WARNING: Salomon 912/914 binding early release problems

thought I'd throw out a warning for skiers out there with Salomon 912/914 bindings

this weekend, the bindings on my left ski (with a 912 binding) released unexpectedly and for no reason on a steep run at Squaw, even with the DIN set at 11

almost got creamed until I self arrested the fall and stopped short of a cliff

I noticed others on the TGR board complaining about their model 912/914 bindings for the same reasons (see below) and thought I'd put out a shout to you guys that ski with them to make sure to check the screws to be sure they are tight before doing anything crazy on them like hucking big cliffs

all fyi...stay safe out there





Arty50
Super Deluxe Ultra Log Join Date: May 2002
Location: Huh?
Posts: 2,509

Avoid 914s like the plague. I hated my pair and know several other skiers that have similar feelings about them.

I'm convinced there are two problems with them.

The first involves the wing adjustment screw. Old Sollies had two screws, one for each wing. The 912/4 series switched to a single screw. The damn thing is always backing out, and as a result you need to constantly readjust the toe wings. By constantly I'm talking once a week at the bare minimum.

The second problem is the new AFD. The old AFD allows release directly to the sides only. The new AFD sits on a ball pivot of sorts. In some prereleases, I could actually feel my toe rotate and pop out of the binding. In other words, when your foot angulates into a turn and pressures the AFD it releases because the rotation of your foot coincides with the rotation of the AFD on that stupid little ball.

916s are based on the old 997 toe. S900s are similar in their workings too. I feel they are superior bindings because they have two screws for the toe wings which seems to require less frequent adjustment; and also because they have a standard AFD that only releases along the horizontal plane.

As for race stock (916s, S900s DIN 9-16, 997s DIN 9-16) versus regular S900s and 997s, that's your call. Race stock binders are all metal which carries a trade off. They're practically indestructible, but weigh a bit more. I'm a big fan of 916s, and the weight doesn't matter much to me. I put over 40-50 days on my first pair without having to touch the wing adjustment. Metal screws seem to hold much better in metal wings. The second pair still hasn't needed an adjustment. The release on them is awesome. I've never prereleased, but have come out only when I've needed to. They're easily my favorite bindings.








Arty50
Super Deluxe Ultra Log Join Date: May 2002
Location: Huh?
Posts: 2,509

Avoid 914s like the plague. I hated my pair and know several other skiers that have similar feelings about them.

I'm convinced there are two problems with them.

The first involves the wing adjustment screw. Old Sollies had two screws, one for each wing. The 912/4 series switched to a single screw. The damn thing is always backing out, and as a result you need to constantly readjust the toe wings. By constantly I'm talking once a week at the bare minimum.

The second problem is the new AFD. The old AFD allows release directly to the sides only. The new AFD sits on a ball pivot of sorts. In some prereleases, I could actually feel my toe rotate and pop out of the binding. In other words, when your foot angulates into a turn and pressures the AFD it releases because the rotation of your foot coincides with the rotation of the AFD on that stupid little ball.

916s are based on the old 997 toe. S900s are similar in their workings too. I feel they are superior bindings because they have two screws for the toe wings which seems to require less frequent adjustment; and also because they have a standard AFD that only releases along the horizontal plane.

As for race stock (916s, S900s DIN 9-16, 997s DIN 9-16) versus regular S900s and 997s, that's your call. Race stock binders are all metal which carries a trade off. They're practically indestructible, but weigh a bit more. I'm a big fan of 916s, and the weight doesn't matter much to me. I put over 40-50 days on my first pair without having to touch the wing adjustment. Metal screws seem to hold much better in metal wings. The second pair still hasn't needed an adjustment. The release on them is awesome. I've never prereleased, but have come out only when I've needed to. They're easily my favorite bindings.

Don't forget to check the toe height adjustment as well. My nephew was constantly pre-releasing from his bindings, even though he had the din settings cranked up. Upon closer inspection both the side wing and toe height adjustments were way off. They must have somehow worked themselves loose. He could easily wiggle his boot out of the binding.

^^ That's the most common problem with salomon bindings. They're great, so long as the screws stay where they're suppossed to, which doesn't appear to be very often. For my money (and knees) Look makes the simplest and most reliable binding available. No need to adjust toe height or wings. It's all automatic. The only thing I don't like about them is they're heavier than most, but I'd say it's worth it.

Back when I was racing I had the same problem with s900s. In three straight GS events my binding release and I DNF'ed. I have never had confidence in Salomons since...

Anyone with the 912/914 gripper should use low strength loctite on the the wing adjustment toe piece screw.

I was wondering whether that'd do the trick...

Been using salomon bindings for years and just bought a set of 912 Ti. Haven't had any problem but you guys now have me paranoid. If I remove the toe wing screw to apply locktite blue & then reinstall, do I then need to have the bindings checked by the shop or will the setting remain the same? I don't know how to adjust pressure.

I f'in hate my pair with solly's, even when adjusted correctly. I run the din at 9 (vs. 7 on my looks) so I don't prerelease on a regular basis in the trees. The day I demo'd solly's was ridiculous as well. Couldn't convince the demo guys to crank the DIN beyond 6 and I released about 20 times on the hill. No thanks, even markers are better than that, it at least takes lots of snow to get those to prerelease.

I've been on Sollies for the past five seasons and no complaints. I do run slightly higher DIN's (10+), and other than cracking a 912 Ti heel track, they have been fine. I have some Looks as well, but no real difference in my eyes. I will admit that I am an ex-Tech who inspects his bindings before skiing, so perhaps I avoid the toe loosening problem? I will admit that all race/green spring models are beefier and more retention oriented...not to mention expensive and hard to find...

my unsolicited two bits...

I wonder what the problem is. I have been skiing 900s, 912ti, and 914 FIS, bindings for years in the trees and bumps and have never had a pre-release problem. I am always careful to clean the snow off my boots before stepping in. I think I will check my wing adjustments just in case though. I hope Salomon would have issued a recall if there were a tolerance problem leading to loose wing screws in some manufacturing batchs. I think 0.5mm (0.020") is the spec for vetical boot clearance to the wing. The lateral adjustment requires the wing to be just touching I believe. Let me know if I am remembering this correctly.

Bought Salomons for the first time last season. Skiing yesterday things didn't seem right. Look down and my boot tips could move 1/4 inch due to a loose toe piece screw. Had them adjusted at the mountain shop.

Should these screws be locked? Locktite blue (is this too extreme?), or some other sealer to prevent the screws from loosening.

Any suggestions?

Mine Salomon toe wings need to be retightened after about ten days of skiing. I will try locktight.

dt

I have some new Salomon bindings. How do I tell if the top screw is tightened enough?

I just noticed some lateral play in one of my toes (912)..I will tighten it down and keep an eye on it.

The problem started when they went to the one screw adjustment on the toe piece. I got tired of continually tightening mine so I use low strength (blue) loctite.

I have the same problem. If I ski flat, groomed trails it's ok. If I ski a bump run, within the first 10 bumps the wings on the toe piece loosen up and I have to tighten them, only on 1 binding. I've not had a pre release problem even skiing at high speeds with wiggle in the toe but it's not a great feeling.

I was about to purchase new bindings for a new pair of skis, now I'm wondering if Salomon is a good choice, been on them all my life and it's hard to move away.

PS: Phil Pugliese who are you, we might know each other.

I blew out of the heels of some 912 ti rentals last winter and hit so hard on my shoulder I needed surgery. This was my first (and last) pair of Salomon's after several decades on Markers, which have been very durable and safe for me. I cranked the heels up and now it seems I have to loctite the toe!! Lew

Last week in Vail Salomon was having a demo day and I spoke with the techs about this issue. Not unpredictably, they commented that this occurrence is extremely rare and can be easily remedied by removing the horizontal toe wing bolt, applying a dab of locktite blue and reinserting.

I can't remove the bolt on my bindings to get Locktite in there (tried to do this a few days ago after getting really tired of checking and tightening the screw all the time).

How do you apply the Loctite? I was going to try it, but the screw won't come out? Lew

my 912 bindings got loose again after having has them adjusted by a tech at a great shop in Tahoe only two weeks ago

WARNING: make sure all of you who use 912/914 Salomon bindings check them R-E-G-U-L-A-R-L-Y

I've been told it is only a certain run of Salomon 912/914s that have the issue. Either out-of-spec threading or wrong threadlocker from the factory... something along those lines.

This would explain why I've never had an issue with my 912ti's but others require constant adjustment. As mentioned by others, purple locktite (or "low-strength" if using another brand) applied liberally should completely solve the problem. Use it for both wing and height adjustment screws.

I had 3 different models from 3 different years with the problem. My old 900s Equipes with an independent bolt on each wing did not have this problem. My new bindings all have one bolt. Itc ould be a design flaw associated with switching to a one bolt design or a manufacturing tolerance issue. The fact I had bindings from 3 different years have the same problem indicates to me that it is a design flaw. See my post: "Salomon Binding Design Or Manufacturing Defect Confirmed By My Experience Also" in this forum. By the way how do you put in a link to another post?

Yeah...ugh what he said..everything actually...I have had many a pair and still do..and have to check them periodically. Ya need to bring scredrivers....Wish they would fix that as I love the wide opening in the toe and their lightweight feeling.


[

quote=SquawMan]thought I'd throw out a warning for skiers out there with Salomon 912/914 bindings

this weekend, the bindings on my left ski (with a 912 binding) released unexpectedly and for no reason on a steep run at Squaw, even with the DIN set at 11

almost got creamed until I self arrested the fall and stopped short of a cliff

I noticed others on the TGR board complaining about their model 912/914 bindings for the same reasons (see below) and thought I'd put out a shout to you guys that ski with them to make sure to check the screws to be sure they are tight before doing anything crazy on them like hucking big cliffs

all fyi...stay safe out there





Arty50
Super Deluxe Ultra Log Join Date: May 2002
Location: Huh?
Posts: 2,509

Avoid 914s like the plague. I hated my pair and know several other skiers that have similar feelings about them.

I'm convinced there are two problems with them.

The first involves the wing adjustment screw. Old Sollies had two screws, one for each wing. The 912/4 series switched to a single screw. The damn thing is always backing out, and as a result you need to constantly readjust the toe wings. By constantly I'm talking once a week at the bare minimum.

The second problem is the new AFD. The old AFD allows release directly to the sides only. The new AFD sits on a ball pivot of sorts. In some prereleases, I could actually feel my toe rotate and pop out of the binding. In other words, when your foot angulates into a turn and pressures the AFD it releases because the rotation of your foot coincides with the rotation of the AFD on that stupid little ball.

916s are based on the old 997 toe. S900s are similar in their workings too. I feel they are superior bindings because they have two screws for the toe wings which seems to require less frequent adjustment; and also because they have a standard AFD that only releases along the horizontal plane.

As for race stock (916s, S900s DIN 9-16, 997s DIN 9-16) versus regular S900s and 997s, that's your call. Race stock binders are all metal which carries a trade off. They're practically indestructible, but weigh a bit more. I'm a big fan of 916s, and the weight doesn't matter much to me. I put over 40-50 days on my first pair without having to touch the wing adjustment. Metal screws seem to hold much better in metal wings. The second pair still hasn't needed an adjustment. The release on them is awesome. I've never prereleased, but have come out only when I've needed to. They're easily my favorite bindings.








Arty50
Super Deluxe Ultra Log Join Date: May 2002
Location: Huh?
Posts: 2,509

Avoid 914s like the plague. I hated my pair and know several other skiers that have similar feelings about them.

I'm convinced there are two problems with them.

The first involves the wing adjustment screw. Old Sollies had two screws, one for each wing. The 912/4 series switched to a single screw. The damn thing is always backing out, and as a result you need to constantly readjust the toe wings. By constantly I'm talking once a week at the bare minimum.

The second problem is the new AFD. The old AFD allows release directly to the sides only. The new AFD sits on a ball pivot of sorts. In some prereleases, I could actually feel my toe rotate and pop out of the binding. In other words, when your foot angulates into a turn and pressures the AFD it releases because the rotation of your foot coincides with the rotation of the AFD on that stupid little ball.

916s are based on the old 997 toe. S900s are similar in their workings too. I feel they are superior bindings because they have two screws for the toe wings which seems to require less frequent adjustment; and also because they have a standard AFD that only releases along the horizontal plane.

As for race stock (916s, S900s DIN 9-16, 997s DIN 9-16) versus regular S900s and 997s, that's your call. Race stock binders are all metal which carries a trade off. They're practically indestructible, but weigh a bit more. I'm a big fan of 916s, and the weight doesn't matter much to me. I put over 40-50 days on my first pair without having to touch the wing adjustment. Metal screws seem to hold much better in metal wings. The second pair still hasn't needed an adjustment. The release on them is awesome. I've never prereleased, but have come out only when I've needed to. They're easily my favorite bindings.[/quote]

Two ways:
1. Make sure you can barely slip a piece of paper between your boot toe and the binding plate. Used to be a credit card,,but more tech's I trust and interact with say..a piece of paper. You MUST check this periodically as this screw and the side screw back off...again, DEPENDING ON HOW HARD YOU SKI.

2. Make sure you, (while in the ski/boot) cannot wiggle the arms more than maybe a MM WHILE standing on the ski with your weight.

Hope this helps..have many pairs..always get this same advice from experienced techs I trust.

DB

Have a pair of Soly 914's that I am going to mount on my new Mojo 105's, I do have a similar problem with one of the toe pieces, but i believe if you crank the height adjustment screw down that it will solve most of the problems. Look at it this way, if you are periodically checking your bindings you might prevent an accident this way..... Still love my soly's, hate em all you want, or sell them to me...

One thing to consider - you mentioned you were running an 11 DIN on the 912, which is at the edge of it's effective scale IIRC. You may want to get into a bit more burly binding. With that siad, the 912 has been known to loosen - serious bummer. I use the Sali 810 and Z10 and have had no issues, with the DIN running about 7.5 - 8. I have some Look PX12's as well - they seem solid, as do the Tyrolia Fusions on my Elans. Of all of them, I am most impressed with Elan's these days. Five years ago, I wouldn't have even looked at a Tyrolia.

Credit card is a bit thick IMHO. Most use a business card. I have a Sali card, which is nice - it's .5mm thick.

Make sure you set the wings first - I draw them in until I feel a little resistance, then give it about another 1/4 turn, and then set the toe height. If you walk around in your boots alot, check them at least monthly. Unchecked boot wear can cause issues. That's one nice thing (and about the only) about the Sali Z toe piece.

I'll stamp my "confirmed" on this myth. I have a pair of 912s that I skied last year. Din is about 8.5 for me. The first time out on them after several hours I noticed a wobble/rattle in the left toe while riding up the lift. I just skied to the side at the top and tightened it up thinking I must have missed that adjustment when setting them up. After reading this thread I just went and checked them and it seems to have loosened up some again, though not horribly loose. I guess I'll check them by jiggling my feet a little on the lift periodically. They're on 186 cm Scream 10 Pilots that are pretty much my ski of choice for rocks so they don't get much action anyway. But knowing what I now know I won't buy any 912s and will instead recycle my older 877es and 977s when I need a binding for something that didn't come with an affordable binding option.

that's why salomon stopped making these bindings. the Z toe was a quick fix to get something on the market that wasn't causing all these problems. The 916's and 920's were built differently and therefore didn't have the same issue