Any old AFRC dudes out there?

#1

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8/22/04 at 10:20pm

SnowDog
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There was a magical window in time many years ago when run of the mill grunts stationed in Europe could, if lucky, escape the drudgery of regular military duty by applying for a special winter assignment to work a season in the Bavarian Alps at one of the military run Armed Forces Recreations Centers (AFRC) in Garmish-Partenkirchen, Berchtesgaden or Chiemsee.

Guys would turn in their M-16's and fatigues and head out for one of these story book resorts to spend a winter of wine, women and snow beyond what a 20 year old kid could even dream possible. They worked as instructors, patrolers, rental/ski shop workers and assorted other fun jobs, partied like wild men, and for a short time lived an extremely charmed existence.

That window of opportunity for active military guys has long since closed. The Bases are being turned back over to the Germans, there's no more patrol, and what few other positions still exist are filled by civilians. But the memories created back in those special days have lingered strong with those lucky enough to have garnered one of those highly coveted assignments. So much so that the guys who were there still stay in contact with yearly on snow get togethers, and through their own web site and message board.

Is there anybody here that served at one of those sites during their military service? This years get together is at Big Sky, I think in Febuary. The link to the AFRC web site is provided below.

http://www.afrcski.com/

#2

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8/23/04 at 7:31am

nolo
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AFRC is still going strong, SnowDog. AFRC Garmisch is a member school of Northern Rocky Mountain PSIA. Now the jobs are held by civilians and the military people and their families are guests.

A good friend of mine served his tour of duty as an AFRC patroller instead of going to Vietnam. Luck of the draw.

Follow me to EpicSki Academy

#3

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8/23/04 at 9:21am

Bryan
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Quote:

Originally Posted by nolo

AFRC is still going strong, SnowDog. AFRC Garmisch is a member school of Northern Rocky Mountain PSIA. Now the jobs are held by civilians and the military people and their families are guests.

A good friend of mine served his tour of duty as an AFRC patroller instead of going to Vietnam. Luck of the draw.

I'd say very, very lucky. I spent my last year in the Army, 1969-70, in Germany trying to get one of those jobs. Never did find out how to do it.

#4

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8/23/04 at 10:15am

SnowDog
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Yea Nolo, it's still there, but only in a pathetic semblance of its former self. The former American lodge at the base of the mountain is now surrounded by fencing and concertina wire, and vacationers have to present ID to the German military guard to gain access. There's a small civilian ski school still there to serve the now dwindling number of active service families in the country. Many of the support facilities and properties have been turned back over to the Germans as the operations have shrunk.

Bryan, it's too bad you weren't able to get down there. Those were the glory days. That was about the time Hank Kashiwa was down there racing for the Army. It was very tough for most guys to get released from regular duty to get one of those jobs.

#5

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7/19/05 at 9:54pm

Reisen
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While I never worked there, I visited the AFRC resorts many times!

#6

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7/20/05 at 7:48am

sibhusky
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Location: Northern Rockies
Post Count: 2,522

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowDog

There was a magical window in time many years ago when run of the mill grunts stationed in Europe could, if lucky, escape the drudgery of regular military duty by applying for a special winter assignment to work a season in the Bavarian Alps at one of the military run Armed Forces Recreations Centers (AFRC) in Garmish-Partenkirchen, Berchtesgaden or Chiemsee.

Guys would turn in their M-16's and fatigues and head out for one of these story book resorts to spend a winter of wine, women and snow beyond what a 20 year old kid could even dream possible. They worked as instructors, patrolers, rental/ski shop workers and assorted other fun jobs, partied like wild men, and for a short time lived an extremely charmed existence.

That window of opportunity for active military guys has long since closed. The Bases are being turned back over to the Germans, there's no more patrol, and what few other positions still exist are filled by civilians. But the memories created back in those special days have lingered strong with those lucky enough to have garnered one of those highly coveted assignments. So much so that the guys who were there still stay in contact with yearly on snow get togethers, and through their own web site and message board.

Is there anybody here that served at one of those sites during their military service? This years get together is at Big Sky, I think in Febuary. The link to the AFRC web site is provided below.

http://www.afrcski.com/

I think a couple of friends of ours were stationed there right before they moved here. However, I am wondering if YOU, listing "God's Country" as your current residence, might not, in fact, be them.... Wouldn't that be weird? Is this Gary?

There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad equipment.

#7

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7/21/05 at 8:17pm

boredserf
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Post Count: 15

My mom learned to ski at one of those places back in the sixties. I'm not sure which--it was the one with the 'glue vine' recipe. Good stuff, glue vine, we were allowed to drink it on ski trips.

#8

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7/21/05 at 9:16pm

sibhusky
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Glüh wein

There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad equipment.

#9

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7/21/05 at 9:33pm

Lisamarie
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Interesting. I wonder if any former 10th Mountain Division members got stationed there.

#10

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7/21/05 at 10:43pm

MTT
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I was in Germany Rhine Main 1978-1981 USAF - Inlisted

I applied to be Ski Instructor / Ski Patrol. After not hearing back for quite some time I asked my Commanding officer about it. (Im a real good skier from Tahoe) why not me??

He replied (On his toes in a very loud voice) that the USAF did not send me through 18 months of training and give me a T-Sec Siop Bling bling Clearance so that I could Ski!!!

I did Join the local Ski Club and spent alot of time in the Alps/ With the Club and even more on my own.

MTT
I miss those day. I was feed, entertained and got L***d what else is there??

#11

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7/23/05 at 5:22pm

jgiddyup
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Location: Virginia
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I was stationed in Italy 89-92 and spent 12 days in Austria and Garmisch. The hotel at the base was all civilians as well as the instructors, but the 2 guys at the MWR ski shop in town (where I bought some K2 5500's) were both on orders for independent duty for 3yrs. 1 was Army and 1 was Air Force and at the time I was thinking how in the world do you get that duty

BTW, It snowed almost the entire time we were there and Garmisch is a fabulous town. Great thread!!!

#12

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7/25/05 at 8:03am

tief schnee
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Chiemsee 97-99

I was a civilian, but I met my future wife there. She was Army. I also learned to wath out for AWAG. Those ladies were looking for trouble.

#13

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7/25/05 at 8:19am

Reisen
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MTT, my father was president of the Rhein Main ski club for a few years during the mid to late 70's. Not sure if he was still there in 78 or not. He probably would have been a Captain back then, David Duck.

#14

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7/25/05 at 8:35am

checkracer
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Each time I´m driving through Garmisch (for those who know: the direction Zugspitze, Eibsee, and Austria with Fernpass, or vice versa) I watch the barracks on the left/right. I have never asked what exactly this was but I think this must have been the facility.
The last time I saw it was yesterday evening.

#15

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7/26/05 at 2:08pm

LordHedgie
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Location: Mount Vernon, WA
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Never worked there, but took at least a week of lessons every winter from 1989-1991 from AFRC. In the summer we'd sail boats, in the winter we'd ski.

#16

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7/26/05 at 7:59pm

Rick
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Post Count: 5,068

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTT

I was in Germany Rhine Main 1978-1981 USAF - Inlisted

I applied to be Ski Instructor / Ski Patrol. After not hearing back for quite some time I asked my Commanding officer about it. (Im a real good skier from Tahoe) why not me??

He replied (On his toes in a very loud voice) that the USAF did not send me through 18 months of training and give me a T-Sec Siop Bling bling Clearance so that I could Ski!!!

I did Join the local Ski Club and spent alot of time in the Alps/ With the Club and even more on my own.

MTT
I miss those day. I was feed, entertained and got L***d what else is there??

Hey, MTT, I was stationed in Garmish for 2 winters between 1977 and 1979. Bet we came close to crossing paths. Did you know anyone from your base who worked down in Garmish? One of my best buds in Garmish was there TDY from Rhine Main.

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#17

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7/26/05 at 8:06pm

Rick
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Quote:

Originally Posted by checkracer

Each time I´m driving through Garmisch (for those who know: the direction Zugspitze, Eibsee, and Austria with Fernpass, or vice versa) I watch the barracks on the left/right. I have never asked what exactly this was but I think this must have been the facility.
The last time I saw it was yesterday evening.

Yep, that was where we lived, Checkracer. If those walls could talk! We didn't live a typical military life while stationed in Garmish back then. (Big understatement)

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#18

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7/26/05 at 9:40pm

checkracer
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Yep, that was where we lived, Checkracer. If those walls could talk! We didn't live a typical military life while stationed in Garmish back then. (Big understatement)

I can imagine the life big happy American boys had there.

(I spent my year in the army playing volleyball and skiing 50 days. It was the old fu**** army (extremely poorly) trained to be your enemy but under the circumstances a year to survive fairly well.)

#19

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7/26/05 at 10:18pm

Rick
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Quote:

Originally Posted by checkracer

(I spent my year in the army playing volleyball and skiing 50 days.

What did you do on skis in the army? Was that during off time, or on duty time?

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#20

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7/26/05 at 10:23pm

Rick
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Just think Checkracer, for a time you and I were sitting at the opposite ends of a rifle. Crazy world.

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#21

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7/26/05 at 10:24pm

ssh
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Location: Boulder, Colorado, USA
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Quote:

Originally Posted by checkracer

I can imagine the life big happy American boys had there.

(I spent my year in the army playing volleyball and skiing 50 days. It was the old fu**** army (extremely poorly) trained to be your enemy but under the circumstances a year to survive fairly well.)

Unbelievable! Here we are, on the Internet across the world from each other, former "enemies" now sharing a common love and passion.

This is even better than the "bought tires for Mom" thread in the Lounge. It reminds me of the day I received the e-mail from inside the Russian Parliament building during the Coup. The world has changed... Thank God!

Stephen S. Hultquist
Insatiable learner, Truth seeker, Vocabulary stretcher, Friend
I share my learning through speaking, a book, guiding, writing, and consulting/coaching
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#22

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7/26/05 at 11:50pm

checkracer
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My military volleyball was official, the skiing was not. They refused to let me participate in races and I had to do it AWOL. It was not so complicated, the whole "Czechoslovak People´s Army" was an incredible mess. We were only lucky the Cold War remained "cold" and hasn´t become real. I can´t imagine any real action. Those hardly trained 20-year-old boys who were forced to spend two years there by law and deeply hated the army for the two years it was stealing of their lives would have been no match for the pros od the professional armies. The only way would have been the quantity (people as "cannon fodder" - I mentioned this in some other thread a few days ago) and most probably nuclear weapons. Our part of Europe was the bumper zone anyway, to be destroeyd so that the (Russian) east survived...
Would have been a tragicomedy. Officially I was some anti-aircraft guy but have hardly seen the (antiquated anyway) weapons I was supposed to use...
We just missed each other

by two years Rick. My year was July 1975 through June 1976.

Yes, it´s crazy. It´s the same with the Germans. I have lots of ski friends there while, as a university student, I had to undergo military training (which saved a year in the real army after graduation) where we many times "destroyed" our traditional enemy, the 258th (I still remember!!!) batallion of the Bundeswehr.
They were like computer games, the Germans. Totally annihilated but ready to fight and be beaten again next time...

The change to freely chatting about our beloved skiing is simply incredible and I am and always will be happy to have gotten the chance to experience this.

#23

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7/27/05 at 11:09am

Cornbread
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I had often heard of GI’s getting assigned to cush jobs in places like Garmisch before I even arrived in Germany. So the day I flew into Rhein Main Airbase in 1986 to begin inprocessing, I began enquiring. I was told those positions were filled at the unit level. When I was assigned to the 8th ID and then my company, I again asked about them but was told that those jobs were not available to Infantry soldiers. Looking back on it, I’m glad I never pursued life as a GI skier further. The men, unit, and duty station I served with in A Co 3/8 Inf ended up being the best in my brief 5 year Army career. Besides, I was fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of the skiing opportunities at G-P and many other areas in the Alps during the two great years I spent in Deutschland.

Checkracer, your comments about the Czech Army bring back fond memories of my days spent in the field. To pass the boredom while training near the Iron Curtain at places like Grafenwoehr, Hoenfels, or Wildflicken, we’d tune our radios to different channels and pick up Soviet and Czech communications. Of course, we had no idea what anyone was saying but we always got a big kick out of listening to our “enemies”. I find your comments about your training and soldiers’ attitudes very interesting. I think your experience was not very different from the West German and French soldiers I trained with. I found that even though the Bundeswehr soldiers were highly motivated and well trained, there was a feeling of resentment towards their mandatory service and even a little bit towards the Americans that occupied their land. Still, we worked and trained very well together. The French, on the other hand, were extremely laid back, drinking their wine rations while in the field and never even firing their main weapons on their tanks and fighting vehicles. That’s not French bashing, as I had some great times training and partying with the French as well but it’s clear some countries had other priorities than spending the largest percentage of their GDP on military expenditures. Good for them.

I’m thankful we never got to face one another in hostility along the Fulda Gap. Although, I must admit at the time, there were many of us young impressionable Infantry and Combat Arms soldiers that wanted to put our training to the test. Silly kids.

Peace.

#24

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7/27/05 at 12:01pm

ssh
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So, Rick, SnowDog, you others, how about a get-together at the ESA?

Stephen S. Hultquist
Insatiable learner, Truth seeker, Vocabulary stretcher, Friend
I share my learning through speaking, a book, guiding, writing, and consulting/coaching
I travel a lot. If you'd like to follow my journeys, I'm on Twitter

#25

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7/27/05 at 12:21pm

checkracer
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Cornbread:
I don´t know enough to psychologize but I think that the Germans still had the war trauma which makes them up to now such big peacemakers.
I can´t speak for the French but it may be the somewhat relaxed mentality influenced by the south, wine, wives,...

Our infamous former army: you could not expect dedication and commitment from young people not wanting to be there and not even proud of the country they were supposed to die for: it was a country controled by domestic communists and Russian soldiers, a country doing blindly what Moscow said and wanted. The lack of identification with the land, nation and flag is what you Americans probably never can really understand but it was the trauma here.
The "professional" soldiers here were mostly fat lazybones unable to move faster, with no experience in "action" and good only at yelling at those mandatory cannonfodder would-be soldiers.

How good the silly kids and maniac generals didn´t get their chance. We know how precarious it was in the 60s and 70s.

#26

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7/27/05 at 3:49pm

MTT
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Risen/ Rick

It was such a long time ago. I remember faces mostly but not names. I never skied @ Garmish. The ski club never went there? And when I traveled on my own (Frequently) I usually went to Switzerland. (Murren) Almost all the time, I made some ski friends there, who made it very easy to go and stay there. Winter Skiing/ Summer Hang gliding
I did save allot of stuff from that time/ Old Ski club paperwork Lift tickets / Trail maps/ Memorabilia stuff/ I will dig it out one of these days to jog my memory. I got two and a half winters in down there, skied allot (Cuz that’s what I do)
MTT

#27

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7/27/05 at 3:57pm

MTT
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I used to sit in a POD in that back of a Cargo Plane

C130
We would acidentaly (On purpose) fly into East German air space, then just listen and record.
I wonder who we do that to now??
MTT

#28

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7/27/05 at 5:38pm

MTT
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Cornbrad:
Wildflicken? They had a Monistary/ Brewery there that had the best bear I have ever had. Brings back good memories. I would like to go back there sometime and see that area (Without the fence)

MTT

#29

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10/13/09 at 6:39pm

UTAHJOE
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Hi

I was part of the lucky few 1975 1976 BGarden ski patrol it was a great time I wish that I had a few phone numbers from the old group we had a wonderful shared experience lots of beer night skiing under the full Moon would like to hear any one from that time and place..

take care

Joe salazar hdjoe513n.com

old park city National Ski patrol 1977 to1982

#30

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11/4/09 at 5:10pm

sgtbily
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Snowdog;

Not sure what your real name is but I am one of those "old guys," and boy I thought I was lucky then. I know today I was damn lucky. I was in B'gaden, 72-74, and again as a civilian ski instructor from 75-80. I lived in Berchtesgaden from 88-94 as a civilian/ Army Reservist.

Sgtbilly (aka') Bill Sutherland

"Live every day like its your last, and have no regrets doing it!"

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