Toni Sailer throws it down re Bode!

must read article in NY times today re Bode Miller and his wc victory, In the article Toni Sailer is quoted "I say in a test of becoming a certified ski instructor, he(Bode) might fail"

Love it!!!!

Bring on the comments bears....

Sour, nay bitter, bitter grapes!

Why is it that past champions can't let go, especially to Bode.

Does Bode so threaten their place in history? You'd think Toni would be secure by now.

Do you think he's taking a shot at Bode or at the instructor's certification process?

L7: Valid question, the answer to which could change one's views on the comment.

However, I'd be surprised if the comment isn't derisvie towards Bode.

The Austrian old guard is unlikely to warm up a Yankee world champion, especially in light of frosty US-European relations these days.

If that's true then Bode would probably fail.

I tend to think that's what he means as well. BUT I tend to want to believe the latter.

I'd like to think a great champion would be more intelligent. I'm sure Bode skiing as he does today wouldn't pass a cert in Sailer's day but then that day is very long gone.

Reminds me of the way people rushed up to trivialize Bill Johnson's OLympic victory in the Downhill.

That's quite a bit different. Check Johnson's results after he broke that one pair of skis that got him his wins on flat long courses with soft wet snow.

I don't know Sailer and his "sense of humor," but I read it as an ironic comment, not necessarily swiping either Bode or certification. It's well known that Bode skis "differnt," and the Austrians tried to figure him out, and decided that they couldn't copy him.

As far as Bill J, his win WAS more of a fluke than winning the overall WC title, as well as posting decent results like Bode has over the past few years. (I'm not calling Bill Johnson a fluke; just saying Bode is waaaaay more of a racer, results-wise, than BJ, and you wouldn't really compare the two, IMO.)

Perhaps if someone could post the text of the whole article (or a link), it might be a little easier to figure out what Sailer meant.


Bob

ooops bad bad newbie bear:...haven't figured out how to post a whole article yet, sorry....www.nytimes.com - membership is free...headlines can be sent to your inbox every day....
or if you prefer....http://nytimes.com/todaysheadlines

Read the article, really no further context.

The problem with the printed word, is that it lacks a sense of time and mood. If Sailer made the comment with a warm smile, probably no harm was meant. If his mood was stern and intent, well...

No way to know.

The Austrians seem to be getting a little pissy about the whole thing don't they? I think Sailor is talking about Bode's style-his form if you will. The kid's different. There's nobody ever going to be able to imitate Musial's style in the batters box either-nor would they necessarily want to. It's generally agreed he was a great hitter however. My 2 cents.

Toni Sailer was probably talking about becoming an instructor in Europe. Bode Miller may not ski in the required style for that test. But I don't know why Sailer would bother saying something like that.

But let's bring it close to home. Anybody think that Bode Miller has the knowledge to pass the Level lll test tomorrow?

I think Sailer was referring to Miller's gumby style "unrestrained, unorthodox style." I maybe wrong but I don't think that Miller has ever had training as a ski instructor and may have problems demonstrating the wedge christies correctly. Besides Sailer has nothing to prove to anyone lest they repeat his feat.

....Ott

I am sure that the same thing can be said about Franz Klammer. Do you remember the way he used to bash the gates. ...Very unorthodox, but VERY fast! I don't think that he was taking a shot at Bode. I would just take his statement at face value.

Let's take it one step further.....

exactly the comment I was looking for....

let's see - the greatest skier on the planet( at least in the eyes of most people on the planet who care and fair and square via FIS) couldn't pass a Level III exam...( or probably a Level II exam) and skis with a "gumby" style - and could care less about ATS, the centerline or any of that stuff.....apparent facts that Sailer tries to make relevant....yep Eric Clapton, couldn't get into Berklee School of Music either....he can play tho..just a bit.

..further- up until Bode jumped on the 198 K2 fours and ripped up the junior downhill who cared about parabolic skis? Most instructors I knew(including me BTW) still maintained the "sss" attitude - now everyone is on the bandwagon for obvious reasons, the technology is better (I showed up at my hill in 1997 on Volkl Carver Plus with Salomon Propulse in 191cm and was laughed at by the old schoolers in my ski school) .....what does this say about ATS?.....could there be a backlash?? Is Bode's way the better way, and what is the perception of the average guest looking to get better....PSIA/ CSIA or ski with BODE?....anybody seen a 205 Olin RTS on the hill lately?.....just thinking out loud and probably pushing one dude's comments too far....but I read what Phil Mahre said too...whaddayousay?? I ask cause idunno....but I was looking to generate some thoughtful opinion.....I see a backlash coming and I think ski schools better prepare for it tho I am not currently teaching, maybe it is already a topic of discussion. if not....???? Not taking a shot at anyone here...just trying to stir up some thought....wouldn't want to be accused of fluff

BTW Bode is good enuff to be Ambassador at Bretton Woods...but nobody can ski there right??? Too flat for level 8/9 technique.....???

You can not conclude anything unless you know more about the context of the comment. I remember a few years ago when Austrian downhill great Andreas Schifferer commented that "today I skied pretty, like a ski instructor". This caused a commotion among the ski instructors as they took it as critisism. What Schifferer meant was that unless you were willing to let it hang out and having to depend on some recoveries you were not going to be fast enough to win. I believe Sailer's comment is similar in that what Bode does is really hang it out and then ski incredibly fast and he is capable of recovery because he is so strong and such a phenomenal athelete. Bode has tremendous respect among other ski racers in Europe for skiing so fast. But he blew up on the race course a lot in the beginning (still has a fair number of DNF's) and it took a long time for him to be able to get to the point of surviving to the finish line. Now he is WC overall champion a phenomenal accomplishment. However, when it comes to what style is going to work for 95% of ski racers it will have to be Raich's style more than Bode's. As to passing the ski instructor test, if you judge his race runs as technique demonstrations I think he he might fail as he is "unable" to show steady solid "pretty" skiing.

I just read the NY Times article. The paragraph preceeding the Sailer comment started by saying that Miller skied in an off-kilter style. And that his fastest runs looked like one continous recovery. Then it went to Phil Mahre's comment that Miller's style resembled that of Gumby. (No insult... just that Miller was so flexible)

Sailer's sentence followed in the next paragraph. He was just reacting in the vein of the previous comments. No insult intended.

ideal gas law! great alias!

The comment sounds like a jab at his technique yet it was that same (lack of) technique that won him the overall title.

By analogy it seems like Bode is the Bruce Lee of skiing right now by not subscribing to any particular technique other than what is fast and the technique purists just can't accept it.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but do we really think Bode cares about PSIA certification? He's a ski racer, hasn't made any bones about that. He skis how every ski instructor should strive to ski...naturally. It's what works best for him and is the most efficient, isn't that the epitome of good skiing?

Here's another quote by Sailer that should clear any doubt about what he truly thinks about Bode

"He is one of the real big ones," said Toni Sailer, the Austrian who won three golds at the 1956 Olympics. "In each decade you had one top skier." Sailer named Killy, Klammer, Girardelli, Tomba, Maier and Miller.

Therefore, he definitely was just commenting on Bode's relatively unorthodox style.... You can't say anything bad about a winner that's won fair and square. Also...Bode is still one of the few (if only one) racers who entered every race this season. That's another big thing in Bode's favor as far as any possible negative comments from the old school ski establishment.

[quote=marcski]... Therefore, he definitely was just commenting on Bode's relatively unorthodox style.... QUOTE]

And to think otherwise is jaw-droppingly kooky -- the article is crystal clear. Talk about conspiracy theorizing!

???????? :

Trying to figure out what this crypticism is all about, but if I need to spell it out, I will: one would have to be willfully ignorant to read any disrespectin' into Sailer's comment on Bode. It's just natty to suggest he's somehow dissing Bode based on the NY Times article.

appreciate your support....welcome to epicski - 600 posts in 3months and I have the honor of the thread which logged no 600, where's my kayak so's I can fish that hr ball out of sf bay..... I have something to aspire to I guess gotta pick up the pace....WTFH record could be in jeopardy... now back to our natty topic.....

Certified instructor? Who gives a damn about that nonsense, this is racing and he is fast and won the overall. Racers and high level freeskiiers should be the one's dictating what is proper form, not instructors skiing boring groomed crap.

True! It's a bit like assessing Michael Schumacher's form to see if he's qualifed to become a driving instructor.

>>>Racers and high level freeskiiers should be the one's dictating what is proper form<<<

Oh Yeah, here comes the never-ever skier lugging his skis held cross-wise in front of him to the racing hill and approaches a racer who just posted a fast time and asks: "I want to ski like you, please teach me".

Here you have a never-ever skier and a never-ever teacher, what a comedy skit that would be <grin>

....Ott

Every successful champion has taken the fundamentals and made any adjustments necessary for them to make it to the top. This year it's Bode, next year it will be..., the year after that it will be...

Fundamentals don't change just because of who is champion each year. For consistency, a fundamental standard is adopted. There is a theoretical way to ski most efficiently... then there is the real world. Some people ski picture perfect and some (most) people don't. All racers struggle for an ideal line and ideal form- none accomplish it all the time. Some like Bode do their own thing from day one- the majority never make it to the podium.

I've seen skiers and tennis players alike who hire a coach and then reject all the input given. ..."I'm tired of losing, but I don't want to change anything... Then work it out on your own dude.

Not going to try to climb into Toni's mind.. Bode is one of the best to ever hit the slopes. However, his temperament (and technique) is far from ideal for teaching those less accomplished than he.