures and snow types. One such product has been marketed as "Super Hot Sauce," an "all-temperature, all-conditions" ski wax developed by University of California at Davis chemist Timothy Donnelly.

The wax features a soaplike surfactant added to the waxy mix in a formula that brings the soap molecules to the surface when needed. It's all designed for durability, flexibility -- and, most of all, extreme slipperiness.
Trust the popular press not to talk about the perfluoropolyether diols AKA magnetic drive lubricants:
Quote:
Originally Posted by US5114482
The perfluoropolyether diols include those containing --OCF2 --and/or --OCF2 CF2 --and/or --OCF2 CF2 CF2 --units and the like. See, for instance, Burguette et al., U.S. Pat. No. 4,526,833. The synthesis of perfluoropolyether diols is known in the art. See, for instance, Caporiccio, "A New Series of Lubricants for Magnetic Recording Media from Bifunctional Perfluoropolyether Derivatives", Symposium on Memory and Advanced Recording Technologies, San Jose, Calif. (1986). One particularly preferred perfluoropolyether diol is a perfluoropolyethylene diol commercially available from the Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company, Industrial Chemical Products Division, St. Paul, Minn., under the tradename FC 2202. Other perfluoropolyether diols are also commercially available. For instance, a perfluoropolyether diol containing a mixture of --OCF2 --and --OCF2 CF2 --units is available under the tradename of FOMBLIN Z DOL from Montedison, S.p.A. (Milan, Italy).

The perfluoropolyether diol is incorporated into the ski wax as a lubricity agent. Surprisingly, it has been found that ski waxes containing such perfluoropolyether diols provide excellent lubricity over a wide range of temperatures, from as low as about -20 DEG F. (and lower) to as high as about 50 DEG F. (and higher). That is to say that the optimal performance of the wax is not limited to a specific narrow temperature range as heretofore found with prior art ski waxes. Additionally, such ski waxes have an appreciable lifetime on the ski surface. The lifetime of the wax is the time between first waxing the skis and when the skis need to be waxed again. In fact, lifetimes up to about three days can be achieved by the use of the compositions described herein as opposed to an average lifetime of several individual runs from currently available ski waxes.
Also notice the paraffin proportions:
Quote:
When formulated as a solid, the ski wax compositions of the present invention contain at least one perfluoropolyether diol compatible vehicle. Because the cost of the compatible vehicle is generally much greater than that of typical paraffin wax vehicles heretofore employed in ski waxes, paraffin wax is preferably employed in combination with the compatible vehicle. When paraffin wax is employed, it is used as a covehicle.
<MEGASNIP>
When employed, the paraffin wax is used as a covehicle with the perfluoropolyether diol compatible vehicle and can generally be employed up to about 98 weight percent of the entire ski wax composition. Preferably, the paraffin wax is employed in an amount from about 80 weight percent up to about 98 weight percent of the entire ski wax composition; and more preferably from about 85 to about 95 weight percent of the entire ski wax composition.
<MEGASNIP>
The solid ski wax compositions described herein can contain optional ingredients such as a hardening agent, a surfactant, a colorant, and the like. Suitable hardening agents include known Fischer-Tropsch waxes.
<KILOSNIP>
In a preferred embodiment, the solid ski wax composition disclosed herein includes a water soluble surfactant or "surface active wetting agent" in an amount up to 20% by weight. The surfactant, due to its amphiphatic properties, is added to form an aqueous transition layer between the waxed surface of the ski and the snow. This greatly reduces the force required to move the ski over the surface of the snow. The surfactant may be selected from the group consisting of an anionic, a cationic, a nonionic or a zwitterionic surface active agent.

 anticooler than you

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#24
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PS LewBob: more fun at the DIY store.

For the complete "1960s Toko silver wax" look just take some graphite lock lube and sprinkle it on the bases before you rub your paraffin in in in . . .

 anticooler than you

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#25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waxwhizard
It's not just about the cost of wax but also how much you waste in applying it. If you use the waxWHIZard you will get the benefit of hot waxing and use 90 % less wax. Check it out at http://www.alpineskituning.com
WaxWhizard is correct in that the actual wax application is the key to receiving the actual benefits that wax has to offer. The reality is that proper occasional hot waxing, combined with a daiy rub-on program, offers the best balance of abrasion protection and performance for the average expert ski enthusiast on down.

However, many people feel that an abraided base is only "dry" devoid of wax, and that a good hot waxing will remedy the situation. This is simply not true. When graphite base material turns "grey" it means that the actual graphite portion of the base material has actually been torn away.

Abrasion may also be accelerated through the improper use of the iron, exposing the delicate base material to excessive heat. Once these "hot spots" occur, the base has actually become "sealed" or "extruded" and will not absorb the wax that everyone so desperately wants to get in the base.

If you want to find out more about the importance of a proper base finish and how it relates to overall performance, check out www.precisiontuningcenter.com

Skidoc
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#26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruxpercnd
I salvage the old candles and use them to hot wax my skis. These are scented candles and smell good when waxing.

BTW - almost all chocolate contains paraffin. Truthfully, in a pinch, like when snow is sticking to your skis, you could smear a hershey bar on your skis to get down the hill.
LOL!
Well, I was gonna go buy me some canning paraffin -- but I have TONS of half-used candles lying around - What an Idea!! (smacks self in forehead)

But as for the chocolate.... There ain't NO WAY I'm going to waste a perfectly good chocolate fix on my skiis - I'll just ski slower that day!
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#27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFRAU
LOL!
but I have TONS of half-used candles lying around -
Haven't discovered black-wax cheddar yet, huh? I mean a half-used candle is still useful, right?


Watch out for the dyes in those candles, esp. with non-black sintered bases. (Half-promise to post pictures of permanently tie-dyed bases here, but that's, like, work). Soy-wax candles or glycerin ones won't last as long as paraffin, either, especially on snowgun snow.

Speaking of snowgun snow, why are you doing this instead of a nice brick of blue CH wax?

 anticooler than you

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#28
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error in facts?

I received an email today from someone identifying themself as Terry Hertel.. I have no reason to doubt this person. He has basicly sent a clarification to some of the facts here that might be in error.

I responded to him in an email inviting him to join our discussion but here's the contents of the email as I believe he want's to set the record straight.

--------------------------

In a message on your site it says I was a business partner of Tim Donnelly. I paid Tim $3,000.00 for help with my first formula. That was it. Terry Hertel formulates all Hertel products. Tim was in the physical chem. department at UC Davis. I spent the better part of my life developing Super Hotsauce, Racing FC739 and SpringSolution. I then developed the White Gold of Which Jonny did not use in 2002. In a brief meeting with him last week he told me so.


-------------------------
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#29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex
For the complete "1960s Toko silver wax" look just take some graphite lock lube and sprinkle it on the bases before you rub your paraffin in in in . . .
Actually it is silver due to magnesium. We used to throw bits in the fire...the wax burns off first, then a bright white flash occurs when the magnesiun ignites. You can't imagine a better way for kids to pass the time while the parents get drunk.

There are still some silver nordic waxes, and I see some vintage alpine wax on ebay once in a while. I haven't bought any but I always copy the photos.
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#30
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We're mostly big kids here, right?

That's sounds even more fun than beer cans.

 anticooler than you

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